I feel rather icky saying this - both because of my dangly genitals and my status a long time reader, first time caller - but I feel compelled to relate a pearl of wisdom that I heard on a high school field trip:
"Equal rights means equal fights."
I sincerely hope that nobody takes this to mean that I condone violence against defenseless women, real or imagined. In fact, I have a big fucking problem with it (and sorry if I already sound like an ignorant douche setting up a giant "but").
BUT, from what I can tell from my absurd amount of television watching experience, the violence I see against women on network TV often has to do with the women on the shows being bad-ass motherfuckers, which I mean in the most fawning, ass-kicking, action hero-y type way.
Yes, there are some shows that seem to exploit the victimization of women for entertainment (SVU par example, or Claire and her ability to be a superhuman punching bag "Heroes"), but more often than not, I see more and more strong women that resemble the awesome ladies that I grew up with. Specifically, the women who could, and would, routinely kick my ass in my martial arts classes, even when I was a 2nd dan black belt.
Finally I get to see these incredibly strong women mixing it up on television! These days, it even extends beyond Joss Whedon shows! (though I must say that I do love me some Buffy, Faith, Echo and Zoe) I mean, women are finally being portrayed as the action heroes I always knew they were, and frankly, I feel as though it would be a disservice to the gender to not show them rolling with the requisite punches just as well - and often better - than their male counterparts.
I see this as cultural progress. I'm truly overjoyed to see that we've moved on from the days of glamorous, aloof, and pristine action-heroines on shows like Charlie's Angels. It seems to me that we've finally embraced the idea that women can be just as rough and tumble as men, and I think this fact is probably buried in the deeper context of the study's data.
The 29% increase in beatings? Women are now portrayed as engaging in fisticuffs. The 18% in credible threats? Women are both steadfast heroes and Machiavellian villains, and both get threatened by their enemies. 11% in shootings? Cop shows have enjoyed a huge boom as of late, and the female officers are shown doing (gross exaggerations of) their jobs.
From my small corner of the infosphere, I see violent, yet inspiring wonders on network TV: Echo nearly killing Agent Ballard in an intense kitchen brawl; Sarah Walker kicking ass and taking names (and blows) on Chuck; Det. Beckett routinely saving Castle's ass in shoot-outs. If I look to cable TV, I see Wendy beating the everliving fuck out of Cartman after he insulted her, then threatened her; Starbuck routinely pulverizing men in boxing matches; Sweet Dee taking the same physical and emotional abuse as the rest of The Gang on "It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia".
I bet if you looked close at these statistics you'd see a pattern emerge concerning crime dramas. They're a huge trend in prime time right now and have been for a while.
I usually refer to CSI as SCI: Sexy Crime Investigation. Almost all the story arcs revolve around heterosexual sex and homicide. Dead naked women everywhere! With flashbacks to the sex crime as it happened! Spin offs! It just gets worse and worse. At least Mad Men frames violence against women in a manner that makes the women sympathetic. CSI (and it's imitators) always show women being punished in some way for being sexual/deviant/false. It promotes violence against women AND rape culture and it's just not cool at all. #violenceagainstwomen
If you read the linked articles, you'll see that the claimed "120 percent" rise is a complete misuse of statistics. Out of about 4,000 total violent acts during a two-month period (a number that has barely changed in five years), about 200 in 2004 were specifically directed against women, versus about 400 this year.
In real terms that's a rise from about 5 percent to about 10 percent of the total acts of violence. (The rest, presumably, were directed at men, children, and people of unknown gender.)
.
I personally think there are too many cop shows that focus on depictions of graphic violence, including the "Law & Orders"s and "CSI"s. And the fact that "Dollhouse" is essentially a show about sex slavery pretty much ruins it for me, even if the ultimate goal is the end the practice. (The survey only looked at broadcast TV, not cable, so references to "Mad Men" and "Dexter" don't apply.)
