Does anyone else feel like they're constantly struggling to overcome the racism they were taught growing up?
I'm white. I grew up in an Irish middle-class family outside Boston. The n-word was used frequently; n-jokes were told. I was taught black people were different and dangerous.
And the bad thoughts sometimes pop into my head. I don't agree with them, but they're ingrained.
And I feel like an asshole.
I have tried all my life to get those thoughts out. As well as thoughts about Latinos, and Jews, and...I don't know, anyone who is not Irish.
@NewsBunny: You don't sound like a jerk at all. You sound honest. We all have ingrained prejudices, some more deeply ingrained than others. The fact that you admit yours and work to change it puts you way ahead of the curve.
And the reason? "There have been few broad cultural precedents for what she represents." Translation: we haven't seen enough characters like Michelle on TV!
Actually Anna N., this is not too far off. I'm not sure why you are so incredulous.
Dr. Mae Jemison, the first black woman to go into space has mentioned the influence of seeing actress Nichelle Nichols (Lt. Uhura on Star Trek) on television as a little girl. She has mentioned her as an inspiration time and time again. Oprah Winfrey has mentioned how seeing Diana Ross and the Supremes on Ed Sullivan inspired her as a child.
You have to remember that there was a time (as late as the 1960s) when some black artists were not even pictured on their own record albums because the powers that be assumed that white people would not buy the records. An example is the Isley Brothers.
Also, I would recommend Veronica Chamber's book "Having It All: Black Women and Success" where Claire Huxtable is specifically mentioned as an inspiration for many real professional black women:
Twenty-first century black women draw their inspiration from a wide range of sources: Claire Huxtable to Audrey Hepburn, snowboarding to basketball, Gloria Steinem to bell hooks. They choose what they like. Yet they are misunderstood by mainstream America and lack an accurate portrayal in the media of their lives.
@Anovelista: I love that you mentioned Dr. Jemison. She is one of my daughter's heroes. I don't understand why more people don't know about her, and I have the troubling sensation that it's because we already have our Official Black Women Heroes: Harriet Tubman, Rosa Parks, and Oprah -- why find more? (Without any disrespect to those women, of course)
@thesciencegirl: Oh man, no, she drove me nuts. Really and truly! I felt like she was constantly trying to shame him into "good" behavior, and he was constantly trying to put stuff over on her, and UGH, it made me crazy. The whole "grown men are really naughty little boys" thing. I love Bill Cosby -- I grew up listening to his stand up on LPs (have I mentioned that I'm old?) and can still quote his old routines at will -- so I still watched most of the time, but man oh man. She reallyreally bugged me!
"what [people] do not see on a regular basis, they assume to be rare or even nonexistent" <--I wouldn't dismiss that statement at all. We've complained about societal problems where public ignorance is a product of this phenomenon, haven't we? That's certainly a problem in the whole "pro-life" versus "pro-abortion" public debate, for example, or homophobia...how many problems are misrepresented (or underrepresented) in the media, allowing people to make faulty judgments or to ignore a big problem that may affect them, too (not just a negligible group)?
Not that you can always blame people or be surprised...there are plenty of things I was "vague" about until I was exposed to information about it time and time again.
That said...yeah, it makes me kind of sad and I find it embarrassing that (as the media has it) the public is shocked by the Obamas.
I wonder how many observers shocked by the "eloquence" and social/educational mobility of the Obamas have gone to college, or gone to college with some racial diversity.
If nothing else...there are plenty of nonwhite authors and scientists I can think of that are on cable news, the Colbert Report or the Daily Show (younger audience, I guess), and the astrophysicist Neil Degrasse Tyson has been on everything from Colbert to Conan...for such an obscure field, he's a fun guest wherever he goes.
@maude_flanders: Nearly every member of my family has gotten at least a bachelor's degree, and they are all positively gobsmacked at both of the Obamas' ability to form complete and meaningful sentences. That may have more to do with attending mostly white colleges 40 years ago, though.
@la.donna.pietra: I can understand that...considering how relatively few non-whites (and individuals of any race) had access to higher education than today, maybe they've unconsciously developed a notion based on what things were like when they were in college, even if things have changed since then.
