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messybessy
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
So, first of all, a size 8 is plus sized? Bummer. Secondly, I don't understand how putting a bunch of size 8 amazonian white girls in a spread instead of size 0 amazonian white girls in a spread celebrates all kinds of beauty?
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jenrobe
10/01/09

@messybessy: No, it's ok, they got the token black girl in there!
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LaComtesse
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
Oh yay! Now it’s okay for white women to be not skinny (and have one black friend).

As much as I love the curvaceous prettiness, if we’re taking this special moment to address the issue of the fact that there is ONE beauty standard, let’s ADDRESS IT. Let’s get American Indian models, Indian models, black, white, Asian, Hispanic models. Long hair, short hair, curly hair.Put the fat ones next to the skinny ones next to the curvy ones rather than segregate all of them into their own categories.

These women are beautiful. I’m glad they’re in this magazine, I appreciate with Glamour says it is trying to do, but I’ll appreciate it more when they actually do it.
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JerseyGrrrl
10/01/09

@LaComtesse: WELL SAID.
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sybann
10/01/09

@LaComtesse: STANDING OVATION.

OK, sprawling all over the set ovation.
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Lymed
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
Why do I think a lot of men will be buying the November issue of Glamour...?
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Zombie Ms. Skittles
10/01/09

@Lymed: Because they want to support the FA movement, y'all. They care about women and womens' issues and if this is important to us, then they're totally going to make an effort to understand it.
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Lymed
10/01/09

@Zombie Ms. Skittles: They may actually care about having more pictures like this appear in magazines that aren't on the top rack.
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SarahMC
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
Y'know what, even if these women aren't huuuuuuge, I doubt they have an easy time finding clothes that fit. Turns out I went up a size over the course of the past year so I had to go dress pants shopping recently. You're lucky to find one pair of pants above an 8 in some stores. I don't know if it's because they don't order them or because all the fat girls rush in and buy them out.
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EarlyGrey
10/01/09

@SarahMC: I think it's a matter of where you live, as well. I notice that when I'm visiting my parents in suburban NY there are a lot more larger sizes than stores typically carry in NYC. I think metropolitan stores stock smaller sizes than suburban stores. This is of course based on very anecdotal evidence.
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SarahMC promoted this comment Edited by EarlyGrey at 10/01/09 3:32 PM EarlyGrey was starred EarlyGrey was unstarred

Lymed
10/01/09

@SarahMC: Some stores don't order clothes above certain sizes because "they don't cater to those type of women." I was told that by a salesperson when I was a size 8 in college and all the shirts at the store were too big for my oh-so-large size 36-C chest I had at the time.
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SarahMC
10/01/09

@EarlyGrey: I'm trying to shop in and immediately outside D.C. so that may be the problem. Ugh. I found pants, btw, but it's annoying to pick up a huge stack of size 0 and 2 in order to get that solitary [my size].
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bookling
10/01/09

@SarahMC: It depends where you're shopping. I used to work at H&M. We carried sizes 2-16, but sizes 10-16 always sold out first, so we'd be left with just fours and sixes and people thinking that we didn't carry their sizes. Really, we needed a better method of replenishment so that we could get more of those sizes back in.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
10/01/09

@SarahMC: That may well be part of the problem. If it hasn't changed since I was there, I think you want to stay away from Tyson's Corner. Isn't there a nice outlet in Owings Mills? Do you like Eileen Fisher?

(Also, if the concept of mail order and/or tailoring doesn't bother you, you might want to check in with Anna Scholz. British. Not cheap, but beautiful work.)
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JerseyGrrrl
10/01/09

@SarahMC: You're definitely right and that's what I've always wondered too: lack of order or size rush?

Similar issue: The stores whose sizes are so out of whack that their largest sizes fit only model-types and 12-year-olds. I refuse to shop at stores that don't offer clothes that fit my body: I won't even buy accessories and the like. I don't want to give them my business if I'm not the type of client they're looking for, right?