But it would be a mistake to read too much into this study, which just counts up individual acts of violence with no context, and makes a big deal about the fact that one segment of the whole -- violence directed against women -- has gone up from a tiny percentage to a slightly larger but still very small percentage of the whole. #violenceagainstwomen
Both law and order sexy victims unit and all the CSI shows feature a lot of graphic violence against women. it's why I won't watch them any more. #violenceagainstwomen
Part of it is that violence in general is more common on television nowadays. HBO and other premium cable channels have figured out that they can "get away" with an awful lot, especially if it furthers the plot. The Sopranos and Rome featured mind-boggling amounts of violence--and most of the victims were male. Granted, if you're going to make dramatic series about mobsters and Roman centurions, there's going to be a lot of blood by definition. Neither of those shows would have been half as good without the brutality (and the sex). That said, I can get amputations and nekkidness galore in a slasher flick. I can't get Kevin McKidd raising his eyebrow just so in exasperation in a slasher flick, nor can I get James Gandolfini radiating menace just by sitting there. The violence serves the plot and the characters, and that's what I'm actually watching for. (That, and another shot of Ray Stevenson in a kilt. And Mark Purefoy. And Kevin McKidd. And Ciaran Hinds. Mmm.)
Many regular cable and network shows are interpreting "pushing the envelope" as a substitute for "quality writing, acting, and directing" as a result. They can't do it with sex, so they're doing it with violence instead. #violenceagainstwomen
What about Dollhouse? I love Joss Whedon, and this show is my favorite geekout right now. I am realizing something that makes me uneasy. Women get the shit kicked out of them ALOT on Whedon shows. Sure, they usually have a comeback and there is some satisfaction is seeing them kick ass. But. it only comes after watching minutes of them getting beat, like really, really beat. This is especially so on Dollhouse which is constantly putting women in victim mode. Last Friday's episode was trying to work the dynamic it out, but it's unclear where the exploitation ends and the commenting on violence begins? #violenceagainstwomen
@tracylynn: An awful lot of Dollhouse episodes seem to consist of people--often men, but not always--doing awful things to women (and occasionally men, like Victor). I get what Whedon is aiming for, I think, but I need a higher ratio of female ass-whupping of evildoers. The maternal episode from two weeks ago had me in tears. #violenceagainstwomen
@tracylynn: This is why I loved Alias so much. The dudes who had it out for Sydney specifically because she was a woman were way outnumbered by well-rounded male characters and ass-kicking females. I have a lot of issues with that show (especially because the quality dropped so drastically after season 2), but I think I'll always be a raving Sydney Bristow fangirl. #violenceagainstwomen
@tracylynn: I think it's in whether the the violence is condoned or not. And in Whedon shows, it's definitely not. Dollhouse, like Buffy and Angel and Firefly, have always shown violence against women as unequivocably negative. Violence against women is reality, and it's slightly hyper reality on the show. But it's never played, to me, as okay.
With Dollhouse, the intent is showing the brutality of that world and by comparison, ours. The Dollhouse and what it does to the dolls is meant to be creepy and to show the exploitation for what it is. A lot of people think that kind of scenario would be a harmless fantasy. But they're showing that it's anything but. #violenceagainstwomen
One of my lieutenants who has 40 years on the job (I'm a civilian in law enforcement) surprised me recently by saying how many television shows he refuses to watch because he just can't stand the constant brutalization of women that he sees. He's hardly a feminist, but I was pretty proud of him at that moment because, in the conversation that ensued, he seemed to get the concept of rape culture. I only wish more cops would. Some of the men I work with are terrible but some of them really do understand. Unfortunately, some is not enough. #violenceagainstwomen
I think the more important question is how is this violence portrayed? Is it portrayed as a positive or ordinary thing? If it is, it' s a major problem. #violenceagainstwomen
@MargaretMoony: I don't agree that it entirely comes down to such violence being portrayed as "positive" or "ordinary." There is an aesthetic quality to brutalizing women. Even when such attacks and violence are clearly depicted as negative acts, it is often the case the such acts are framed in such a way (e.g., having a woman naked or in little clothing for no necessary reason) which ... I'm failing to think of a better word, but, aestheticizes violence against the female body, still making women effectively objects of sex or beauty and in, some ways, romanticizing the notion of such violence. #violenceagainstwomen
I don't think I really get the point of "showcasing violence against women in TV series is a good idea because at least people know what's going on and can discuss it".
To be honest, I think the topic will be way better portrayed in well-done* documentaries and commercials that DIRECTLY talk about it, explain why it's wrong, and what we can do to help.