@maude_flanders: It's not even an issue of college so much as it is deliberate and rigorous self-segregation. My parents made a very particular point of moving to a small town when I was five. If you asked them why, they'd say that they wanted me to be safe, that the schools were good, and that they wanted me to grow up in a small-town environment. The upshot was that I knew one black person growing up. When I went to college, I met possibly 10 black people the entire time I was there--and this was at UC Santa Cruz between 1994-1998. A wide swath of America lives this way and is quite happy about it. They don't wear swastikas or white hoods, and they would deny being racists with their last breath--it's a lot more internalized.
True story: through an organization I volunteer with, I was at the local jail working with the women inmates. Another woman volunteer, a 60-something white woman came up to me afterwards and said to me "You seem like a pretty smart gal, you should go back to school and do something good with your life." Huh??
After I told her that I have a BA, and that I was in grad school, the look of shock on her face spoke volumes. It was as if she'd seen the yeti, right here in San Francisco.
@buzzgirl: That is an amazing story. But I'd also add - not to deny her tacit racism, since that seems pretty clear - that at a lot of hourly jobs I held during college (mostly pink collar, secretarial type stuff), I'd get older women begging me to stay in school, not to let my boyfriend knock me up and settle for a family, etc, etc. I'm a white woman from an upper middle class community where literally 95% of kids from public high school get a four year degree, and I really never even entertained the thought of not getting a BA, minimum. I think a lot of people project their own experiences on to others.
Any mention of The Cosby Show around my dad when it was on the air inevitably set off a rant about how ridiculous and fictional it was. According to him, it was patently offensive (to him? to society at large?) to show an upper-middle-class black family, when no such thing existed.
What [people] do not see on a regular basis, they assume to be rare or even nonexistent, indeed.
(My dad has stayed mysteriously silent on the subject of the Obama presidency, and I prefer not to rock the boat for the sake of peaceful phone calls home. Yes, he is a racist dork, but he is also my dad.)
@la.donna.pietra: Your dad interests me :) I grew up a little older than Rudy and a little younger than Vanessa in an upper middle class black family, and my parents have been married for 38 years by now, so when I watched the cosby show I saw absolutely nothing new or different about it. It was my family---although their house was fancier than ours!
This would be like saying that there aren't any white families in America like the Keatons in Family Ties.
@meg9: Oh, I didn't say he *watched* it (or Family Ties, for that matter; we were a mostly TV-free household). It was more what The Cosby Show represented, and what it clearly still represents for a lot of people.
@Trulymadlyme: 1) Robin was too busy preparing for her Pulitzer acceptance to watch television in the '90s.
2) Those people on that show are all characters. Just like the Huxtable children did not go to college because Hillman is not modeled on a real school. What is wrong with you?
@Trulymadlyme: I loved that show!! It totally blew every other sitcom out of the water. I liked that there were 4 black women who were both "authentically black" and still allowed to be funny, ditzy, mean, vain, sexy, hell, the range of human emotion. The portrayal of black men was good also.
...de, de, dum. Off to Netflix to see if it's on DVD...
@Trulymadlyme: Because you can't sex her up and make someone want to fuck her before they'll give her a chance to bring the funny. It makes me so mad the pornification of Tina Fey. Ugh. Another thread!!
The post itself has the conundrum within it. Only 2.6% of the Iowa population is black and many of the people with similar stories to the Obama family live in black neighborhoods. So how are whites who live in all white towns in Iowa supposed to come across succesful blacks if not through television?
It probably comes from having lived in DC/the DC area for most of my life, but I tend to forget that most white people haven't been exposed to the range of "other" that I have. DC is very segregated, but I've known people of all races and classes here. Enough to learn at an early age that stereotypes are a waste of time because people are pretty complex beings. But in particular I've known a lot of middle and upper class black people, so the Obamas aren't strange and exotic creatures to me.
But, there's a point here that I think you're not giving enough credence to.
Television is, for better or worse, the village bonfire around which we tell our stories now. All societies decide what's important and tells stories about those things; if an idea, a group, a point of view isn't talked about, it's judged as unimportant. True, the village has about 300 million people, and the bonfire is much more diffuse than it once was, but it shapes our view of reality to a really powerful degree. People see as normative that which they know; if they know no people of color (see: Iowa stats), or openly gay people, or Jews their only really source of information is the media.
The worst thing about comparing Michelle to Claire is the implicit acknowledgment that the Cosby Show was the last time that the American public, as a whole, told stories about professional Black families. It's not "television's responsibility to prepare us for successful black women like Michelle Obama" -- but it is what TV does, or in this case mostly doesn't, do.