**cough, Abercrombie, cough**
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SarahMC
10/01/09

@Rooo sez BISH PLZ: I stay away from Tyson's because... it's Tyson's. Way too panic-inducing. I don't order from catalogs or online because I am not all that proportional so I need to try everything on. I should probs bite the bullet and accept that I need to get shit hemmed. Thanks for the tips!
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voteforme
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
For the millionth time, depicting plus-sized girls nude doesn't solve the sample size problem and only reinforces the idea that your life is worth living as long as you're sexually appealing. Glamour is patting itself on the back for this lameass bait-and-switch and avoiding the bigger point of the plus-sized issue, which is getting designers to dress and hire these girls.
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Newsgirl
10/01/09

@voteforme: I get your point, but this is one photo. And, the editor says "...we're going to celebrate the designers who help us do that." As in clothing designers will get editoral space and publicity for dressing these ladies.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
10/01/09

@voteforme: Designers do dress and hire these girls.
I'm going to guess you're not familiar with Elena Miró, whose work is almost as fashion-forward as Vivienne Westwood, or Marina Rinaldi, who has a Madison Avenue showroom right down the street from Ralph Lauren.
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Newsgirl
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
I think this is wonderful, and I don't understand all the negative comments. Yes, we all very well know one photo isn't enough, that the models aren't really "plus size," etc, etc. I'm thrilled that a magazine is actually making real changes. One small step in the right direction is still a step in the right direction; and if they keep their word I'll keep my subscription.
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AthertonMerriweather
10/01/09

@Newsgirl Leslie: I guess models are either too thin or not big enough?
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Newsgirl
10/01/09

@AthertonMerriweather: Seems like it.
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Dictator for Life
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
I can't tell from the photo, but I think it's pretty safe to assume that those models thighs have been airbrushed into perfection. That bothers me, b/c my biggest body hang-up is my dimply thighs. Seeing plus-size models without dimply thighs makes me feel just as bad about myself as seeing stick-thin models without dimply thighs. I know that their thighs have been airbrushed, but I'm sure there are tons of girls and women out there who are going to be excited to see women who look like them, only to open the magazine and feel worse about themselves when they see that these models have smooth, perfect thighs. They won't know they've been airbrushed, or won't think about it, and this'll just end up resulting in more women feeling bad about their bodies.
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RosettaStoned
10/01/09

@Dictator for Life: Crystal Renn, unretouched:
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Dictator for Life
10/01/09

@RosettaStoned: THANK YOU! This is the first time I've ever seen a picture of a plus-size (or any size) model and thought, wow, she looks like me! I love it!
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RosettaStoned
10/01/09

@Dictator for Life: I love it too b/c it proves not all curvy women have huge gazongas!! I've always felt like every other bigger girl on earth at least gets to have big boobs but now I see I'm not alone lol.
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Nancy Sin
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
I like the idea of this on the surface, but something about the New Glamour screams "product differentiation!" to save their hides in a time when print media is freefalling.
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Zombie Ms. Skittles
10/01/09

@Nancy Sin: Hey, if this is them pandering to me to drum up sales, then pander away! I'll buy it.
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AthertonMerriweather
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
Wow. I'm surprised to see so many negative comments about this. I think it's a step in the right direction and the women in the picture look beautiful.
I think we can all agree that the photo is a departure from the norm as far as fashion magazines go.
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Edited by AthertonMerriweather at 10/01/09 2:57 PM

Rooo sez BISH PLZ
10/01/09

@AthertonMerriweather: Agreed. Enthusiastically.
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mama_t
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
It's a start. I'm actually glad they're naked for this photo - it's about confronting the fact that when more typical sizes move, flesh actually moves too. Shocking, I know.

If they commit to using larger models in more shoots, and actually follow through, I'm pleased.
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Newsgirl
10/01/09

@mama_t: I'm glad the models are naked, too, especially for a photo marking the launch of a new magazine initiative. If they were all clothed, it would be a less effective statement.
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Rose.Selavy.Needs.A.Drink
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
I’d rather see a pile of plus sized puppies.
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Apollonia
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
Though all these ladies are gorgeous, do they always have to be naked in these shoots? Why do the "plus size" models need to show all their skin, but the stick thin and mega tall get to wear Chanel and Gucci?