I don't think we can really get people to care/internalize the whole problem through TV series. It can even have the opposite effect of, as you have said, normalizing the whole thing.
My 2 cents.
PS. And by "well-done" I mean something interesting, not overly graphic, that presents facts and data, that gets to the people; i.e. something cool and classy (not something reminiscent of a lame reality show).
I wish there was somebody categorizing the violence, though, you know?
Like, if domestic violence is an issue in a show, but it's dealt with in an intelligent way, I don't think I'd see that as bad . . .
I don't know if I'm making any sense. But I can tell you that being on the IMDB boards for "Dexter" are absolutely appalling- people (they can't all be trolls, can they?) saying that Dexter needs to "go a little Paul" on his wife (Paul was her abusive ex-husband), and that she needs to be beaten, abused, or killed because she nags, can be overbearing or even- gasp!- didn't attend to the baby when it was crying and Dexter specifically said "I've got it." and went to take care of him. It's enough to make me insane. #violenceagainstwomen
I seem to recall a number of situations on Family Guy where Meg and or Lois are smacked around or killed. I know it's just Family Guy, but it seems to me that this particular show has many more young viewers than Mad Men or True Blood type shows. It's a little bit unsettling to me how killing or attacking Meg is the running punchline. #violenceagainstwomen
@onavolta: Some of scenes in the first season of True Blood with the serial killer just scared the shit out of me. When Sookie was in the bar alone with him and could see his thoughts about the other women he killed?
I also thought that scene where Jason pretends to be a vampire to scare Dawn was SO creepy. She was genuinely terrified and he went along with it for far too long. #violenceagainstwomen
As a survivor I tend to avoid these types of shows. That Mad Men screen grab was enough to disturb me and bring back the episode. I still hope he dies in 'Nam. #violenceagainstwomen
@Beets.Go.On is the Fat Yogini: Far too many triggers. I've got a hand on the remote at all times-- ready to fast forward or change the channel. Sometimes things are just too familiar. #violenceagainstwomen
@sybann: Funnily enough I can watch SVU any time despite being a survivor because the emphasis is on helping the victim, but this screengrab...very triggering.
I think it's because I can't completely relate to the somewhat sensational aspect in SVU (and certainly not to caring law enforcement), but Joan's face? Far too close to home. #violenceagainstwomen
It's not really just about violent acts or raw numbers. It's about how violence against women is portrayed - more often than not, while a scene of a violent act against a man is cut to black pretty quick, violent acts against women make for extended scenes which are sexualized and sensationalized. Not to even go into how violence being more accepted to show in media than sex has made for violence serving as a substitute for sex. If she was raped, at least it means she wasn't a whore.
/bitter bitter bitter. I watch plenty of shows that involve violence, and I wouldn't want to analyze it in terms of raw numbers of incidents of violent acts because a) women are victims of violence, and that can be portrayed thoughtfully... sometimes, and b) if a woman is going to be an action hero ala Sarah Connor or, well, any male action hero like Jack Bauer, it means getting beat up once in a while. And sometimes shows manage to even not bring in some sexual component.
But that being said, I've quit watching shows over the sheer amount of exploitation and outright misogyny in their portrayal of violence against women. I don't know if it's gotten worse, but I will say it definitely doesn't feel like it's gotten better. #violenceagainstwomen
Keep in mind, people -- the Parents' Television Council is a whacko far-right outfit with maybe less than a half-dozen members who actually do the work? (Or at least, that's the figure I remember reading)
It's possible that some of this is on account of their employing different people with different subjective judgments today and back in 2004. #violenceagainstwomen
@CrapCommentFromADude: Oh dude, I can't believe I missed the fact that this was from the PTC. That's the same group that freaks out over anything that isn't doesn't meet their heterosexual, Christian, Republican standards, so I am less inclined to give their report much in the way of creedence.
I would love to see a similar report issued by a feminist advocacy group. #violenceagainstwomen
The PTC, and similar groups, have been trying to get us to believe in a causal relationship between fictional violence and r/l violence for years.
Facts clearly refute any such relationship. Violent crime has been in decline for decades which access to violent films, television, and video games is the highest it has ever been.
