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Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus

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Jack_Burton
11/18/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
So... Who thinks that there may be more men than women on the Times' editorial staff?

Me too.
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formerlyzivah
11/17/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
Moe? Slut Machine? Is that you?
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Tracie
11/17/08

@formerlyzivah: fuck you.
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The Curse of Millhaven
11/17/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
I'm a man and I have found the replies to this story interesting. What I see is that many of the replies suggest that women either do or should all think alike and constantly support each other as a bloc, and that someone who does not follow that line and claims to have had contradicting experiences is a fool or a villain. One doesn't have to like what someone says, but it is blind to totally deny that what Mirren says may actually reflect real experiences.
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whatsername
11/17/08

@Sillius: Interesting. What _I_ see is alot of women AND men(?) hurt, annoyed, angry frustrated, irritated... that someone with some sort of platform is making such assinine statements as Dame Mirren is. It fascinates me that you pick out the politically correct angle of argument in this post wrt its responses; if you drink the Feminism Kool-Aid there's something wrong with ya, right? How dare we be annoyed with an actor mouthing off against women, saying "women go against women' like its something out of Leviticus (and thereby showing her proving her own little dictum true). How dare we be annoyed with her asshattery JUST because its asshattery? No! it MUST be because we're just picking on the gal who is independent of mind. We all drank the Kool-Aid. Move along.
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Cerridwen
11/17/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
But, Dame Helen, rape has nothing to do with sex. It is sexualised violence, NOT SEX. So, how can women be sexually jealous of a rape victim? Like, we're all, "Oh, you were raped! That must mean you're prettier than me. You bitch!" For God's sake, what the fuck is Mirren even talking about?

I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt over her last comments, because it seemed like a) they were misrepresented here and elsewhere and b) she was still dealing with her own sexual trauma. But this? Is wrong in so many ways. It perpetuates a few damaging myths: that women are competitive, back-stabbing bitches, that rape is no different than sex, etc.

EPIC FAIL.
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CrankyOldBroad
11/17/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
What a way to start the week: wanting to bitchslap Helen Mirren and her interviewer. I'm thinking there isn't enough coffee to make the morning get better.
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msAnthrope
11/17/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
this is a christopher hitchens interview just waiting to happen.
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Notes from the underwhelmed
11/17/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
Eek. It is true, generally speaking, that a predominantly male jury is more likely to convict a rapist than a predominantly female jury. However, I've always thought, read, etc. that the reason for that is that the women want to believe it couldn't happen to them, and that the woman must have done something to cause it. It's ridiculous to say that it's out of jealousy or something like that.
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Dizzy8
11/17/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
For some reason, I can't read most of the other posts until after I've posted. I stand by my original comment, but I do want to add something. Several people have pointed out that women who say they can't trust other women are probably not trustworthy. That may be true in some circumstances (women who over-generalize about any group are probably not good at identifying their own motives).

I know, though, that I've been there when women were being targeted by the group, for no real reason. I didn't lead it, but I didn't stop it either because I didn't want them to turn on me. Social bullying exists; it is practiced by both sexes; and I don't think it's helpful to try to shame people who point it out. (It's also not helpful to pretend girls are the only ones who practice it).
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clevernamehere
11/17/08

@Dizzy8: The problem is, women who say they can't trust other women as a group aren't just pointing out a problem, they are participating in it. It is passive aggressive bullying to tell a woman that women aren't trustworthy.

I think everyone has either participated in bullying or let it slide at one time or another, but I'm out of high school (and college) and I have enough self confidence that I don't put up with bullying and that includes "Girls are mean!" bullying.
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tscheese
11/17/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
She has said in the past that when she was forced to have sex against her will it was the lethal result of a combination of feminism - not wanting to be a victim - and innocence - not knowing how not to be a victim.

How do you learn "how not to be a victim," then, Helen? Is there some magical skill that you know--and no one else does--that will prevent you from being raped? Because if it's just a matter of knowing how "not to be a victim", then no one would ever get raped! Apparently you've got some kind of ineffable wisdom because smart people don't get raped or something? And how exactly does feminism expose you to rapists any more than any other ideology?

