Good Hair follows Rock's journey to discover what exactly qualifies as, well, good hair. Over the course of the film, Rock visits beauty schools, a hair show, India, barbershops, and beauty supply stores in search of answers. He interviews Hollywood notables like Nia Long, Raven-Symoné, and Meghan Good. He visits relaxer factories and chemical labs. But through it all, the quest for a father to answer his daughter's question anchors the story. Good Hair appears to have done well for its opening weekend - it made over a million dollars on opening weekend ($6,005 average per screen) with a limited release, and was 14th over all.

We all agreed that Good Hair was enjoyable viewing - but was it good? Anna, Dodai, and I try to hash out our feelings below.

ANNA:

Okay, I'll start.

I've had 24 hours to digest the movie and I'm left with the same impression I had yesterday afternoon: Good Hair was comedic - lord knows I love a good Chris Rock joke - but it was not particularly challenging. But let me back up: I think that Rock and his producers' choice to frame the film with footage from the Atlanta hair show was a mistake. Certainly, the Atlanta hair show says something larger about black womens' hair - namely, the versatility of it, the money pumped into it, the theater of it - but that's about it. For me, the most compelling moments were the one on one interviews - especially Nia Long, who spoke uncharacteristically frankly for a Hollywood starlet, and Sarah Jones, whose joke about "tumbleweaves" had both my sister and I howling in our Times Square theater - and the brief glimpses of Chris interacting with his beloved baby girls, who inspired the film in the first place. (Question: Where was his wife in all of this?)

I will give Chris major points for the segment in which he goes to India to see how the human hair used in weaves is obtained. The resulting footage was damning: Human beings in a third world country reduced to their body parts, which are then sold off so that comparatively rich women in the first world can use them as adornments. Ugh. Seeing those swaths of hair being sorted, laid out, combed through and spun into perfect bundles of shiny ebony silk made me sick to my stomach. I was also troubled by the meme/hypothesis Chris kept pushing about black male economic complicity - subsidization, really - of the weaves found on black womens' heads. Does Chris really think that the (considerable) expense of a weave or hairpiece is SOOOO out of reach to the average black woman that they so directly inform her choice(s) of mate and his accompanying earning power? Does Chris believe that weaves are what black women really care about when it comes to where they choose to spend their - or others' - money? What about ownership of a home? Secondary education? I found the whole line of questioning offensive, and the men he spoke to, even someone supposedly as intelligent as Al Sharpton, were more than happy to oblige him in it.

LATOYA:

Hmm. I liked the film a lot - if you watched Chris Rock's other movies, Good Hair flows with that aesthetic. The fact that Rock would have a question - that is broadly about the women's obsession with hair, and intersperse the fact finding with as many moments of comedy as he could just makes total sense.

I also really liked the one-on-one interviews, but you neglected to mention one of my favorites - Ice-T. And I enjoyed the hair show framing because it illuminated quite a few things. While I was annoyed at Rock's tired-ass "all look same" joke, the hair show showed (1) the magnitude of the hair business, (2) how few of the vendors are black owned, (3) how much of a mega-industry this is, and (4) how stylists become celebrities. (In my theater, a gleeful cheer ran through the crowd, when Derek J, of Real Housewives of Atlanta fame, came on the screen.) In addition, I felt like some of the inclusions were intentional. How did a white boy like Jason Griggers learn to do black hair - and consistently win marks for best hair styles? When he talked about having a teacher who kept after him to learn to work a Marcel Iron, it starts to become a clear contrast how "difficult" black hair is to work with. It really just needs a skilled hand.

I did feel like Rock stressed the wrong side of the economic equation. I felt like he was pressing for humor but that was a serious question - exactly how much money do we sacrifice in pursuit of this idealized hair? And, as`many women explained in the film, it's one of those rituals that you never stop.

DODAI:

Ice-T was my favorite too!

But I also agree that the focus was a little off. When Chris Rock spoke to a group of high school seniors — 5 or 6 girls with relaxed hair, and one young lady with a natural 'fro — my heart broke when her schoolmates said they couldn't see her getting a job with that hair, and that walking into a law office in a suit with an Afro was a "contradiction."

CONTRADICTION. Like suit=success and Afro=failure.

I wish Rock had followed that part up with an interview with Toni Morisson or Cornel West or Angela Davis (or Michaela Angela Davis) — someone BRILLIANT with natural hair. Or even Alek Wek! The women in the film who have natural hair — Traci Thoms; Sarah Jones — were eloquent and funny but I would have liked more voices saying that you can be successful in life without relaxing your hair or wearing a weave. I know Maya Angelou was in it, but I felt like there were SO MANY pretty women with straight hair or weaves and not enough of the alternative: Dreads, afros, natural curls, etc. On people with JOBS.

I thought the finances of hair were interesting, but there were times that I thought it was condescending — I mean seriously, women spend on hair AND makeup and TAMPONS and WAXING and a lot of stuff men don't spend on. So seeing men agog at the cost? Whatever. It didn't feel that effective. I agree with LaToya in that it is a serious question — - exactly how much money do we sacrifice in pursuit of this idealized hair — but might have been illustrated in a different and more powerful way — like what if he had followed a woman who quit her weave/relaxer habit? And talked to her before and after? And showed that it's not the end of her life — and her hair is not her life? It was funny and I did enjoy it, but I think the fact that it was from a man's perspective worked well when he spoke as a father and worked against him when he was just a critic/comedian making fun of the cash women spend on something they clearly feel they need to. I wish he would have explored the idea that maybe they *don't* need to.

LATOYA:

Oh, thanks for bringing that up.

Upon reflection, I actually felt Rock's treatment of natural hair dealt with the issue in a very realistic way. Out of 95 minutes, maybe 10 or so are spent discussing natural hair - and most of that is negative. But again, I feel like this is realistic. In progressive circles (particularly the blogosphere) you see so many articles and communities dedicated to the positive discussions and portrayals of natural hair, but I felt like that quick scene with the seniors was a lot more indicative of the attitudes about natural hair in the real world. "It's nice, BUT..."

I mean, these girls felt straight up comfortable saying "Well, I wouldn't hire you with a 'fro." But again, I feel like that's what many people are quietly thinking. Remember, I'm only two years into a transition - the world does treat me differently now, in many ways, than two years ago. While I'm cool hanging out with my curly/kinky/nappy tribe (who all came to watch the doc with me) we *all* knew what the one natural haired girl was going through.

On the flip side of that, I was really glad that Rock focused a lot on weaves. Because, again, we are literally adorning ourselves with someone else's hair because our hair has been deemed unworthy. There's even the ranking of the weaves with Tyra's bouncing segment,where human hair bounces and synthetic doesn't. So I felt like even though there wasn't much time spent on it, Rock did illuminate a lot of the negative attitudes about natural hair that go quietly (or not so quietly) hidden. I mean, that scene where he's trying to sell black hair to beauty supply stores was ridiculous, and over done, but it was all worth it for that one shot where there's the Asian employee and the black employee, and the black employee is talking about how "no one wants to look like that anymore" and how straight hair was the standard. And in the eyes of many, that's real - why would you embrace a natural when you have all these other options?

ANNA:

I'm surprised not to hear more from both of you about the segment(s) involving the manner in which human hair used in weaves is obtained. Again, I was really, really disturbed by it, and I wish that Chris had spoken to an Indian woman - or even the Indian man who travels around West L.A. selling the imported locks - as to her/his feelings on this factory-farming of human keratin. Chris seemed somewhat taken aback by the whole thing, initially, but he didn't work particularly hard to press any of the individuals in that particular "food chain" (the donors, the buyers, the sellers, the hairdressers, the clients) - as to the real and problematic issues inherent in any market that trafficks in human body parts for the benefit of the wealthy. I will say one thing: I did love the inadvertent admission by the Beverly Hills hairstylist who let it slip that actress Vivica A. Fox prefers Malaysian hair for her weaves - too bad Chris didn't get her on camera to comment.

LATOYA:

Vivica's going to be mad when she sees her hair secret is out! What if the movie drives up the price of Malaysian hair?

I guess I'm not surprised, so I'm not shocked. My mom sells lacefronts as a side business, and is the queen of weave. (Obviously, my afro - which she semi-lovingly calls an "ush" - doesn't go over too well.) Human hair has to come from some kind of human sacrifice - and, unlike with other obsessions, cutting hair doesn't require killing someone. Is it fucked up that temples are part of the grand laundering scheme? Completely. But the market is so huge, someone else will fill in the gap. Or, like one of the hair thieves explained, someone will just start chopping off ponytails in movie theaters.

And if you press people, do they really care? I mean, we've been talking about blood diamonds for years, yet we still see people flashing diamond engagement rings and DeBeers is still in business.

DODAI:

The scenes involving the human hair business in India weren't that disturbing to me, either. I thought they were interesting, but not distressing or surprising. Actually, I was under the impression that women sold their hair (and I think they do in some European countries) and the idea that one woman's sacrifice becomes another woman's $3000 glory was fascinating.

But I do wish there had been more of an overall philosophical/anthropological tone — weaves are popular now; conking was popular once upon a time; Marcel irons go in and out of fashion. Ancient Egyptians used elaborate wigs and Georgiana Duchess of Devonshire had huge updos with birds and feathers and ships in them. Even though the film was correct to focus on race, sometimes I wondered if there was too much "OH LOOK AT WHAT THOSE CRAZY BLACK PEOPLE DO" subtext when humans have been playing with their appearances for centuries.

LATOYA:

I agree some more context would have been beneficial, but I think that last piece gets at the heart of the doc: yes, hair is an extension of fashion. But why are so many women treating it as an absolute necessity?

ANNA:

Because, Latoya, as Maya Angelou said in the movie, hair is a woman's "glory".

LATOYA:

Yeah, glory and apparently ill-gotten gains.

Good Hair [IMDB]
Good Hair [Box Office Mojo]

In the new release, Valenti, the founder of Feministing.com and the author of three - yes, three - other books, tackles what she terms the "myth" of female purity and virginity. It's a big topic, encompassing not only the aforementioned issues, but abortion rights, sexual assault, and raunch culture, so I felt a straight book review might not suffice. A Q&A - conducted via email this week and last - appears below.

Q: I was somewhat surprised to find that much of the book focused on "traditional" issues of concern to feminists and progressives - the epidemic of rape and victim-blaming, anti-feminist and anti-choice activism and policy, the "porn"/"raunch" culture and sexualization of young girls - in a book about the idea of female purity. In fact, I got the distinct sense that you broached these other issues as a way of introducing them to readers who might not be familiar with them or the ways in which contemporary feminist thinkers approach them; the book felt, at times, like a crash course in Feminism 101 (or should I say, Feminism 2009). I don't mean to suggest that concern over female virginity and purity isn't linked to these issues, but I wonder if, in your mind, a conversation about ideas of virginity/purity wasn't a convenient, fresh way to introduce the broader concerns among feminists to people unfamiliar with them?

JESSICA: Well, the idea from the book really came about from my covering all of the "traditional" feminist issues on Feministing and finding this purity narrative come up again and again – and seeing the ways the issues were all linked. So yes, part of my political project is definitely to make feminism and feminist issues part of the mainstream conversation. But that wasn't really the larger aim for The Purity Myth. I just don't think you can talk about purity and virginity without looking at the very specific and distinct ways that they influence issues like violence against women, sexualization and reproductive justice. They are all related, unbelievably so, especially when you look at the ways that the conservative movement is using old school ideas about virginity to promote a really regressive agenda for women's rights.