I support the efforts to encourage writers to be more creative with their efforts to heighten drama and elicit sympathy rather than dipping into the same old well of the battered woman, etc. But the specious reasoning of groups like these undermines genuine efforts to make a positive change in fictional media of all sorts. #violenceagainstwomen
@logruszed: I don't think it increases the rate of RL violence, it decreases the rate in which people give a shit about RL violence. (Desensitization infuriates me like nothing else.) #violenceagainstwomen
@LBB: I would give the idea that it desensitizes people some credence, but as a vet who has been active with helping other vets deal with PTSD related problems and has done a bit of research into this as a historic issue my experience does not indicate that people are less sensitive to r/w violence.
If anything a lot of studies indicate men my age or younger (38) are having a harder time coming home from war than previous generations did, and this i with the benefit of more modern understanding of PTSD and training which is supposed to minimize the impact. #violenceagainstwomen
10/29/09
"Equal rights means equal fights."
I sincerely hope that nobody takes this to mean that I condone violence against defenseless women, real or imagined. In fact, I have a big fucking problem with it (and sorry if I already sound like an ignorant douche setting up a giant "but").
BUT, from what I can tell from my absurd amount of television watching experience, the violence I see against women on network TV often has to do with the women on the shows being bad-ass motherfuckers, which I mean in the most fawning, ass-kicking, action hero-y type way.
Yes, there are some shows that seem to exploit the victimization of women for entertainment (SVU par example, or Claire and her ability to be a superhuman punching bag "Heroes"), but more often than not, I see more and more strong women that resemble the awesome ladies that I grew up with. Specifically, the women who could, and would, routinely kick my ass in my martial arts classes, even when I was a 2nd dan black belt.
Finally I get to see these incredibly strong women mixing it up on television! These days, it even extends beyond Joss Whedon shows! (though I must say that I do love me some Buffy, Faith, Echo and Zoe) I mean, women are finally being portrayed as the action heroes I always knew they were, and frankly, I feel as though it would be a disservice to the gender to not show them rolling with the requisite punches just as well - and often better - than their male counterparts.
I see this as cultural progress. I'm truly overjoyed to see that we've moved on from the days of glamorous, aloof, and pristine action-heroines on shows like Charlie's Angels. It seems to me that we've finally embraced the idea that women can be just as rough and tumble as men, and I think this fact is probably buried in the deeper context of the study's data.
The 29% increase in beatings? Women are now portrayed as engaging in fisticuffs. The 18% in credible threats? Women are both steadfast heroes and Machiavellian villains, and both get threatened by their enemies. 11% in shootings? Cop shows have enjoyed a huge boom as of late, and the female officers are shown doing (gross exaggerations of) their jobs.
From my small corner of the infosphere, I see violent, yet inspiring wonders on network TV: Echo nearly killing Agent Ballard in an intense kitchen brawl; Sarah Walker kicking ass and taking names (and blows) on Chuck; Det. Beckett routinely saving Castle's ass in shoot-outs. If I look to cable TV, I see Wendy beating the everliving fuck out of Cartman after he insulted her, then threatened her; Starbuck routinely pulverizing men in boxing matches; Sweet Dee taking the same physical and emotional abuse as the rest of The Gang on "It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia".
And you know what? I rejoice. #violenceagainstwomen
10/29/09
I usually refer to CSI as SCI: Sexy Crime Investigation. Almost all the story arcs revolve around heterosexual sex and homicide. Dead naked women everywhere! With flashbacks to the sex crime as it happened! Spin offs! It just gets worse and worse. At least Mad Men frames violence against women in a manner that makes the women sympathetic. CSI (and it's imitators) always show women being punished in some way for being sexual/deviant/false. It promotes violence against women AND rape culture and it's just not cool at all. #violenceagainstwomen
10/28/09
If you read the linked articles, you'll see that the claimed "120 percent" rise is a complete misuse of statistics. Out of about 4,000 total violent acts during a two-month period (a number that has barely changed in five years), about 200 in 2004 were specifically directed against women, versus about 400 this year.
In real terms that's a rise from about 5 percent to about 10 percent of the total acts of violence. (The rest, presumably, were directed at men, children, and people of unknown gender.)
.