@ellaesther: I would say that it *is* television's responsibility to put forth some positive images of various underrepresented members of society, if only to counteract all the bad stereotypes it's reinforced over the years.
@la.donna.pietra: Well, I would agree to the extent that everyone is responsible for behaving responsibly. But there's no surer way to make bad art or bad entertainment than to insist that it live up to something.
I guess the responsibility then would lie with the people who green-light writers and story lines and shows. There's no doubt that there are lots and lots of really good stories being told by lots of really talented non-white, straight, mainstream people -- we don't have to make a point to MAKE the right thing, because the right thing already exists. We have to make a point of choosing to give it a hearing. (Or, they do. The TV people. And society at large).
@ellaesther: I'm not talking about treacly public service announcements or insipid PC shows, but rather studio execs saying: "Wow, maybe we shouldn't have made every burglar/mugger/etc. a person of color for about 40 years. That may have had a negative impact in general perception." They're the ones who decide what we get to watch. If it were entirely up to us, Firefly would still be going strong.
@la.donna.pietra: Oh god no, not PSAs! Can you see it? Let's see, who's the whitest nice guy on the planet... Tom Hanks? Let's go with it:
Tom: "Really, White America, Black People! They're just like us!"
No, I figured you were talking about dictating scripts, top-down, or introducing characters for their colorfulness, or whatever. But I see we are on the same page!
I wouldn't call The Cosby Show dated. It's still relevant and will always be one of my all-time favorite shows. I don't think it's necessary to keep comparing Michelle Obama to Clair Huxtable, though. Michelle is an individual, and we don't need to compare her to people, real or fictional, to understand who she is.
@save jinger: The obsession with "understanding" Michelle Obama strikes me as part of the "unicorn" reaction Trulymadlyme was talking about. I mean, what's to understand? She's a ridiculously bright, accomplished, attractive woman of color. Where's the huge puzzle?
Nonetheless, I'd still give the advantage to Claire Huxtable. Jackie O was no doubt bright and was educated, but she struck me as firmly a product of her time. Having a true career in your own right is a very different thing.
Wait, does this mean that Obama isn't Spock? Or was that comparison flawed anyway, cause Spock is not black?
I DO think increased visibility of minorities on television in a wide variety of roles is an important goal-- it's a pretty horrifying FAIL right now, and TV is an important part of our culture. The problem is that without better viability and variety, TV tends to either act like minorities don't exist or play on and confirm old stereotypes.
But yes, if someone still needs to make Clair Huxtable reference to "get" Michelle, they are lazy and have not being paying much attention.
06/19/09
I'm white. I grew up in an Irish middle-class family outside Boston. The n-word was used frequently; n-jokes were told. I was taught black people were different and dangerous.
And the bad thoughts sometimes pop into my head. I don't agree with them, but they're ingrained.
And I feel like an asshole.
I have tried all my life to get those thoughts out. As well as thoughts about Latinos, and Jews, and...I don't know, anyone who is not Irish.
I sound like a jerk, don't I?
06/19/09
06/19/09
Actually Anna N., this is not too far off. I'm not sure why you are so incredulous.
Dr. Mae Jemison, the first black woman to go into space has mentioned the influence of seeing actress Nichelle Nichols (Lt. Uhura on Star Trek) on television as a little girl. She has mentioned her as an inspiration time and time again. Oprah Winfrey has mentioned how seeing Diana Ross and the Supremes on Ed Sullivan inspired her as a child.
You have to remember that there was a time (as late as the 1960s) when some black artists were not even pictured on their own record albums because the powers that be assumed that white people would not buy the records. An example is the Isley Brothers.
Also, I would recommend Veronica Chamber's book "Having It All: Black Women and Success" where Claire Huxtable is specifically mentioned as an inspiration for many real professional black women:
Twenty-first century black women draw their inspiration from a wide range of sources: Claire Huxtable to Audrey Hepburn, snowboarding to basketball, Gloria Steinem to bell hooks. They choose what they like. Yet they are misunderstood by mainstream America and lack an accurate portrayal in the media of their lives.
[www.veronicachambers.com]
I don't find Robin Givhan's take "troubling" at all and I think that you are too quick to dismiss something that you are clearly not getting...
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I did always like him better though.
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Not that you can always blame people or be surprised...there are plenty of things I was "vague" about until I was exposed to information about it time and time again.