Q: What did you learn about notions and ideas of virginity/purity in cultures outside America, whether Western or not? Why did you choose not to include them? I'd love to hear what you had to leave out, for reasons of space or focus or both.

JESSICA: I would love to see a book exploring these issues in other countries or on a global level – but there are two reasons why I didn't want to broaden the book outside of the U.S. The first being issues of focus and my area of expertise, which of course is U.S.-based; the second is that I think that the U.S. is at this really interesting and historical and cultural point where the over-sexualization of women in the media and pop culture is clashing (and sometimes intersecting) with the conservative movement in this peculiar way that is really specific to the U.S. I'm sure most countries have some form of virginity-fetishizing going on, but the U.S. sure does do it with a particular flair! Where else can you find purity balls and vaginal rejuvenations in the same small town?!

Q: I have to say that I was both amused and annoyed by your college roommate Jen's assertion that sex isn't sex unless you've had an orgasm. Although I agree that it is a "pleasure-based, non-heteronormative way of marking intimacy," I also think it discounts the fact that the majority of women cannot orgasm easily from sex - penetrative or not. And I wonder if the embracing of the Virginity Movement on the part of young people - male and female - doesn't stem in some part from an ignorance of women's sexuality and the mechanics of female orgasm. Is it easier for some to call the whole thing off than to delve in to the intricacies, details and complexities of female sexuality? Is female sexuality scary to these "purists" in no small part because they do not understand it? And if so, do any of them betray any knowledge of this?

JESSICA: You know, someone else called me on this the other day and I think you're totally right. So now it's back to the drawing board on how to mark sex!

I also think that you're right that a lot of the virginity movement stuff is mired in a real fear of female sexuality and ignorance of women's sexual pleasure. I mean, a large part of their message is that women don't enjoy sex as much as men and that's why it's important for us to be chaste! The only time it seems to be okay for women to enjoy sex is within the confines of a marriage, and even then you should be enjoying yourself because you're doing God's work and having babies, not because you might like the actual act.

Q: I found it interesting and very timely that, just 24 pages into the book, you counted "pageant queens who run on abstinence platforms" as part of a group of women whom Americans honor for not having sex. What are your thoughts on Miss California, Carrie Prejean, who has become an anti-gay marriage activist and, I believe, is a self-described virgin? How does she fit into the Purity Myth, and how does the purchase - by the Miss California organization - of breast implants for her (which in my mind, serve as a way in which to increase her sexual marketability) work with and/or against this Purity Myth?

JESSICA: I know, it's so telling that these pageant stories keep coming up over and over again! I didn't realize that Prejean identified as a virgin; that makes sense though. I've written about her recently, and what really strikes me is how – as I write in the book – American culture enjoys knocking beautiful women down a peg or two. Now, I am certainly no fan of Prejean and I think her bigoted comments are definitely ripe for analysis – but I think there's a way to do that without talking about her breasts, or trying to slut shame her. And that's what the bulk of the media coverage has been about – enjoying her fall from the pedestal.

But absolutely, the fact that the Miss California organization subsidized breast implants speaks volumes about the way we value women's bodies. I find it so incredibly hypocritical (though par for the course under the purity myth) that this organization would pay to hypersexualize Prejean and then be upset when a somewhat sexual picture of her pops up. Come on.

Q: I was really interested in your repeated mentions of the absence of women of color in the Virginity Industrial Complex, and how the "desirable virgin is...young, white, and skinny." (I wonder if it's any coincidence that the title of the Abstinence Clearinghouse's 2007 conference was "Abstinence Is a Black and White Issue: Purity vs. Promiscuity".) In your research for the book, did you come across ANY advocates for abstinence and/or abstinence-only education who were men or women of color? Why hasn't this aspect of the abstinence movements been given more press, you think?

JESSICA: Oh my god, even better from the Abstinence Clearinghouse's conference was when one year they had a "Wizard of Oz" theme. One of their panels was named "A Horse of a Different Color" – it was the hip-hop dance group. Yeah.

Regarding the absence of women of color in the perfect virgin model – that's been around for a long time, of course. Feminists like bell hooks have been talking about the way black women's bodies are positioned as hypersexual for years. (Mostly because it's a great way for men to have an excuse for sexual assault – you can't "dirty" something that was already "unclean.")

The thing is, there is certainly an abstinence movement in communities of color and purity advocates who are people of color – but they're not really shown in the mainstream abstinence movement. What do you see in the media? You see purity balls and "perfect virgins." What you're also much more likely to see is the white leadership of purity organizations holding up young white women as examples of perfect virgins. I remember watching this great documentary, Abstinence Comes to Albuquerque, and noticing that all of the teachers and abstinence leaders were overwhelmingly white Christian women, and that many of the students were Latina youth.

When you do see abstinence being targeted at young women of color, there's not the same kind of talk of purity – it's more about targeting a group of women that the movement has already focused on as "troubled," and already-sexual.

Q: I'd also like to hear more about the complex intersection of chastity movements with various feminist movements regarding both movements' denunciation of the sexualization of young girls and the marketing of consumer goods to them (i.e. t shirts, panties, etc. with "naughty girl" messages.) What do you think about this crossover? Is there one? Are there other ways in which the two camps intersect/agree? Why or why not? What are your general thoughts on this?

JESSICA: Well I think the biggest difference is that the virginity movement denounces the sexualization of young women and girls, but fights back against it with more sexualization. After all, how is it not focusing on young women's sexuality by talking constantly about their virginity or bringing them to purity balls? If you are telling young women over and over that what's most important is their virginity, that what makes them valuable is their chastity – then you're sending the message that it's the body and sexuality that defines who they are.

With the consumer goods, I found it so, so telling that that abstinence educators and purity pushers would rail against sex, female sexuality in particular, and then sell "Virgins are hot" t-shirts! It's just too funny. Of course, folks could argue that third wave feminism does something similar in its adopting pin-up sexuality, etc, but the big difference of course is that with feminists we're choosing what kind of sexuality we'd like to put out there; with the virginity movement it's adults (and a lot of men) deciding what appropriate sexuality is for younger women. It's anyone and everyone except young women themselves defining young women's sexuality.

Q: You talk quite a bit about the rise of Real Dolls in Chapter 4. What do you think those in the Virginity Movement would make of these dolls and the men who use them? According to their definition of what "sex" is, a male penetrating a real doll would not be "sex" - therefore, I assume that the use of one by a male "virgin" would be a way of maintaining his integrity?

JESSICA: Well, a lot of folks in the virginity movement think that any sexual activity – even masturbation – is sex, so I'm sure they would disapprove! What I found really interesting about Real Dolls, and why I focused on them, is that they pretty much embody what the virginity movement (and our porned culture) thinks of as the perfect woman: there for male pleasure, and unable to voice any opinion whatsoever.

Q: A lot has changed since you researched and wrote this book - the election of a new president, the resignation of a Supreme Court justice, a renewed focus on women's health, gains towards same sex marriage rights in various states etc. - how do you see the events of the past few months affecting the realities regarding abortion rights and sex education you described in the book? How do you see them affecting the virginity movement, with its focus on "sex" as heterosexual intercourse, and its definition of "marriage" as being between a man and a woman?

JESSICA: A lot has definitely changed – and for the better. But unfortunately, I don't think the new administration and some of the legislative gains are going to mean the end of the virginity movement or the obsession with young women's virginity. I think it's incredibly important, of course, that we continue to fight those policy battles – but we have a whole culture to take on as well, and that's the harder fight. Abstinence organizations are in the process of rebranding themselves right now – especially after all of the recent public embarrassments they've gone through from Bristol Palin to study after study proving their infectiveness. So I don't think they're going anywhere. It's up to us to make sure that we fight back against them even harder now, not rest on our laurels.

Q: I'm also curious about the intersection of the Virginity Industrial Complex with the Wedding Industrial Complex. In fact, in Chapter 5, you quote Martha Kempner as saying that abstinence only programs and "educators" are sending the message that "purity is the most important thing and what [young women] should be striving for is a wedding." I'd like to hear you explore the intersection of virginity industry and the wedding industry a little more.

JESSICA: Yes! Well, the big climax (if you will) for virginity movement gals is getting married naturally – because that's when you get to have sex! So many abstinence classes and messages are framed around weddings, marriage and having children. (My favorite example of this is an abstinence billboard that shows a woman in a wedding dress and the tagline: Wait for the bling.) Politically and socially I find it awful because it's promoting this really regressive message that the most important thing to women is getting hitched. I find it personally pretty obnoxious as well because there's a really explicit message there that if you do wait to have sex, then your marriage is better and more pure than others'. That kind of gross moral superiority just pisses me off.

Q: One last thing. Am I sick for giggling maniacally and thinking "impure" thoughts after reading the passage on page 68 from a purity ball promotional item in which the young girl, Katie, goes on a "date" with her dad and says, in response to what flavor of ice cream she would like, says, "I'll have chocolate, Daddy"?

JESSICA: Maybe a little sick, but no sicker than the most of us.

Jessica Valenti is the founder and editor in chief of Feministing.com. In addition to The Purity Myth, she is the author of He's A Stud, She's A Slut, Full Frontal Feminism and co-author of Yes Means Yes. Questions for her? Leave them in the comments and we'll try to get answers.

MOE: So let us consider the concert we just attended. For starters, that guy Paul. When I broke up with my last boyfriend I met him through our mutual friend Don, who introduced me to breakup songs other than Divorce Song, such as I Want You by Elvis Costello and Go On Ahead, also by Liz Phair, which is probably underappreciated.

JESS: oh that's one of my favorites from whitechocolatespace egg
and randomly i knew paul through my old job as a music critic, which feels like another lifetime

MOE: But yeah, so…what made you feel oldest last night? The $13 drinks? The fact that half the males in attendance were not graying but actually GRAY? Or lyrics like "You're probably shy and introspective that's not part of my objective I just want your fresh young jimmy cramming slamming ramming in me"

JESS: that was also the time when "fuck and run" really meant something to me
also they were all wearing button downs over their paunches
the graying men that is

MOE: Also we went to a nice restaurant afterwards with Kara Jesella and Marisa Meltzer, who wrote the Sassy book, and they were playing Portishead's second album, to which I knew all the words, and in the car they played both SWV and Tevin Campbell and I knew all the words and in the club after the show they played Bjork's Homogenic and seriously EVERYTHING ABOUT THE NIGHT WAS SO FUCKING NINETIES except, of course, for the prices, which ranged from $16 for my sandwich to upwards of three hundred for whatever cute shoes Kara was probably wearing and, um, oh my god it is so not the nineties anymore, because in the nineties it was our parents who were re-purchasing their record collections on CD and investing in new Dolby sound systems and Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow was the Clintons' campaign anthem only ironically all ANYONE was thinking about was yesterday, except us! Because Liz Phair was so amazing and cool and revolutionary and ALTERNATIVE.

