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topsy
05/21/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
Elephants are social animals and are very emotionally sensitive. Poor Susie. Yeah, she's suffering, why don't you send her to the sanctuary in Tennessee, so she can be with other elephants and recover. This is why I hate zoos.
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cirocco
05/20/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
How can the zoo possibly be in denial that Susi has an emotional life and is capable of mourning? There was a compelling book about the emotional lives of animals published a while back--it even mentions elephants AND MOURNFUL WEEPING in its TITLE:

[www.jeffreymasson.com]
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lolacat
05/20/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
Because everyone in Barcelona calls her 'Thuthi'?

Sorry. Can't help it. This is a sad story, I know. I've never figured out my positions on quality zoos. However, she should have a companion if it is necessary for her happiness/health.
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slowpoke.r
05/20/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
Sadly, this is not unusual; Billy the Elephant at the LA Zoo is in a similar situation.
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elysium_kitschen
05/20/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
Sounds like a case for Cesar Millan. He can whisper to anything. I have faith that he can help Susi. For reals.
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Zombies make the heart grow fonder
05/20/09

@elysium_kitschen: Listen Barcelona, you just gotta show her that you are the pack leader.
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lucystrawberry: Tier 2 is the new black
05/20/09

@elysium_kitschen: I dont think even cesar can help an a wild animal. there is a big difference between an animal that has been domesticated for centuries and an animal that is a wild animal in captivity. and hey, i pretty much think cesar is magical.
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Ann.in.the.middle
05/20/09

@elysium_kitschen: Actually, Cesar Milan's methods have been criticized by the ASPCA and a large number of animal behaviorists.

Here's an example:

Dr. Nicholas Dodman - Professor and Head, Section of Animal Behavior Director of Behavior Clinic, Tufts University - Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine

"Cesar Millan's methods are based on flooding and punishment. The results, though immediate, will be only transitory. His methods are misguided, outmoded, in some cases dangerous, and often inhumane. You would not want to be a dog under his sphere of influence. The sad thing is that the public does not recognize the error of his ways. My college thinks it is a travesty. We've written to National Geographic Channel and told them they have put dog training back 20 years."

Here's a link for more info:

[www.urbandawgs.com]

Ian Dunbar is considered by most experts to be the authority on dog training.
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Zombies make the heart grow fonder
05/20/09

@Ann.in.the.middle: Ian Dunbar must know something that we don't since he calls Cesar's treatment inhumane and corporeal punishment. He acts as though Cesar beats the dogs. Sounds like someone has a case of the jealouzy.
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lucystrawberry: Tier 2 is the new black
05/21/09

@Zombies make the heart grow fonder: I love Cesar but Ann is right, a lot of dog trainer people really dislike and disagree with his methods.
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Zombies make the heart grow fonder
05/28/09

@lucystrawberry has a feeble ladybrain: I never said Ann was wrong. There are debates in all fields as to how to approach subjects. Personally, I was in the field of applied behavioral analysis which criticizes other psychological approaches such as Freud's psychoanalysis -so I recognize the debate here. I think Cesar has a very base approach to the animals but what we see on tv is a far cry from beating or inhumane animal treatment. That is why I said Dunbar must know more for him to make such a strong statement.

@Ann.in.the.middle: Your nasty, nasty attitude in response to a joke is totally uncalled for. Perhaps a brush up on comment rules would do you some good.
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Penny
05/20/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
Is eating ones excrement considered an act of depression, or masochism?
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saintbernadette
05/20/09

@Penny: Or the sign of an exotic palate?
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
05/20/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
Elephants are really social animals. I imagine she probably would mourn her friend's death if she was in the wild. That being said, being in a small enclosure is not helpful to her state of mind. Elephants need a lot of space to be happy and healthy. No wonder she is depressed. Just because she is healthy PHYSICALLY, it doesn't mean everything is ok.