That said...yeah, it makes me kind of sad and I find it embarrassing that (as the media has it) the public is shocked by the Obamas.
I wonder how many observers shocked by the "eloquence" and social/educational mobility of the Obamas have gone to college, or gone to college with some racial diversity.
If nothing else...there are plenty of nonwhite authors and scientists I can think of that are on cable news, the Colbert Report or the Daily Show (younger audience, I guess), and the astrophysicist Neil Degrasse Tyson has been on everything from Colbert to Conan...for such an obscure field, he's a fun guest wherever he goes.
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This is not the way I want my kids to grow up.
06/19/09
I'm surprised it took this long.
After all, Mrs. Huxtable, FLOTUS, Oprah, and Queen Latifah are the only functional black women ever.
06/19/09
After I told her that I have a BA, and that I was in grad school, the look of shock on her face spoke volumes. It was as if she'd seen the yeti, right here in San Francisco.
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What [people] do not see on a regular basis, they assume to be rare or even nonexistent, indeed.
(My dad has stayed mysteriously silent on the subject of the Obama presidency, and I prefer not to rock the boat for the sake of peaceful phone calls home. Yes, he is a racist dork, but he is also my dad.)
06/19/09
This would be like saying that there aren't any white families in America like the Keatons in Family Ties.
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2) Those people on that show are all characters. Just like the Huxtable children did not go to college because Hillman is not modeled on a real school. What is wrong with you?
Hee.
06/19/09
I do have to say that if there was a TV show that basically reflected my own upbringing, it was Roseanne. Seriously. Hee.
06/19/09
...de, de, dum. Off to Netflix to see if it's on DVD...
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:P
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But, there's a point here that I think you're not giving enough credence to.
Television is, for better or worse, the village bonfire around which we tell our stories now. All societies decide what's important and tells stories about those things; if an idea, a group, a point of view isn't talked about, it's judged as unimportant. True, the village has about 300 million people, and the bonfire is much more diffuse than it once was, but it shapes our view of reality to a really powerful degree. People see as normative that which they know; if they know no people of color (see: Iowa stats), or openly gay people, or Jews their only really source of information is the media.
The worst thing about comparing Michelle to Claire is the implicit acknowledgment that the Cosby Show was the last time that the American public, as a whole, told stories about professional Black families. It's not "television's responsibility to prepare us for successful black women like Michelle Obama" -- but it is what TV does, or in this case mostly doesn't, do.
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I guess the responsibility then would lie with the people who green-light writers and story lines and shows. There's no doubt that there are lots and lots of really good stories being told by lots of really talented non-white, straight, mainstream people -- we don't have to make a point to MAKE the right thing, because the right thing already exists. We have to make a point of choosing to give it a hearing. (Or, they do. The TV people. And society at large).
06/19/09
06/19/09
Tom: "Really, White America, Black People! They're just like us!"
No, I figured you were talking about dictating scripts, top-down, or introducing characters for their colorfulness, or whatever. But I see we are on the same page!
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Nonetheless, I'd still give the advantage to Claire Huxtable. Jackie O was no doubt bright and was educated, but she struck me as firmly a product of her time. Having a true career in your own right is a very different thing.
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I DO think increased visibility of minorities on television in a wide variety of roles is an important goal-- it's a pretty horrifying FAIL right now, and TV is an important part of our culture. The problem is that without better viability and variety, TV tends to either act like minorities don't exist or play on and confirm old stereotypes.
But yes, if someone still needs to make Clair Huxtable reference to "get" Michelle, they are lazy and have not being paying much attention.
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Well... he might not be Spock, but Barack is totally a Vulcan name, right?
I know, I know. I'm horrible. I don't really have anything else to add here.
06/19/09
This surprises you?
06/19/09
Much like Soylent Green, BLACK WOMEN ARE PEEEEEOOOPLE!
WOMEN ARE ARE PEEEEEOOOPLE!
BLACK MEN ARE PEEEEEOOOPLE!
HISPANICS ARE PEEEEEOOOPLE!
ASIANS ARE PEEEEEOOOPLE!
White dudes do not have the people thing tied up. That is all.
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also: this article from Women and Hollywood on Jada's new series: [womenandhollywood.com]
06/19/09
I'm a puh-son. Bret's a puh-son. That puh-son over there is a puh-son.