JESS: um, see, i always though of it as more or less adolescent instead of 90s per se
but maybe the 90s was about indulging your extended adolescence!
though i feel it will ring true for generations of disaffected teens tk

MOE: Basically what I am saying is that our corner of New York is a pricey nineties theme park, one someone is surely working hard to duplicate in Dubai, and so, when she said she always thought of Exile — she just called it Exile, right? — as a "New York album" I found that distinctly problematic.
Because in New York none of us would have fallen in love with those losers and Liz Phair anyway would be in therapy.

JESS: well that was just pandering, but perhaps in our corner of new york everyone is pandering
to us and our neurosis!
so at this point liz phair is a simulacrum of liz phair
is that what you're getting at?

MOE: Sort of, and like, if I were listening to this album today or here, "Never Said" might be my favorite song. But like, "Shatter" and "Strange Loop" would have seemed off.
Stratford-On-Guy and Johnny Sunshine as opposed, you know, to "Canary"

JESS: But! That's because we're olds now
not because it's the aughts

MOE: But last night, thooooose were the songs I sang loudest

JESS: I mean I think it's an intensely personal album

MOE: And didn't have to think about the words to.

JESS: I still relate to Canary
Because I am a pollyanna!
Who wishes she were more transgressive

MOE: Yeah I don't think I've related to Canary for a little while, but that's because Catholic education makes everyone feel like a disobedient fuckup I guess.

JESS: When I hear Fuck and Run now, it's like watching a sepia-toned film reel

MOE: I'm not going to be ashamed that "I have a lot of work to do" is something that gets said in the morning post sex in my case fairly often. I guess because I'm usually the one to say it. But yeah, I remember listening to that song over and over again in the late stages of my first relationship and thinking, "Wait, that used to be me. I wonder if it still is me!" Hahahaha and almost ten years later why yes it is! Just not every day.

JESS: I sometimes miss it
it was exciting
the fuck and run period
I still relate Stratford-on-Guy
relate to

MOE: So Marisa had seen the documentary, which is apparently crap. (A lot of these movies are I guess, though my sister liked the Wilco movie, which I still haven't seen, but there was this hardcore movie out recently and I saw it in LA and it was soooooo goddamn bad, it was like they hadn't even read Our Band Could Be Your Life. Anyway, the important part is here is the trailer and apparently Steve Albini of Urge Overkill was there and he was NOT looking hot.

JESS: OMG I was so sad i missed seeing him
It needs to be said that Liz was looking hot
It also needs to be said that perhaps it's the HWC
sorry. I needed to get that out of my system.

MOE: Ew ew ew. Personally, I think she should lay off the highlights and tight
dresses. And the lipgloss that be poppin. Just me. But whatever, yes, she looked hot. MILFy. Made me want to lay off the Parliaments I guess.
Oh my god, watch the trailer, that guy we met last night is in it! Who became friends with Liz somehow. Which is so cool! I would have talked to him, but I think I was too drunk and also, distracted by the Portishead.

JESS: I think her hair might have been a weave though! I peeped it closely when we came in

MOE: See, I like how she looks about 1:35 into this trailer.

JESS: but we did discover that his girlfriend also has her period super frequently, JUST LIKE US
DAVE MATTHEWS?
why is she only talking to dudes about it though

MOE: Wait, Dave Matthews is in it? I thought it was just some guys who looked like Dave Matthews. Oh wait, because the reissue is on his label, like Ben Kweller. I read once that she owned her masters which is why she could do that. Smart! I think she is talking to dudes because it's about Guyville. Obviously their antipathy is a lot more interesting than our adulation. Or maybe it's not. I so wish they'd interviewed Hitchens. Memo to Graydon Carter: command Hitchens to review this movie immediately!

JESS: hahahahahahahah
WELL her band was also all dudes
Except for that one bitch who got up to sing FLower
It's not necessarily a judgment, merely an observation.
That was definitely Dave Matthews. His voice is really distinctive

MOE: Actually I don't think Brits really get Liz Phair, which is one of the reasons I listened to it so much in Hong Kong, and also ironic, considering that the Stones are British…I think the Brits understand Liz Phair perhaps less than they understand Cantonese. But anyway, this is a thing: is there a British counterpart? Justine Frischmann was also a heroine (heh) of mine but she was so much genuinely cooler than Liz Phair. Which is why I don't think she's doing very much right now. Though she gave the world M.I.A. (Rad.)

Dave Matthews fucked like half the girls in the Virginia high schools' classes 1992-98. I was not in that half though.

JESS: oh i LOOOOOOOVe justine
what about P.J. Harvey
she's a limey

MOE: But like, Justine was more of a Kim Gordon type right? well no Kim Gordon held it together.

JESS: Also Justine was never as personal. I always felt Elastica's music was more fun than thoughtful necessarily
Kim Gordon is another can of worms
maybe Justine is like Kim Deal

MOE: But Liz was not like that, she did not desire to be a scene elder, she just wanted to tell those guys off and then go live happily ever after I guess. Good for her! But no, I don't really think that, the same way I don't really think it's true that "You can be shallow and deep and read celebrity tabloids and the Zimbabwe election and there's no conflict" the way Kim France would have you believe. There's only so much time, and just because those guys are pricks doesn't mean you necessarily should have wasted yours getting made over by Avril Lavigne, Liz! Although Linda Hirshman would probably approve since you were just trying to get paid.

JESS: Yeah, I thought that was her entire rationale
she has a kid now
she needs to make some cash

actually, i wrote this open letter to liz after her disastrous chicks with attitude tour

wow, even reading things i wrote four years ago is really embarrassing

MOE: Everything about the past is embarrassing. Like, reading this exchange in 10 minutes when I post it: probably gonna be embarrassing.

UPDATE: Yeah guys, I know who Steve Albini is because, as I pointed out, I read that book Our Band Could Be Your Life, I just had a brainfart, thanks for your concerns. The guy Marisa saw was actually named Nash Kato, which is totally the name of someone you'd think was really cool in the nineties.

ANNA: A few weeks ago a reader wrote in to me complaining about the items we've
done on women in, specifically, India, saying that she was sick of the fact that we link to the more horrific stories regarding women and girls on the Indian sub-Continent...rape, murder, abuse, etc. The blog post she was upset about regarded a piece in a British paper we linked to about pre-teens selling their virginity to adult men in India in order to financially help their families. The reader referred to our — and by "our" I mean the editors and the commenters — "smug First World selves" and railed against our collective "ignorance" and "condescension". I responded to her saying that I understood where she was coming from but that in terms of stories about women and India, we were strapped: 99% of the stories that concern women that we find coming out of that area of the world are negative and/or upsetting, and we don't even post 90% of THOSE. I added that we work with what we can find, which, in the English language media, is coming either from American news sources, British news sources, or news sources in India that are available in English. We want to acknowledge the problems and horrors faced by women in other countries, but we often get attacked for doing so. What are some tactics that we — and other American, Western media properties — can approach these with more sensitivity?

LATOYA: Ha. I completely understand where she is coming from. Often times, western media tends to promote the things that are sensationalist like teen girls selling their virginity to feed their families or what Ebony magazine termed "disaster pornography" - things like famine, starvation, and suffering that tend to get people to wince and then open their wallets. I can't specifically speak to India, but since I notice this a lot with stories about the African continent. For example, take the elections in Kenya that happened late last year. If you were paying attention, you would know that there was a lot of tension leading up to those elections - so an allegation came in that someone won unfairly and riots broke out. However, when this news was reported, the headline was "Tribal Warfare Breaks Out in Kenya!"

Sensationalist stories grab our attention a lot faster than regular, day in the life stories. It's like the piece with Malawi I posted on last year - the article about how badly the World Bank and donor nations (US) screwed Malawi over in terms of offering them aid money with conditions attached that would keep them dependent on foreign aid dollars. Since people in Malawi were starving, the government made an executive decision to risk losing the money - and we are talking hundreds of millions of dollars - and to instead try to save their people from starvation. And they did it! That article got no play, whatsoever. Buried in the world section of the NY Times.

Late last month I read that profile of Madonna in Vanity Fair and saw all of these assertions about Malawi - and by extension Africa - and they rang false to me because of articles and books I had read earlier. And the article Madonna/Vanity Fair had all kinds of biased reporting - saying Africa when it really meant one specific country, asserting that Africans practice witchcraft when most Africans are Christian or Muslim, saying AIDS is killing the continent but never discussing how things like cuts to international family planning funds, the global gag rule, and allowing faith based programs to use development dollars to take their "abstinence only" ideas overseas. But, as many of my readers pointed out, they would have never made the connections from one thing to the other; since we have all been fed the idea that Africa is poor just because, we never question things like asking WHY African nations are so indebted or WHY AIDS is still spreading at alarming rates. We would just rather fill in our assumptions and keep reading about Madge's new album.

So part of the battle is asking the question "Why?" You'd be surprised at where that will lead you.

It's important that we begin to familiarize ourselves with international policy and politics. Keep in mind, when we read newspapers and other forms of media, there are subconsciously things that we skip - things that don't really pertain to our lives and don't make sense to us. Keep in mind, I read most of the same news sources you do. But the things I read make more sense to me because I acquired some background knowledge on some of the more intimidating topics.

Finally, realize that things aren't always death, destruction and horror - those are just the discussions that jump out at us the most. Over the last month, I've read articles about the development going on in African nations that revolve around technology. The NYT Magazine did a great article on Jan Chipchase who studies human behavior for Nokia and goes into developing nations to figure out how to sell them cell phones. Fast Company just published a piece on how Google is moving to create an internet presence in Africa, even though only 5% of people have access to internet. They feel it will be a huge growth project. Another business magazine talked about how the internet played a huge role in the rise of India's development - by mastering English, the population has been able to take advantage of the lucrative outsourcing market. And they also discussed the rise of cities and changes in traditional culture, as well as how "call center culture" has launched chick-lit novels and movies and the new prototype of the young urban Indian professional. So there is tons of information out there in mainstream media sources - we just tend to overlook it.

ANNA: I hear you on this. I think what I keep coming back to is 1. Issues of
time (we don't have the luxury of time to educate ourselves as broadly and quickly as we'd
like - blogging is quick business!) and 2. Women-specific issues (most of the stories we find regarding women are negative in nature because women around the world are, for the most part, not treated very well.). But here are some other questions: Is it "disaster pornography" to pick up on the stories written by actual, mainstream media outlets about the plight(s) of women around the world? Do we have to ALWAYS ALWAYS question them, at least those that seem pretty clear-cut? Why can't 12-year-old girls selling their virginity in India just be what it is, which is — to many cultures — horrific? Why CAN'T people put value judgments on such things sometimes without being accused of being colonialist, paternalistic, patronizing...even racist? And lastly, what do you think the inherent problems are with Westerners reporting back from non-Western countries, particularly on women's issues? Can a white, European woman living and working the Mideast never tell the full "truth" of her adopted society because of her background? Can an Asian-American woman in, say, South Africa not do the same? And lastly, because so many areas of the world (particularly the female populations in those areas) are in need of support, both financially and politically, what is so wrong with getting people to wince and open their wallets, particularly in an era in which superficial shit like celebrity adulation is so rampant that we have pageant contestants calling Iraq "the Iraq" and a decline in newspaper and book readership?