Also, please check this out:

[www.elephants.com]
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baraqiel
05/20/09

@Sputnik_Sweetheart: This is exactly what I wanted to say, only way more eloquent. My first thought was, "Awww, she's lonely!" and my second was, "She'd probably appreciate a change of scene." Anyone who's been a pet owner knows that animals do have feelings and can be sad or angry or happy in a way that is not simply related to their physical states.
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battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch
05/20/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
We have such a lack of respect for the emotional well-being of 'God's creatures'. Who the fuck cares if we 'save' some species from extinction if the ones that live or locked up in cages, far from anything resembling a native habitat or social structure? If we were faced with the same option, I'd bet most of us would rather in the 'wild'.
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saintbernadette
05/20/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
Somebody get this elephant some Jamon-flavored Lays and a glass of cava! Stat!
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Abra
05/20/09

@saintbernadette: Then she can come over and watch bad reality tv.
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Plate2.18
05/20/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
Poor Susi. Elephants are such smart creatures, and I've read that they often mourn like we do.

My fish was depressed once, I'm sure of it. He stopped building bubble nests (he was a betta) and just laid around at the bottom of the bowl most of the time. When he did swim, he was very sluggish. I tried every disease treatment I could think of, but what finally cured him was getting his bowl in a high traffic area of the house, so he had lots of visual stimulation. He lived several years after that.
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t-yo3
05/20/09

@Kate2.18: That's amazing. I gotta start giving fish a bit more credit for smarts and personality.
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RainbowBrite
05/20/09

@Kate2.18: How interesting! I had a betta - I swear, he was really into it when I'd come over to his bowl! He'd get super excited, and I could hear him chomp his food when I fed him. He got SUPER stressed when I watched a friend's betta and he could see it -- it was kind of mean but I got excited about seeing them get all crazy. Haha

I've kind of been thinking about getting another one, but everything online says to change their water like, 2x a week! I don't remember doing that with mine - do you do that with yours??
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misspell
05/20/09

@Kate2.18: Aw. My family owns a tropical fish store, and I love that you were so attentive to your fish.
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PhillyLass
05/20/09

@Kate2.18: My goldfish committed suicide not long after his two companion fish passed away. Poor little dude jumped out of the bowl and we found him on the carpet the next morning. We gave him a Catholic burial on the theory that he wasn't in his right mind when he made the leap and, therefore, wasn't responsible for his actions.
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Annabellie
05/20/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
Her behaviour hasn't changed since her friend died? So that means she's been eating her own shit this whole time? That can't be healthy.
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Penny
05/20/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
Okay, this doesn't hold much water coming from me, because I eat and wear animals, but I'm not going to give Ringling a prize for not abusing their elephants. They're still dressing them up and making them do stupid tricks for the entertainment of humans.
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MarissaExplainsItAll
05/20/09

@Penny: The question is who the fuck is actually entertained by that?
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Santos L Halper
05/20/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
I can't be the only one who saw the documentary clip of a group of elephants pulling a young'un out of a mud pit. These are highly intelligent creatures. Of course she'd get depressed because of a)losing her companion and b)living in a cage.
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slowpoke.r
05/20/09

@Santos L Halper: That clip was incredible, I saw it over a decade ago and it's still so vivid to me. They not only rescued that abandoned calf, but worked together as a group to do so and then adopted the little one. So amazing.

Always wondered about the other elephants who abandoned it, though.
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FashionShowAtLunch
05/20/09

@Santos L Halper: Was that the one about the elephant orphanage? I think it was on 60 minutes.

I was totally blubbering by the end of that.
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PhillyLass
05/20/09

@FashionShowAtLunch: I saw that 60 Minutes report! I felt so badly for the mommy elephant worried for her dying baby. So heartbreaking.
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Hamsterpants
05/20/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
This could be me, Well, except for the eating shit part.
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Grim Reaper of the Forest
05/20/09

@Hamsterpants: I was going to say, I've been very depressed this year, but I haven't yet resorted to eating my own shit. Is serotonin concentrated in excrement? If so, I'll give it a try.
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♥AntiSocialSocialite♥
05/20/09

@Hamsterpants: same - swap out poo for whole rows of oreos (though the poo would probably be healthier).
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MarissaExplainsItAll
05/20/09

@Hamsterpants: there is time...just wait ;)
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shorty63136
05/20/09

In reply to Why Is An Elephant In Barcelona "Depressed"?
Susi needs to be out of the zoo, and in a safari-type situation where she would have more space and would be able to join a herd.

Agreed. Just because she didn't get sad immediately after the other elephant died doesn't mean she's not sad NOW. If she were a human, her doctor wouldn't put so much weight on WHY she's depressed despite her overall good health (although I'm sure eating your own excrement cannot be healthy) but instead on fixing the symptoms of depression.
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