I personally think there are too many cop shows that focus on depictions of graphic violence, including the "Law & Orders"s and "CSI"s. And the fact that "Dollhouse" is essentially a show about sex slavery pretty much ruins it for me, even if the ultimate goal is the end the practice. (The survey only looked at broadcast TV, not cable, so references to "Mad Men" and "Dexter" don't apply.)
But it would be a mistake to read too much into this study, which just counts up individual acts of violence with no context, and makes a big deal about the fact that one segment of the whole -- violence directed against women -- has gone up from a tiny percentage to a slightly larger but still very small percentage of the whole. #violenceagainstwomen
10/28/09
10/28/09
Many regular cable and network shows are interpreting "pushing the envelope" as a substitute for "quality writing, acting, and directing" as a result. They can't do it with sex, so they're doing it with violence instead. #violenceagainstwomen
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
With Dollhouse, the intent is showing the brutality of that world and by comparison, ours. The Dollhouse and what it does to the dolls is meant to be creepy and to show the exploitation for what it is. A lot of people think that kind of scenario would be a harmless fantasy. But they're showing that it's anything but. #violenceagainstwomen
10/28/09
10/29/09
Whenever I get sad, I am going to try and remember that there is a cop out there who thinks this. #violenceagainstwomen
10/28/09
10/29/09
10/29/09
10/28/09
To be honest, I think the topic will be way better portrayed in well-done* documentaries and commercials that DIRECTLY talk about it, explain why it's wrong, and what we can do to help.
I don't think we can really get people to care/internalize the whole problem through TV series. It can even have the opposite effect of, as you have said, normalizing the whole thing.
My 2 cents.
PS. And by "well-done" I mean something interesting, not overly graphic, that presents facts and data, that gets to the people; i.e. something cool and classy (not something reminiscent of a lame reality show).
10/28/09
Like, if domestic violence is an issue in a show, but it's dealt with in an intelligent way, I don't think I'd see that as bad . . .
I don't know if I'm making any sense. But I can tell you that being on the IMDB boards for "Dexter" are absolutely appalling- people (they can't all be trolls, can they?) saying that Dexter needs to "go a little Paul" on his wife (Paul was her abusive ex-husband), and that she needs to be beaten, abused, or killed because she nags, can be overbearing or even- gasp!- didn't attend to the baby when it was crying and Dexter specifically said "I've got it." and went to take care of him. It's enough to make me insane. #violenceagainstwomen
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
I also thought that scene where Jason pretends to be a vampire to scare Dawn was SO creepy. She was genuinely terrified and he went along with it for far too long. #violenceagainstwomen
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
I think it's because I can't completely relate to the somewhat sensational aspect in SVU (and certainly not to caring law enforcement), but Joan's face? Far too close to home. #violenceagainstwomen
10/28/09
/bitter bitter bitter. I watch plenty of shows that involve violence, and I wouldn't want to analyze it in terms of raw numbers of incidents of violent acts because a) women are victims of violence, and that can be portrayed thoughtfully... sometimes, and b) if a woman is going to be an action hero ala Sarah Connor or, well, any male action hero like Jack Bauer, it means getting beat up once in a while. And sometimes shows manage to even not bring in some sexual component.
But that being said, I've quit watching shows over the sheer amount of exploitation and outright misogyny in their portrayal of violence against women. I don't know if it's gotten worse, but I will say it definitely doesn't feel like it's gotten better. #violenceagainstwomen
10/28/09
It's possible that some of this is on account of their employing different people with different subjective judgments today and back in 2004. #violenceagainstwomen
10/28/09
I would love to see a similar report issued by a feminist advocacy group. #violenceagainstwomen
10/28/09
Facts clearly refute any such relationship. Violent crime has been in decline for decades which access to violent films, television, and video games is the highest it has ever been.
I support the efforts to encourage writers to be more creative with their efforts to heighten drama and elicit sympathy rather than dipping into the same old well of the battered woman, etc. But the specious reasoning of groups like these undermines genuine efforts to make a positive change in fictional media of all sorts. #violenceagainstwomen
10/28/09
10/28/09
If anything a lot of studies indicate men my age or younger (38) are having a harder time coming home from war than previous generations did, and this i with the benefit of more modern understanding of PTSD and training which is supposed to minimize the impact. #violenceagainstwomen