LATOYA: Anna, you have to understand that those excuses are just that - excuses. Here's why I say that - you all are great (seriously, fucking great) at calling out sexist assumptions about women in the media. You read an article and can instantly pick up on all the bullshit buzzwords and baseless assumptions that someone has concocted to prove their points about women being weaker/less intelligent/more emotional, etc. It's second nature to you, right? But I bet it wasn't always that way. You have to educate yourself about these issues in order to have that framework in your mind to challenge them. So the same way you learned to critically dissect the lies that women's magazines use to sell issues - it's the same thing. No one wakes up with a working knowledge of sexism, power dynamics in sexual relationships, eloquent critiques of impossible beauty ideals and a deep understanding about how strict adherence to gender roles in society causes tons of issues. You had to learn that.

So, in this case, the answer is learn. You aren't going to be able to fully comprehend everything about everything out of the box. Like I said in one of my posts on Racialicious, it took me about three months to stop fighting against the mass media programming that poorer nations are just a bunch of whiny complainers who want to be like America. So it will take a while.

Women are treated like shit around the world, this is very true. Women are also treated like shit in beacon of freedom America, particularly when you start considering issues like race, class, and immigration. But, just like there are kick ass things American women do every day, there are kick ass things that women around the world are doing too.

But to specifically answer your questions:

1. Yes, we always have to question because if we don't, we contribute to that whole narrative that the US is this great paragon of equality and every place else is some kind of human cesspool. Again, back to the Madonna/Malawi example - you could post on "starving babies in Malawi" and people go "oh no!" because that's what they are conditioned to do and we go buy a $24.00 bracelet that sends a dollar overseas, we mention about the horrendous situation there with our friends over cocktails and then roll right back into whatever stuff is affecting us right this minute. And no one talks about the World Bank, which is the leading reason why kids in Malawi are starving to death, and business moves as usual.

I am not saying that every other nation has no problems and nothing bad ever happens. But, it is kind of strange when we can post about the horrible shit that goes on in say, Italy (like your post on how 70% of Italian gynos refuse to perform abortions, even though they are legal) and have counterposts talking about cool/interesting things like how the Italian police department petitioned for more fashionable uniforms or the issues with modern dating in Italy. It provides a balanced view of the country. But that kind of balanced view never manages to make it over to African or South East Asian countries. So while we can read the literature and watch the movies coming out of those countries - there has to be SOMETHING else going on, some kind of larger social/cultural scene that is creating these works of art and lit - for some reason, our news reporting pretends that the only time they are worthy of our notice is when someone is suffering or something horrendous goes down. The answer is not to stop reporting on these events completely - just to be aware that these events do not exist in a vaccuum.

2. Value judgments are a tricky thing. In general, there is a problem with people conflating two separate issues and making them one. So, for example, let's take the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia. I think we can all generally agree that it is fucked up when some citizens are entitled to more rights than others based solely on gender, and that's what Saudi Arabia does. However, the problems come in when people start sticking blanket value judgments that don't necessarily apply to that situation - like saying Islam is responsible for the situation in Saudi Arabia. Umm, no. Some fuckheads in power got together and said this is how it's going down and we're going to justify it using Islam. There are 52 nations that are Muslim Majority countries and that's not how they roll. Look at Turkey - it is a nation that is 99% Muslim. 99%! And they have a very secular government system. Malaysia, Ethiopia, Morocco, Indonesia, Bangledesh - plenty of nations are Muslim and they have different systems set up. But people tend to stick one issue in because that's what they think that is what is happening and miss the bigger picture.

Fatemeh, the publisher of the Muslimah Media Watch blog also points out how condescending it is to want to "help" women in a foreign country without listening to them. We tend to infantilize them (example here) and act as those these poor poor women don't have minds of their own and can't speak for themselves, never realizing that they are actively engaging in these issues - just not necessarily where we can see. From the little I know about Muslimah feminism, people who still actively adhere to Islamic principles tend to work within those guidelines while fighting for equality. Our idea of equality may not be the same as what they want. So, for western people, it's a really big fucking deal if Muslim women take off their veils and wear lipstick. To them, it's kind of whatever, they want to focus on employment options and pay equality.

3. In terms of wincing and wallets, let me just say that there is nothing wrong with being informed. The problem is that we respond, crack the wallet, and we aren't informed. So who knows where the money is going and what it is being used for? Think about it this way - we give out billions of dollars in foreign food aid per year - so why haven't we solved world hunger yet? We waste enough food in America to feed quite a few nations, so the issue is more complicated than just food. We need to critically look at where this money is going and who is benefiting. There are also great ways to get involved that don't involve much money and make a longer lasting impact. Want to end hunger? Start lobbying congress, volunteering with NGOs, raise awareness about how the IMF is "the Typhoid Mary" of international development. (Yes, Jeffrey Sachs' said that — read this sitting down.) Or, looking at how governmental organizations and non governmental organizations have tons of money but can't seem to get it together do fix actual problems, even when said problems could be fixed for about $10,000 (see here). So, there are steps to take that would be more helpful in the long run but people just don't ask questions.

By the way, westerners can report on non-western issues, as can expats living in other countries. The issue is not that they are not entitled to have an opinion, it is just that many times that opinion may be ill-informed and may not have the whole story. So, I think western journalists in particular have an obligation to tread lightly in areas that are not directly our own - after all, since we shape of lot of world policy, our words may have serious consequences.

Related: Meet The Neo-Colonialists: Madonna And Vanity Fair [Racialicious]

She didn't really provide much scientific evidence, but I think we both learned to respect our differences. Also, all the girls and the one gay I IM-ed pretty much said they were built for monogamy, though I didn't ask Tracie, and she'd probably disagree. Meanwhile, the only straight dude I asked, my ex-boyfriend, said he was not. Too bad I never sensed that from the pheromones he emitted!

MOE: Ok, so this interview you sent me is really interesting
MOE: But i was trying to determine who, the interviewer or the TIME guy, you took issue with
MOE: the interviewer irked me more

POLLYPOCKET: yeah they were both sort of swirling in a pool of awfulness
POLLYPOCKET: what i didn't like as I told Anna is the idea that they're still trying to talk about how marriage is some kind of baseline
POLLYPOCKET: as if the only real kind of "romance" we should worry about is marriage
POLLYPOCKET: even though all scientific evidence shows that we weren't built to marry or be monogamous
POLLYPOCKET: also the thing about women tricking men with birth control was heinous

MOE: well that was the interviewer

POLLYPOCKET: but I was really pissed about the time mag package in general
POLLYPOCKET: where they say "romance is this chemical illusion" but then use that as an excuse to basically say well so you just have to fight biology and stay married kids

MOE: Well, I see it as part of the whole "evolutionary biology is the new socialization" trend.

POLLYPOCKET: yeah
POLLYPOCKET: it is very much part of htat

MOE: But that's not what he said.
MOE: He said the chemistry of early romance was an unsustainable chemical state

POLLYPOCKET: exactly
POLLYPOCKET: but then he goes on to basically talk about how "dangerous" it is to try to find that state again
POLLYPOCKET: because it disrupts family, etc

MOE: Well, see
MOE: I think that's true
MOE: But I'm specifically thinking of men.

POLLYPOCKET: I think it's true if you build your whole society around the idea of monogamous marriage being the best way to raise kids
POLLYPOCKET: which it obviously isn't
POLLYPOCKET: nuclear family suxx

MOE: Hahaha what's your proposal?
MOE: BRING BACK THE ORPHANAGE

POLLYPOCKET: well we've only had this obsession with the nuke family in the US for about a century
POLLYPOCKET: I think extended families, kinship networks, more laxity in terms of being "faithful" — having an understanding that people can fuck around and have those happy chemicals without it having to undermine their family life
POLLYPOCKET: I mean, why not have a nice kinship network for your family/kids, but also have the chance to have little romances on the side?
POLLYPOCKET: that's truer to biology
POLLYPOCKET: and more fun
POLLYPOCKET: (c.f. Woman on the Edge of Time)
POLLYPOCKET: not that "being true to biology" is always a good thing . . .
POLLYPOCKET: /soapbos
POLLYPOCKET: box

MOE: See, I think the problems you're attributing to the "nuclear family" have more to do with poor urban planning.

POLLYPOCKET: Hmm

MOE: Not that we have discussed those problems
MOE: I also kind of hate falling in love though.
MOE: "Early romance" is not my bag.

POLLYPOCKET: Yeah it feels like taking a lot of speed
POLLYPOCKET: I hate it too

MOE: Hahahaha I take speed every day.

POLLYPOCKET: I mean, it's like the crawly awful part of the speed

MOE: to me it's like heroin.
MOE: Not that I would know

POLLYPOCKET: yeah I think heroin is actually supposed to be nice while it lasts
POLLYPOCKET: what I mean, is that you feel all crazed and tooth grindy and paranoid during that early love stuff
POLLYPOCKET: which makes sense it's the same chemicals that give you the meth high
POLLYPOCKET: anyway all I was saying was that I think it's weird that we have all this scientific evidence that humans are not really built for monogamous marriage
POLLYPOCKET: and it's weird that we keep insisting that's the way to go

MOE: So yeah, I don't know how much is socialization and how much is evolution and how much is just my particular set of genes, but I am very good at the middle stage of a relationship. And I really really want to find someone who agrees. But I had a happy childhood living in a city around lots of other kids etc. etc. so that's my narrative. But I definitely think I personally am built for monogamous marriage.

POLLYPOCKET: I think some people clearly are

MOE: However

POLLYPOCKET: But you might be an outlier

MOE: Hahaha I am on everything else
MOE: why not this

POLLYPOCKET: yeah, I think it's probably a spectrum (just like sexuality)

MOE: EXACTLY

POLLYPOCKET: some are totally mono, some are "sometimes mono," some are polyamorous freaks like me (I have 3 partners, I know gross)

MOE: Now, if only those same pheromones that attract you to a person with a different immune system
MOE: Could attract you to someone with the same views on monogamy.

POLLYPOCKET: yeah

MOE: So you have three partners
MOE: This is like Springer!
MOE: I kid

POLLYPOCKET: I do think that if our culture wasn't so obsessed with monogamy, it might be easier for a mono person and a poly person to be together without stigma
POLLYPOCKET: I know I am total springer material

MOE: OK so your partners

POLLYPOCKET: you don't know the half of it

MOE: are they poly?
MOE: Are they into each other?

POLLYPOCKET: they are NOT into each other that would be livejournal scary

MOE: hahaa
MOE: are they into others?

POLLYPOCKET: drama times four hundred
POLLYPOCKET: yeah they are poly too
POLLYPOCKET: well two of them are geeks, so they are poly when they can find others who crave Linux

MOE: hahaha
MOE: well you live in San Francisco right?

POLLYPOCKET: yup — home of sexual deviance
POLLYPOCKET: and Linux lvoers

MOE: SF is its own socialization

POLLYPOCKET: that's certainly true
POLLYPOCKET: though there is a giant poly network in Boston too for some reason
POLLYPOCKET: they all buy giant houses together
POLLYPOCKET: scary

MOE: Hahaha bc they're too cold to have the energy to go out and fuck around in Boston.

MOE: well i am a big believer in pheromones

POLLYPOCKET: me too
POLLYPOCKET: there are people I can't do because of how they smell (and I don't mean they smell bad or anything)

MOE: andwhat i do not understand is why some dudes just indiscriminately try to fuck girls that way

POLLYPOCKET: yeah I know several guys like that

MOE: it takes a very specific chemical mix to me

POLLYPOCKET: it's sort of like OCD — "try this one" "try this one"

MOE: ok, here's a question, poly gay lady!