A WORLD OF NO, MIRREN.
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PilgrimSoul
11/17/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
Once again proving my theory that actors are, fundamentally, talented fools.
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ClobberGirl
11/17/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
Bizarre interview all arround, and Helen's comments are appalling. That said, I shadowed my-uncle-the-prosecutor one summer. He and another (female) attorney were working a rape case, and both said essentially the same thing, though without the "tribal jealousy" BS. In their experience male jurors are more likely to convict on rape and domestic abuse cases. They aren't allowed to use premptory challenges to excuse potential jurors based on gender alone, but they do try to find non-sex-based reasons to knock of women from certian backgrounds/socio-economic groups.

Perhaps jury selection is different in the UK?
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gherkinfiend
11/17/08

@ClobberGirl: I'm trying to find some mock trial details from theoretical rape cases that the police, Crown Prosecution Service and Amnesty did a couple of years back in the UK which showed that in cases involving drug rape and rape involving intoxication juries with a majority of women were more hesitant to convict than juries with a majority of men.

There may have been judgemental thoughts behind this, but there was also the feeling that woman were more cautious about sending someone to prison if they might be innocent so were more hesistant about conviction.

Obviously a mock trial isn't perfect but it is illegal to interview jurors after a trial in the UK so studies can't be done with real juries.

While I didn't find women supportive after my rape, the shit Helen Mirren is spouting without basis is how rape myths are born....
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Grim Reaper of the Forest
11/17/08

@gherkinfiend: That's interesting. I wonder if women as less likely to convict rapists, or less likely to convict overall. If it is actually true, I guess I could buy that women who have been date raped and laid some of the blame on themselves might be much more hesitant to convict in a date rape case.
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Admore thinks really long names make you funnier
11/19/08

@ClobberGirl: I wish I could find the statistics I had on this at one time, as the net isn't helping me out. As I recall it, if you want to convict a rapist you generally want a jury made up of fathers of girls. I'd rather that wasn't true, but the evidence was, at least some years ago, pretty compelling.

@Treecut - women are not less likely to convict overall - the rates are about the same for other crimes. Women are slightly more likely to convict on other violent crimes.

Of course women who have had a sexual assault against them are likely to be stricken from a jury by the defense under a peremptory challenge, if nothing else.
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whatsername
11/17/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
The worst place in the world to be a womam? Yemen. Oh, and Helen Mirren's mind.
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Maulleigh
11/17/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
That sound of quiet weeping in the north is me in the Bronx.
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Devonna
11/17/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
I'm still trying to wrap my head around her rape being the result of feminism and innocence.
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Grim Reaper of the Forest
11/17/08

@Devonna: That was the only thing she said that made any sense to me (or at least how I interpreted it in my head). What I thought she was saying, is that compared to the good/bad old days when men were assumed to be predatory and women virtuous, "feminism" allows women to be sexually empowered and take pleasure, instead of always being "taken advantage of". However, a young and innocent woman may have more difficulty navigating being truly empowered and being pressured into a situation she is not comfortable with.
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Grim Reaper of the Forest
11/17/08

@treecut just Baracked the Vote!: Of course, to clarify, it is never the woman's fault if she happens to be exposed to an asshole rapist in these situations.
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Our Lady of the Massacre
11/17/08

In reply to Helen Mirren On Rape Is A Royal Ignoramus
Eww. I never knew Helen Mirren was so...predatory. The whole exchange seems to be viewed through the "male gaze", like that's what a lot of men want to hear and how they want women to act.
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whatsername
11/17/08

@Our Lady of the Massacre: I think you're onto something here. There is a type of woman who wants to be 'acceptable' to the male psyche at all times, even to the point of thinking they're being anti-conformist because they're not siding with all them feminist bitches (and so make them a cool chick to those guys. see: palin, sarah)
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