I love seeing these kinds of body types celebrated in magazines, but it just feels like it'll be a "Here are the big girls! Check them out! They're naked!" issue and then... back to the S.O.S.
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Hana Maru
10/01/09

@Apollonia: I'm guessing that since top designers have objected to their clothes being put on black girls, they might also have balked at being included in the fat girl extravaganza. There's also the problem of sample sizes. High fashion is very size phobic.
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Apollonia
10/01/09

@Hana Maru: Very true. It makes my (on a good day) size 6 ass very sad.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
10/01/09

@Hana Maru: That's a really depressing, and probably accurate thought.

Of course, if I were Marina Rinaldi, or Anna Scholz, or Elena Miró, I'd probably feel like it was a slap in the face, but ...
*sigh*
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JerseyGrrrl
10/01/09

@Hana Maru: Good point. And those designers control the magazine's ad count, which controls its budget... so in reality only a portion of the blame is on the shoulder's of the magazine's editorial staff. I think it's a vicious cycle, with the advertisers controlling a LOT more content than they do with most newspapers and web sites. That said, if readers are demanding diversity, FINALLY, then maybe they've got to rethink their advertisers. Something has to give. I'm joining Rooo in an elaborately long **sigh**
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Edited by JerseyGrrrl at 10/01/09 4:32 PM JerseyGrrrl was starred JerseyGrrrl was unstarred

Pantra
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
I find it interesting that they show off the plus size models in a big naked huddle. Yes, they do all look ripe and sensual but it still seems to play to stereotype - that fleshier girls are salt of the earth types, while the super thin models, dressed in couture, are elegant and ethereal.

In other words - I don't see diversity as much as a dichotomy. Show the usual super-thin models in a naked huddle. Show the plus models wearing couture. I get that this is a start in the right direction, but I can't exactly call it brave or daring.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
10/01/09

@Pantra: "Show the usual super-thin models in a naked huddle."
I take your point, but actually ...
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Edited by Rooo sez BISH PLZ at 10/01/09 2:52 PM Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred

Rooo sez BISH PLZ
10/01/09

@Rooo sez BISH PLZ:
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Pantra
10/01/09

@Rooo sez BISH PLZ: I don't consider the 80's/90's models super thin. I'm talking more about today's fashion models that I see in mags. Like when Crystal Renn was 98 pounds, would she have been put in a naked huddle picture?
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
10/01/09

@Pantra: "Like when Crystal Renn was 98 pounds, would she have been put in a naked huddle picture?"
I'm not a high fashion photographer, but I wouldn't call it an exclusion from the realm of possibility.

"I don't consider the 80's/90's models super thin."
Kind of my point. What's "thin" and "fat" is arguable, relative, and clearly in the eye of the beholder, but the iconage of the image is universal, b/c fashion photographers aren't necessarily the most imaginative bunch.

To put it another way, you're not wrong to want to see what you want to see. But what you want to see and what you might expect to see -- especially when it comes to Western women's fashion -- are not always going to converge, and I, for one, am just grateful for the departure from the standard.

I don't really feel like arguing about it at greater length, though.
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Edited by Rooo sez BISH PLZ at 10/01/09 3:35 PM Rooo sez BISH PLZ was starred

JerseyGrrrl
10/01/09

I don't see diversity as much as a dichotomy.

@Pantra: I really like this point. Well put. This image is tainted by the type of "otherness" still often at play when non-white models are used. It's like those responsible are holding it up and waiting for someone to uncork the bubbly and pat them on the backs. And we, the viewers, are like "Why should this be only for a special occasion?"
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schoolofloverboy
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
why are they naked?
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JaneIre
10/01/09

@schoolofloverboy: Because clearly there are no clothes in existance on the planet that could fit women over a size 2.
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SarahMC
10/01/09

In reply to Glamour's "Plus-Size" Model Photo Unveiled On Ellen
This is all kinds of disappointing. Naturally they have to make a production out of showcasing fat women. They couldn't even have them modeling fashionable clothes for non-models?
Yawn.
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