POLLYPOCKET: hahah poly bi lady please
POLLYPOCKET: I want to sound as 70s as possible

MOE: with lesbians, are you ALSO attracted to pheromones of ppl with opposite immune systems?

POLLYPOCKET: I might be a bad person to ask about this because I prefer boys

MOE: oooh

POLLYPOCKET: And the girls I like are usually tomboys

MOE: ahhhhh

POLLYPOCKET: I loooooove tomboys holy shit
POLLYPOCKET: and I like girly guys who remind me of tomboys

MOE: me too i like tomboy girls like samantha ronson

At this point the conversation becomes ridiculous and somewhat unpublishable. But it ended well!

POLLYPOCKET: kthxbai

Anna: ok so let's talk about animal planet. as you know, what prompted me to want to do this chat now as opposed to an undetermined time in the future is that i may have mistakenly given the impression in a post that i don't like the channel. a commenter questioned it, so i felt the need to set the record straight. also: it is a SLOOOOW news week so animals are always a good go-to.

Megan: animal planet: obviously, i am completely addicted as well.

Anna: so i want to know: when did you start watching, how many hours a week, and what are your favorite shows/who favorite personalities?

Megan: ok, how I started watching is a complete embarrassment, but it was one of
the animal cops shows- NY or San Francisco, I can't say. because there's hardly anything on at 10:00 on weeknights and I would be like, awwww, poor puppy/kitty/horsie/swan whatever and be totally hooked for an hour.

Anna: haha SWAN

Megan: and then it's all like, yay! new home! omg, did you not see the episode in NYC with the swan? these meanies killed a swan that was nesting and they saved the little swan eggs and everything

Anna: no! i never saw that one.

Megan: one of the "cops" was keeping them warm in her coat!

Anna: did the people get charged? the meanies?

Megan: no. they like, shot it with an arrow it was very sad.

Anna: ugh. i don't get that. see, that's one thing i don't like about the animal cops shows: the people sometimes get off scot-free

Megan: not in Texas. it's like completely awesomely Texas-y that one person an episode in Texas just gets hosed

Anna: one reason to like texas!

Megan: in NY and Detroit, hardly ever. it's usually the horse-abusers, who are always truly awful.

Anna: sometimes when the agents are dealing with the abusers, i wonder: how do they stay so CALM? cause i'm often about to put my fist through the fucking TV screen and why don't they yell more? that's one thing that bugs me. they don't really ever chew them out. at least not to MY liking.

Megan: sometimes they aren't, which is even more awesome. i've definitely seen people- even the gruff dudes (NY and Detroit again) like tear up. and i've totally seen people get ripped new ones. see, i obviously watch this alot.

Anna: well then you are watching the right episodes and i am watching the WRONG ONES. one awesome thing: the women in animal precinct (the show set in nyc) are often parked outside the deli and diner in my neighborhood in queens, getting coffee/food. i was starstruck when i saw the blonde woman... annemarie lucas. i waved, albeit shyly

Megan: see, i like the really rough-seeming ones, because they're soooo cute to see go ga-ga over the animals

Anna: the men?

Megan: yeah. annemarie seems like an animal person, more than a cop. well, a couple of the lady cops look like they could do some damage, and then they're all like, kitty kitty kitty and it's totally sweet. and there's that lady in detroit

Anna: the heavyseat one with the curly dark hair?

Megan: yeah, her in detroit, too. she could take someone down. and the black dudes in detroit are cute!. but she could kick my ass halfway into next week.

Anna: i wonder if they have groupies

Megan: omg, they HAVE to have groupies. i would totally hit on them in a bar, are you kidding?

Anna: haha ME TOO . so the horses bother you the most. they bother me for sure, but so do the puppies and adult dogs

Megan: well, let's not get me wrong, the dog situations are usually horrifying and sad and awful

Anna: embedded collars, etc.

Megan: but with the horses, we're talking months and months and months of starvation if not years, whereas a dog I can at least pretend that it's like 6 weeks, tops

Anna: yes. there was a family of pigs on a recent episode of one of the shows (phoenix maybe?) that were being starved and that really got to me. which is perhaps hypocritical because i eat them?

Megan: plus, then, the owners are always like, but i just rode him last week, and you've got this horse that weighs less than me. no, the starving piggies are sad, too. i mean, a starving pet is just terrible. my friends feel bad if they forget to feed their dog at 7 and do so at 8

Anna: i would like for someone to start a blog with the names/email addresses of the abusive owners seen on those shows so that... so that... i dunno. i could write to them and tell them off? send them a care package of shit? something?

Megan: flaming bags of poo would, i think, be completely appropriate. (unrelated point: i know a lobbyist who had that done to him at his office door)

Anna: hahaha. i know a guy who got a baby ruth bar, melted it slightly (just slightly) in an office microwave, shaped it a bit with his fingers, and laid it in the bed of a pair of tightey whiteys and left that on his office mate's desk. the company sent out a memo the next day saying they were looking for the perp and that they'd had the substance tested and it was found to be human feces

Megan: lmao

Anna: right?

Megan: what does that say about poo?

Anna: speaking of poo? there isn't a lot of shit to be found on animal planet. my experience is that animals generate a LOT of shit

Megan: It might be Discovery instead of AP, but Mike Rowe on Dirty Jobs on whom I have an enormous crush deals in animal poo all the time. They need to get an animal poo roundup show with him on AP.

Anna: oooh good one!

Megan: But, you're right. Miss Adventure would be the only one who would ever traffic in poo

Anna: i think jeff corwin has made some shit jokes

Megan: Jeff Corwin would. And he's cute.

Anna: and he's funny. even though his jokes can be kinda lame?

Megan: And Jeff Corwin always seems to end up wet. Sorta like Mike Rowe ends up shirtless a lot. I think they're playing to our baser natures, and I'm fine with that.

Anna: you should ask your friend who works for AP but, do they have two distinct demographics? young males who like lizards and snakes and then women, who like the cuddly creatures and hot guys?

Megan: Ummm, I'm going to guess that they mostly gear towards kids and women. Because I like lizards and snakes and it's really education, and the only men I know who are devoted watchers are gay.

Anna: on the plane back from california the other day, i was watching the new orangutan show on AP and paul was watching some GUY SHOW on some other channel - south park? something - and he looked over at my screen for a bit, then changed his channel to animal planet too.it was cute

Megan: omg, i love monkeys, too. also, awww.

Anna: i love the orangutan show! i'd never seen it. i actually started crying halfway through the second episode, but that may have been the high altitude

Megan: oh, please, who doesn't cry at Animal Planet shows here and there? I think my roommate made me watch one once in college about lemurs and the lemur died and I wept.

Anna: oh i do all the time but i also don't usually go from zero (no crying) to 60 (full-on sobs) that often or, that quickly. do you like emergency vets? i think i am developing a crush on the lead doctor.

Megan: Yeah, definitely. They're after our souls! Hot guys, and Puppy Bowl? It's a winning combination.

Anna: haha. i like puppy bowl BUT i get bored quickly. speaking of, when i was on the AP site tonight loooking for a HOT IMAGE OF CORWIN i saw that AP is selling puppy bowl dvds, which, for some reason, i find ridiculous. it is a genius idea, however - puppy bowl. isn't there a kitten halftime show? or am i making that up?

Megan: but you know why I'll bet people buy puppy bowl dvds? to leave on for their dogs during the day.

Anna: which brings us to... do you have a pet?

Megan: I do not, actually. I used to work the kind of hours I felt were mean, so I'm godmother to my neighbor's dog Ronnie and I dogsit for my friends' dog Bourbon. I'm a doggie aunt.

Anna: no pet? see here's my experience with AP and pets
1. i leave AP on when i'm not home for them. sound turned down but picture on.
2. when i AM home and watching an Animal Planet show that i find upsetting, i go to them for consolation.
them = 2 cats. thing is, they could give a shit about giving me consolation

Megan: Well, they are cats.

Anna: so it's just me with wet eyes and cooing and shit. i do think they watch AP quite often. they like the meerkats

Megan: I love the meerkats. [sniffs] Poor Flower.

Anna: i'd like for your friend at Animal Planet to find out how many people leave the channel on for their animals when they leave the house. i'd think that would boost ratings!

Megan: I would bet a ton of people do. I wonder how they'd find that out? Also, I wonder if advertisers would then try to develop more pet-specific advertising, and whether it would work.

Anna: ok hot guys: who else is hot? is corwin the only one?

Megan: Well, I mean, Sean Astin voices Meerkat, and I still have a residual Goonies-era crush there. I saw him once in DC, and I got all schoolgirl about it, especially when I realized that no one else around recognized him but me because he's short-ish and just looked like any other Hill staffer if you weren't paying attention.

Anna: Ok, so, him, the 2 Detroit guys...

Megan: the snake assistant on the Miami version (Mario, I think he name is), and, frankly, the pudgy guy (Charles?) on Texas got me when he cried over a horsie dying in his arms. because i was like, awww, big teddy bear.

Anna: dude if you are going to have a proper crush on the detroit guys you need to LEARN THEIR NAMES

Megan: Sean Hairston is the one without dreds

Anna: ok one down! do u know the other one's name?

Megan: damn you! um, no I'm blanking

Anna: ok i'll give u a HINT. it's actually VERY SIMILAR to the name of a certain discovery channel hottie you mentioned earlier

Megan: so, it's Mike?

Anna: yes. and last name is just one letter different. DOWE. mike dowe

Megan: so, they're cute, plus Mario and Charles. are there actually other men? Mo Rocca used to do a voice over and he's kinda fey nerdy cute.

Anna: (note to animal planet: need more men)

Megan: there are some ripped ones on Arizona, but I hardly ever see new episodes

Anna: well there was STEVE IRWIN. but he never did it for me

Megan: nah, he never did it for me either. he was too hyper for my taste. But Jacques Cousteau's hot grandson...

Anna: why is it that men who work with animals are especially hot? i mean i get it but
i don't think that men who work with, say, children are hot. i don't think they're NOT hot but i certainly don't think they're extra hot

Megan: Well, it sorta depends on the guy, but I think we're starting to be conditioned a little to view men that works with children with a touch of suspicion. because of the relentless media coverage of pedophile teachers and coaches and stuff. but that doesn't exist with men who are good with animals, and we're projecting that they would then be good with kids, probably. also, the hot grandson is phillipe: http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/09/06/cnna.cousteau/index.html

Anna: i don't like the scruff on him. too manicured. also he has highlights? or is that just from days on the ocean?

Megan: yeah, he's looking kinda too manicured

Anna: read = GAY

Megan: well, could be but i've heard otherwise

Anna: it's the whole gay or european debate. So, did we figure out anything? were we supposed to? or were we just riffing on animal planet? oh, i wanted to know how many hours a week or day you watch it

Megan: Um, I'd have to say 5 hours a week? I really don't watch and blog because I get distracted.

Anna: yeah i turn on cnn during blogging hours. animal planet only weekend. i would like for them to do more programming on how animals are farmed in america. not judgmental just educational

Megan: oooh, yes.

Anna: because if they're airing "mature" stuff like GRIZZLY MAN they can air something about industrial food production

Megan: it's actually really interesting. I am a big educated carnivore. Grizzly Man was amazing!

Anna: i loved that movie THE FOXES! oh one last question! your avatar is a monkey right? if so, WHAT KIND???

Megan: actually, i believe it's a puppy in a costume. it used to be a lioness, but it MYSTERIOUSLY changed the time i blogged from Moe's. not that i'm accusing

Anna: hahahaha. SHE had that avatar once! it's haunting her home. well i think it's the right amount of "cute" and "intimidating"

Megan: yeah, that seems to be about my style

Earlier: The Real Beasts At Zoos Are Not Always In Cages

OMG the news is awesome today! It started when Carl Bernstein of Woodward & Bernstein i.e. Dustin Hoffman from that movie with Robert Redford, said something like celebrity culture had made everyone in America totally braindead (and also stupid!) and well, it carried on from there. We've got pothead CEOs, crackhead Chuck Krauthammer, drug laws, English teachers in Japan, Spanish speakers in America; LOADS of fun folks. Without further adozzle, y'all!

JEZEBELMOE: So today Choire sent this AP photo of Britney Spears from the AP website with a caption that said simply, "A 4-year-old can learn a lot from this woman." I think that says a little about The Bar: how low it is for folks like us. Which is a good thing because I am HUNGOVER.
LOBBYIST: Dude, I am also not fucking well this morning. I love how Carl is all like "idiot culture" is to blame! I mean, it's really just Schadenfreude because we all like feeling less idiotic by watching.
JEZEBELMOE: So let's get started. Is there any more news on the State Department guys refusing to go to Iraq because, hello, ?!&$#% #, THEY NEVER WANTED TO GO TO IRAQ. IRAQ MADE A MOCKERY OF THE WHOLE NOTION OF DIPLOMACY. EVERYTHING THOSE PEOPLE HAVE EVER ACTUALLY SINCERELY BELIEVED IN GOT DEFECATED ALL OVER BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION $%## or are they just being poor/treasonous sports?
LOBBYIST: or, you know, not wanting to die? that's also really important to some people. I mean, they didn't join the military...
JEZEBELMOE: Well yeah there's that.
LOBBYIST: I mean, it's actually funny because my impression of most people at State is that a ton of them are gung-ho to go to the scary places because that's where they can make a difference...
only, maybe they all just know they can't in Iraq and living conditions suck and they won't see the outside of the embassy compound for 2 years?
JEZEBELMOE: So did you read the Wall Street Journal page 1 story about that hospital that, thanks to the end of socialized medicine, is giving out really radical brain surgeries to people with minor mental illnesses that we'd maybe treat with a couple dozen SSRIs here?
9:19 AM LOBBYIST: So, is this what we're all in for because everyone hates the pharma companies? Less pharmaceuticals, more lobotomies?
Because I'd rather pay out of the ass for my drugs, thanks.
JEZEBELMOE: No, this is what happens when CAPITALISM eclipses DEMOCRACY
which is to say when China takes over the world!
LOBBYIST: Oh, well, that.
JEZEBELMOE: Did you ever hear that NPR thing on the guy whose father made him get a lobotomy or something? And he was mad about it? Or something like that? I've always wanted to meet someone who had gotten a lobotomy. The neighbors down the street totally had a bomb shelter with oxygen tanks when I was a little kid and I always thought it was the coolest thing in the world. And also really creepy.
LOBBYIST: Can you get mad if you had a lobotomy? Isn't that the point of one? So, like, you could read the papers and just go, oh, well, another 10,000 people died today, I think I'll have another cup of coffee?
I mean, if you prefer that to hangovers or drugs.
JEZEBELMOE: Ooooh, so celebrity culture has lobotomized everyone is what you're saying? Which is convenient since China is going to TAKE OVER EVERYTHING. Although hey, another good economic indicator! Payrolls. "payrolls" always seem to be non-farm payrolls. I always wondered what the farm payrolls were like, although I think most farming is done my machines and undocumented untouchable type workers these days. Um... wait also, I thought no one was more difficult to understand than Maureen Dowd. TRY READING CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER WTF

"But the father-son connection is nothing compared to husband-wife. The relationship between a father and an adult son is psychological and abstract; the connection between husband and wife, concrete and quotidian. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife.

The morning time is when you can read the headlines and ask yourself the obvious, but earnest questions you'd never think to address later on in the day because they sorta spoil the joke: is the middle class really disappearing in this country? Is the ever-widening income gap contributing to the rise in hate speech lately? Was that bounty hunter show as good as it sounded? We comb through the major papers (i.e. Drudge) and ask the dumb questions so you don't have to —and today we even tried to make it concise and reader-friendly so you can actually follow!

LOBBYIST: So, wtf is up with the rich and entitled this week? When did racism get so fucking trendy?

MOE: So, swastikas, nooses and the N-word. Racists: from the Ivy League to Nobels to the Aloha state, still so super-original! That's why I have trouble processing this shit. I was watching Katt Williams on CNN last night — he's that pimp-cum-stand up comedian from Atlanta who is kind of amusing if you are drunk I think — and he wore a noose as an accessory to some awards ceremony and he was just like, "You know, I'm not here to educate people who hang nooses on trees." It's like, seriously? Are you seriously serious? I can't make sense of it. Speaking of, did you ever watch Dog The Bounty Hunter? Because I didn't even know what it was, but reading about it in the wake of him being suspended for saying the N-word, it sounds like such a really great show!
Which is to say, I guess I'm glad I didn't get invested in it?

LOBBYIST: You know, I did watch it on occasion. It was a totes train wreck, the sort of thing it was hard to flip past because people were always fucked up acting crazy on it. Plus, there was a hot guy (not Dog)
But, let's just say that it was never particularly highbrow.

Also, the NYT brings us a tearful French rape victim. Only, this time, it's a man! Justice for sex crimes in the Middle East: not particularly good!
9:04 AM

MOE: Oh, I read that story, which is to say, I skimmed it because I imagined that reading it in its entirety might be overly depressing. Basically a 15-year-old French tourist got raped by three men while on vacation and there were semen samples out the ass (ha ha, LITERALLY) but they're getting treated like shit by the local authorities, who assured them all three rapists were "disease-free" when, ha ha ha, except for the one with AIDS, and part of it is a story about Muslim countries and sex crimes, and part of it is, in my mind anyway, a story about how phenomenal economic growth can so creepily mask government brutality/injustice/torture/mind control/miscellaneous fucked upness/etc.

LOBBYIST: Also, if you get forcibly sodomized, they stick a speculum in your ass.

MOE: Well that's the same with girls/vadges/rape kits, no?

LOBBYIST: Well, yes, except for the ass thing. Plus, once I had to get seen at student health services for an infection down there, and the inept mofo stuck one in my vadge without lube and swore up and down he couldn't use it without "ruining" his sample. So, again, ouch.

MOE: I also wanted to discuss with you today's stories about the economy. Growth is up, rates were cut, women are gaining parity with men, but the middle class is still vanishing, the upper-class is still getting richer as evidenced by this story about a corporate law firm giving its associates two year-end bonuses, money with which, according to the first most-emailed story in the Times today, they are outsourcing their kids' homework to where else: India!
9:14 AM
I mean, basically, I don't know if you can link income disparity to the proliferation of hate crimes in this country, but, uh, it seems to go down that way in a lot of OTHER countries, ya know? And I would like to find an answer that isn't all-out protectionism and all I can come up with is .... um some sort of tax that will put teachers' salaries in line with first year corporate law associates'?

LOBBYIST: Well, I think somewhere in the WSJ article, it basically says that the middle class isn't having sustained wage growth because those are the people that never went to college.
I mean, the guy basically said that it's a study of the rewards of a college education

MOE: College is such a crazy ponzi scheme though, you know?

LOBBYIST: So, how about why top research scientists aren't making the same as corporate law associates

MOE: Oh right, or supreme court justices!

LOBBYIST: Oh, it totes is. My grad degree was the biggest waste of intellectual effort, and yet everyone thinks it makes me soooo smart.
And it cost a fuck ton of money
The only people without college educations seeing wage growth are professional athletes and entertainers.

MOE: Well I dropped out after two years, so I would belong to the camp without a college education, and having attended probably 15% of the classes I was supposed to attend during those two years, I can tell you that everything important I learned can be summed up thusly: rich Ivy Leaguers are just as douchebaggy as middle-class suburbanites, only with less Abercrombie & Fitch.

LOBBYIST: HA. Yes, luckily I went to a college and majored in subjects where I could ignore both those types of people completely! And hang out with the other freaks and geeks.

MOE: Oh, and look what just came up over the ticker: Coal mining is back as a career path! Awesome!

LOBBYIST: Oh, yay! Just the way to get ahead in this cold, cruel world. Strap on a respirator (maybe) and head underground for manual labor in the one industry environmentalists would like to see go away more than Big Oil! Speaking of going away, I usually don't read Maureen Dowd, but is she normally this incomprehensible?

MOE: Ooooh, a Slate story about Ashkenazi Jews and how they're smarter than us.

LOBBYIST: Also, she thinks it was haughty when my crush, Nicholas Sarkozy, refused to address gossip about his wife leaving him in an interview? Yeah, I saw that. I mean, can't we file that under the phrase "good stereotypes are still stereotypes?" Plus, with all the mixed marriages with us less brainy Anglos here, that'll change soon enough. We'll breed that out if it hurts. We're all Americans after all. We can't be too smart.

MOE: Honestly, I feel kind of bad for the Sephardim. Israel is a really small country. Beyond that, Maureen Dowd is kind of incomprehensible to me most of the time. Does that make me dumb, or smarter since she's obvs a Gentile?

LOBBYIST: Dude, I have no idea. But, if we want to go back to the subject of people with more money than sense, how about this kid, who offered a guy a new pickup truck to kill his mom?

MOE: Oh, man, the picture of that kid....southern Maryland....we've already dicussed coal mining today! It's all too much. I'm marrying a Jew.

This morning, the Anonymous Lobbyist and I decided to have a very serious discussion about the serious news we'd read over the weekend and I decided to paste its contents here because I'm lazy and almost pathologically indecisive. Click the jump to watch us feebly discuss the upcoming US American election, that epic story about Evangelical Christians in the New York Times Magazine, Britney Spears and some sport that had some big game over the weekend.

GimmeMoe:: So, how was your weekend? I did ecstasy for the first time in my life and my inner cheeks feel like someone carpet-bombed them! Not that that makes any sense. So the Governator thinks weed isn't a drug." It is a leaf." And the song "gimme more" will not leave my head.
GimmeMoe:: Which brings me to my issue #1, which is the proliferation of Britney think pieces in the news lately.
hotellobbyist: hmm, so does that mean that psychedelic mushrooms are just another fungus? someone had better tell the Dutch government. oh, wait, they are...
hotellobbyist: well, britney does inspire some thought, especially if you're using illicit substances
GimmeMoe:: yeah "Gimme more" is actually pretty on-message with my attitude Saturday night!
GimmeMoe:: Your issue #1 is something about baseball, right?
8:55 AM
hotellobbyist: unfortunately, the club i went to on saturday lacked stripper poles, so no one knew what to do whne it came on
hotellobbyist: oh, yeah, in between drinks last night, i noticed the Sox won the series!
GimmeMoe:: oh, I'm sure I was ambling around in a daze falling on shit just like Britney would do
hotellobbyist: yeah, that seemed to be the theme where i was at
GimmeMoe:: So yeah, a guy I used to date was really into the Red Sox, and this one time Anna called him up — she's a Mets fan — and said "Bill Buckner" into the phone
hotellobbyist: my dad says i'm supposed to be excited about the baseball thingie, but I'm pretty sure i can't get it up enough to care if it happens more than once a century
GimmeMoe:: And he said "By the way, FUCK YOU," and hung up
hotellobbyist: oooh, that's a dirty word in my household!
GimmeMoe:: hahah Bill Buckner
GimmeMoe:: not fuck, i'm assuming
hotellobbyist: it's like watching a really bad little league game over and over again
GimmeMoe:: that's the extent of my knowledge about that sport really, except that, oh yes, they're really into drugs as well.
hotellobbyist: i mean, really, who doesn't love drugs?
hotellobbyist: my neighbor is giving me his extra vicodin for my birthday!
GimmeMoe:: Well, I think it's all about what you love MOST.
GimmeMoe:: "That is not a drug. It's a leaf," Schwarzenegger told GQ. "My drug was pumping iron, trust me."
hotellobbyist: oh, the man sure does know how to get re-elected in California
GimmeMoe:: For me most drugs bow down in servitude to the alcohol, which is really the wrong approach to take with ecstasy, it turns out.
GimmeMoe:: Anyway, MOVING ON. We have an election to talk about, and that story about the Evangelical crack-up.
hotellobbyist: right. so, like, the election is totes in a year! it's so close!
9:00 AM
hotellobbyist: i mean, what do people do in odd years when there's totes no campaign ads to watch? no series of long, boring and pointless debates to ignore?
GimmeMoe:: Are you on the tips email? Because we've been getting all these angry Hillary Clinton quotes, and I don't know where they're from, probably some new book from Regnery or whatever, but when I'm not hearing "Gimme Gimme" I'm hearing Hillary quotes such as: "What the f*ck do you think you're doing? I know who that whore is. I know what she's here for. Get her out of here." (To President-Elect Clinton as she spots him talking to one of his reputed girlfriends at a going-away celebration the day they left Little Rock for Washington, D.C. in January 1993 Inside the White House, p. 245). And "F*ck off! It's enough that I have to see you sh*t-kickers every day. I'm not going to talk to you, too. Just do your g*dd*mn job and keep your mouth shut." (Said to her Arkansas state trooper bodyguards, after one of them deigned to greet her with "good morning." American Evita, p. 90)
GimmeMoe:: I don't know where it came from, but the same dude sent another email about how Bill had told someone Hillary had eaten more pussy than he had so it's clearly credible.
GimmeMoe:: And I think I read it when I was high, so I keep hearing Hillary yell "fucking shitkickers" and... it could actually kinda work as a cheesy party anthem.
hotellobbyist: wait, i thought shit kickers were a type of shoes?
hotellobbyist: well, i thought BIll was more of a rim job man than a pussy eater?
hotellobbyist: no one would be surprised if his face smelled like shit, but pussy is harder to hide
GimmeMoe:: Oh yeah, I mean, that sounds like legalese if I ever heard it.
GimmeMoe:: I just looked back at the email. It's from Roger Morrow, a "Clinton expert." I think you should call him!
hotellobbyist: i mean, i strongly feel that someone in the White House should be performing cunnilingus. i'm just not sure i care who
GimmeMoe:: Austin, TX 512-306-1510
9:05 AM
hotellobbyist: has he eaten Hil's pussy? because that would be a story
GimmeMoe:: OMG SHE'S A BUTCH DYKE LESBIAN WHO IS INTO SADOMASOCHISM AND PROBS HAVING HER PUSSY EATEN BY DOGS AND YET HER PRESIDENCY IS *INEVITABLE*
hotellobbyist: ooh, speaking of people who are in bed with Hil, did you see the Merrill Lynch thing?
GimmeMoe:: She really has a way with aligning herself with the worst financial minds.
hotellobbyist: well, don't we all? if you ain't no punk, holla we want prenup.
GimmeMoe:: But no, I just read about that Merrill Lynch thing looking for the words "severance package" because I really get off on it when CEOs who leave huge companies in disgrace after announcing writeoffs of $8 billion which are the worst writeoffs in Wall Street history or something negotiate themselves, like, $100 million packages replete with mortgages for their great grandchildren, etc.
GimmeMoe:: But alas, he is still negotiating it.
9:10 AM
hotellobbyist: well, if he hadn't been a good negotiator, he wouldn't have managed to convince their dumb asses to give him a job in the first place. it's, you know, running the company that he sucks at. sorta like how we elect politicians because they're good at convincing us of various things, and then we expect them to govern and they sorta don't do that as well.
GimmeMoe:: Or, SEGUE ALERT, issue #3. Why people start following RELIGIONS.
GimmeMoe:: When they just take your money and make you feel bad about yourself once a week like some goddamn wannabe filmmaker high school boyfriend!
hotellobbyist: because it allows you to feel better than everyone else and wholly "inadequite" at the same time?
hotellobbyist: hmm, i preferred the boys in the band in high school, but, same diff
hotellobbyist: it's the conservative source of Smug in the world
GimmeMoe:: So did you read the big New York Times Magazine cover story about how evangelicals are totally "over" Bush? I went far enough to read "Once close to 90 percent, the president's approval rating among white evangelicals has fallen to a recent low below 45 percent, according to polls by the Pew Research Center. White evangelicals under 30 — the future of the church — were once Bush's biggest fans; now they are less supportive than their elders." and "The first time I voted was for Carter," Scarborough recalled. "The second time was for 'anybody but Carter,' because he had betrayed everything I hold dear. "Unfortunately," Scarborough concluded, "there is the same feeling in our community right now with George Bush. He appeared so right and so good. He talked a good game about family values around election time. But there has been a failure to follow through."
GimmeMoe:: But the fucking New York Times removed their "read this entire story on a single page like a normal person" option
hotellobbyist: well, Scarborough isn't wrong, really. it's just that he and i disagree whether that's a bad thing
hotellobbyist: what? omg, fuck those people!
hotellobbyist: that's why i read the NYT before the WaPo!
9:15 AM
GimmeMoe:: So after clicking through the first six pages without TED HAGGARD or LARRY CRAIG I was like, "mmmmm, salaciousness GIMME MORE PLEASE!"
GimmeMoe:: And gave up.
hotellobbyist: yeah, there's a definite lack of ass fucking in it
hotellobbyist: on the other hand, Huckabee does kind of all shit over the no-taxes ever wing of the Republican party (that hates him): "I think they are going to have a hard time going out into the pews and saying tax policy is what Jesus is about, that he said, 'Come unto me all you who are overtaxed and I will give you rest.' "
9:20 AM
GimmeMoe:: Haha, Lol. That said, I'm always annoyed by stories about how not all Christians are the same, some of them actually are not beyond rational reasoning, because like duh, that was the whole point of sectarian protestantism in the first place, was that you could go make the church exactly how you wanted it, which is why they ended up coming here in the first place, when really they should have just stuck to Catholicism so they could learn all the nice stories that children need so that they stop acting like little demons, only to gradually yet individually have their own lapse in faith starting at age 12 or 13 or whenever kids these days realize that if everyone who has sex before marriage went to Hell, Heaven would be the fucking LAMEST PLACE EVER.
hotellobbyist: well, heaven might well be the lamest place ever.
GimmeMoe:: I really appreciate the way the dogma of catholicism enabled me to have my very own personal individualized loss of faith.
hotellobbyist: but, the great thing about Catholicism is if you feel really, really badly about all the premarital sex, you still get to go to heaven!
hotellobbyist: it's the Protestants and their lack of instant forgiveness that are depopulating heaven
hotellobbyist: sorta like they're keeping down the birthrate here!
GimmeMoe:: Excactly! And then one day you do a few tabs of acid and wake up the next morning and it's Easter Sunday and you tap your boyfriend on the shoulder and ask him "Did we have sex?" And he nods sheepishly and you laugh and feel not an ounce of guilt!
hotellobbyist: or, you go out on a date with a guy on Easter Sunday and as he goes to kiss you in the car you notice his wedding ring in the ashtray and you don't feel guilty, just loathing and sorrow for his wife
GimmeMoe:: Hey, not to hop back to an earlier subject as if this is just some stream-of-consciousness thing we're doing here that does not belong on a highly professional blog like Jezebel, but one of my favorite things from the Britney Spears think pieces was this, from an A&R executive at Jive.
GimmeMoe:: Ms. LaBarbera Whites adds that during the 14 months it took to record the album in Los Angeles, New York and Atlanta, Ms. Spears's professionalism "never wavered." The label set up nurseries for her sons at the various recording studios. "She'd work, take a break and play with the babies," then get back to work, the executive says.
9:25 AM
hotellobbyist: wait, if "playing with the babies" a new euphemism for masturbation?
GimmeMoe:: LOL! That's the only way this would not actually a more absurd statement than, "Sex before marriage is a mortal sin."
hotellobbyist: because that's the only way that such a statement is believable
GimmeMoe:: So what's the deal with Huckabee? Do I have to know about him?
hotellobbyist: no one else does, so why should you?
hotellobbyist: he's the Richard Simmons of candidates
GimmeMoe:: Oh, because Colbert and Ron Paul are too serious?

Tracie: I've been a feminist for as long as I can remember, but I believe I recognized it for what it was when I was like in the fourth grade and one of the nuns asked for "a few strong boys" to leave math class and help carry carry boxes of pretzels to the school's kitchen. So those boys, who were shorter than I, got to leave a boring class and probably got to eat free pretzels. So. Un. Fair. So I'm pretty much a feminist for completely selfish reasons, because if I don't speak up and say something about such retarded inequalities that affect my life, who the fuck will?

Anyway, feminism has absolutely affected my sex life. I'm glad that I discovered BUST magazine at a young age, because its feminist pro-sex stance gave me the courage to buy my first vibrator, speak up in bed, and be unashamed about the fact that I have needs that must be satisfied. All of that has given me tons of practice in bed, and has led me to figure out what I like and what I don't like, and ultimately enabled me to enjoy my sex life so much more. And I know I'm always writing about sluttin' around and stuff, but actually I've had four (well, three and a half) stable, long-term relationships. I have to think that it's because I learned at an early age that I'm just as strong as any boy, and if I want something (be it free pretzels or a caring boyfriend), I'll make sure to plead my case and get it.


Moe: I have never identified as a feminist. All my life I've grown up around riot grrl type people and women's studies studiers, but somehow I just never identified strongly enough as a woman to be involved in any of it. I think this is probably because my dad never watched sports but forced us to listen to both classical music and Broadway musicals as a kid. And I was the oldest, so it wasn't until high school that I ran into real jock-type males, and by that point I was pretty sure I was going to achieve more in life than those guys. (Although, ha ha, I didn't. False confidence! So dudelike.)

Seriously though, I don't give a whole lot of thought to my gender or its role in my relationships and I'm pretty sure that's my problem. I do not think about how men expect women to look or act or talk or smell; I have never gotten a single body part waxed and I get my hair cut at Super Cuts and my underwear at — oh shit, my underwear collection — and as a result I think dudes I date tend to feel let down when we get close, because although I am a pretty unselfish and easygoing and really fun girlfriend, I own approximately one nice bra. Meanwhile my roommate, a woman's studies major who spent several years working at a feminist nonprofit, has fake nails, awesome clothes and a constant stream of guys dying to date her. I think that just by virtue of having thought about gender roles so much more, feminists are actually prettier and better put-together and more sexual than non-feminists and hence they get laid more often. Sucks for me!

Feminism And Romance Go Hand In Hand [ScienceDaily]

Bill Maher Can Suck My Tits [Huffington Post]
Earlier: Facebook: Boobs Are For Body-Shots, Not Baby-Feeding

[My sister and I] made Amazonian Barbie once. We took the clothes off of one of those with the really long hair, and we put her in my mom's giant ivy plant. Then we took the head off of another Barbie, and put her head on the other Barbie's hand. My dad thought it was so awesome that he took a picture.

Was this your first Barbie experiment?
I wouldn't say so, no. I've always been altering Barbies, even since I was little. Though none of those went this far - mostly just coloring hair with markers, building tiny Barbie parachutes and throwing them from the top of the playhouse, that sort of thing. I'd say the electric chair is the first notable one, though!

So you grew up playing with Barbie then?
Not in a good way, but since my relatives always bought them for me I found ways to make them fun, I guess. My sister and I normally just had them battle or it turned into a weird soap opera if we weren't cutting their hair and such.

So now that you're all grown up, what do you think about Barbie in general? What does she represent to you?
Honestly, I've hardly thought about them for years until I had to go hunt one down for the science fair. I think if there's any doll I hate, it's those Bratz dolls. They make Barbie look like a good role model. An anorexic fake role model, perhaps, but I suppose that's better than an alien hussy with a giant head. I think, honestly, that I should have made one with a Bratz doll. Maybe next time, if I don't make a Ken one.

How did you come up with the idea for the Barbie electric chair?
You know, I really am not sure. When I made the initial one in middle school, I made it with a friend. I think that we just wanted to put a Barbie in a weird situation. We both had Barbies lying around that we never played with, and it just seemed like a funny idea. We were just very weird kids, I guess.

How did your teachers react to it?
I don't think many of them liked it at all. I mostly just remember the female teachers being especially disgruntled about it. I pretty sure people were thinking we were completely deranged at that point even though we thought it was pretty harmless. I'm surprised they didn't try to put us into counseling! I can't even remember the grade we got on it, but it was pretty low.

So do you have anything else on Instructables?
Yep, I have two other projects on the site and I've been registered there for a while now. I did another instructable on how to lose weight, and one where I build bookshelves out of large print encyclopedias. I just like making things in general, so I think it's nice that I made my way to the site because they have such a great interface and it makes it so easy to explain your project to other people.

Your Barbie chair got linked on Boing Boing, which is one of the most popular sites on the internet, so I'm sure you're getting a lot of attention over this. Have you gotten any weird hate mail or anything? And more importantly, has Mattel contacted you?
No hate mail or anything. Slighty nasty comments on other sites, though, but it's nothing I didn't expect! I figured people would get worked up by it. And Mattel hasn't contacted me, thankfully. Can you imagine? I'd probably be quite worried if that happened.

Yeah, they're litigious jerks. So you're in college right now?
Yep, I'm going to University of Louisville. I'm a public health major, actually. Though I'm thinking more and more that I'd like to just build things for the rest of my life!

You should! You're good at it! Have you been overwhelmed by the attention the chair has gotten for you?
Thank you. Really overwhelmed. I put the project up, and I didn't think I had done as well as I should. I kept thinking people would say it was awful and no one would like it... and then out of nowhere, it was extremely popular and ending up all over the net. I just didn't see it happening like this. Now I feel like I need to update the chair and make it better.

What do you think of capital punishment?
It's not something that I can say I'm absolutely for or against. I just don't know if it's better to have someone live their life in jail, and have to face the consequences of what they did, or to kill them. What is really the worse punishment? I think it varies from case to case. And I think some people will always scream for the death of a killer. Eye for an eye, you know. The really cynical part of me tends to say that perhaps taking those people out of society through capital punishment might be the better option - why do you want to support someone that has committed such terrible acts with your tax dollars? So I'm not sure what my opinion is, I guess. I'm still working it out in my own head. But I'm happy we're phasing the electric chair out. Lethal injection is a much better method, and one that's less likely to fail.

Earlier: Weekend Homework Assignment: Kill Barbie
Related: How To Make A Barbie [BoingBoing]
Barbie Doll Electric Chair Science Fair Project [Instructables]

Vibe Magazine: It's Obama Time! [JustJared]

• (On which fragrance she wears) "Angel mixed with Poison. I always mix them up. It's a good combination, isn't it?"
  
• "One of the things my editors said to me when I was writing the book was, 'I don't think [a certain character] should sleep with the gardener.' I said, 'Are you kidding me?'"
  
• (Apropos of nothing) "Have you ever been to Cannes?"

• "My God, the food here is incredible."
• "I collect sapphires and rubies. I like to get my jewelry myself."
• "I am not a Hollywood wife—I only write about them."

When (well, if) America chooses a woman president next November, few traditionally male experiences will be unfamiliar to the fairer sex. We fight wars. We ejaculate. We even, on occasion, send emails regarding our emotional unavailability after a night of passion that involved a little too much cuddling. But no girl we have ever known pisses in the shower. Welcome to our very first installment of 'Inside the Minds Of Men,' wherein we send our youngest and, uh, fairest Jezebel editor, Jen, who doesn't so much as brush her teeth in the shower, to investigate the few remaining mysteries of manhood. She'll go to strip clubs and listen to Stern and hang out at the New York Stock Exchange and do all sorts of other crap that dudes do to retain their senses of whatever the fuck "manhood" is these days.

• Type I: The Pigs ("I do it all the time")
  
• Type II: The Liars ("I've done it, but, like, it's not something I do")
  
• Type III: The Publicity Whores ("Only at the gym, baby")

TYPE I: Scott, 29
Scott: Any guy who tells you he doesn't pee in the shower is lying to you. It's like masturbating. We all do it.

TYPE I: Eric, 26; with a cameo by Eric's Girlfriend, 23
Eric: nothing that happens to you in the shower can make you dirty. And any guy who tells you he doesn't pee in the shower is a liar. Who would get out of the shower to pee?!
JG: Is it a laziness thing? Why not get out of the shower to pee?
Eric: You'd drip water all over the bathroom. And there's NO WAY I'm holding it.
Eric's girlfriend: This is something i did not need to know.
JG: Is there technique involved?
Eric: Pee into the drain. Also, if you have a boner, it's easier to pee in the shower than in the toilet.
Eric's Girlfriend: This was more information that I did not need to know
JG: Is there anything special that needs to be done to ensure that you hit the drain? Do you rinse thoroughly afterward?
Eric: It's exactly like peeing in the toilet. And no, there is no rinsing. You're taking a fucking shower! Of course you're rinsing the tub out! There's water running constantly, with soap!!
Eric's Girlfriend: Apparently, Eric's mother once asked, while scuba diving, if it was okay to pee in the ocean, to which he replied, "Are you kidding me? I've peed like 3 times already."

TYPE I: Matt, 27
Matt: Did you seriously ask me if I pee in the shower? Yeah, of course I do. Everyone does. I don't understand why it's that interesting.
JG: I don't pee in the shower.
Matt: Ok, well...i t's supposed to prevent athlete's foot?
JG: No that's not true. Madonna made that up.

TYPE 1: Bruce, 35
Bruce: Haha — of course I do it! It's not a big deal because you can aim it right at the drain and away it goes, unless you have a clogged drain in which case it's gross.
JG: But why do it? Laziness? Boredom? Because you can?
Bruce: Laziness? Sure. Boredom? Sometimes. Because we can? Always. There's this strange pleasure from watching it fly (ahem) and the novelty of doing it the traditional way wears off long before our adolescent years. It's not quite as fun — or as big an achievement — as writing your name in the snow. But it's environmentally conscious, as you save the water from a flush.

TYPE I: Michael, 15 (reformed)
Michael: Oh yeah, I always used to pee in the shower. Always. But then my drain got clogged this once and it wasn't draining right... and once there was the back-up problem I stopped. And if it weren't for my broken drain, I'd be pissing in each shower I took.

TYPE I: Dan, 25
Dan: One of the most liberating things a man can do is pee in nature, the only thing that can come close is peeing in the shower. If a guy tells you he doesn't pee in the shower, then you are clearly being lied to and nothing he says should be trusted from that point on. Why do we do it, you ask? A better question might be— why wouldn't we do it? Why shouldn't we? The fact is, you're naked in an environment that is wholly private and relaxing, surrounded by not only the sound, but the feel of moving water. If that doesn't trigger something primal in you, I don't know what will. And so you don't feel bad letting loose (often hands-free) and aiming for the drain. And if there's any kickback, well, you're in the shower... worse things have happened.

Type II: Josh, 26
JG: Do you have any deep thoughts/shameless confessions on the topic of peeing in the shower? Namely, do you do it? Regularly? Why? Is there technique? And how fucking lazy do you have to be to not just go in the toilet?
Josh: I do it.
JG: Always? Sometimes?
Josh: Always? Yeah I only pee in the shower!
JG: This is serious, investigative journalism, thank you! Stop mocking!
Josh: Yup, if there's no shower, I can't pee. Okay no really, sometimes if I have to pee all of a sudden, I'll do it. But not really, otherwise.
JG: Um, I also have a urinary tract and I can't imagine it's that different than that of a male. And I have never just peed in the shower because of a sudden urge.
Josh: Yeah because for you it dribbles. I used to pee into the toilet from the shower, but I had to slump forward into my lumbar spine.
JG: Do you feel the need to clean the tub afterwards? Have you ever Lysol-ed the shower for a chick?
Josh: The most I ever touch the tub is with the soles of my feet. And re: cleaning for a chick, naw. Fuck dat noize.

TYPE II: Mike, 27
JG: Do you pee in the shower?
Mike: No. I don't. But I can pretend if you want.
JG: Sigh
Mike: I mean I have. I just don't regularly
JG: Well, what is the motivation behind peeing in the shower?
Mike: Mostly sheer laziness... like if it comes by surprise and you just don't want to get out.
JG: Is there technique involved?
Mike: Generally you try to avoid your lower extremities... sometimes the streams get crossed you don't know where its going though. It's kind of like Ghostbusters. Sometimes you have to do a little two-step to get out of the strike zone
JG: Right but how fucking lazy do you have to be to not do it in the toilet? Girls are lazy. But we don't pee in the shower.
Mike: Let's remember some guys don't even shower regularly... we are talking about another level of laziness. Also you have to figure in drunk showering. I bet peeing rates skyrocket while drinking.
JG: Okay, now we're talking. But who showers drunk?

TYPE II: Ryan, 25
Ryan: No, I don't really pee in the shower. Only when I'm hungover. But really, not even that often then. I went through a phase once, though, of doing it, and then stopped.
JG: When? What happened?
Ryan: I was in 2nd grade. It was the late 80's and I lived in Southern California and we were having a drought and they came to our school to talk about how important it was to conserve water. So I decided in my head I could conserve water if I didn't flush the toilet, and did all my peeing in the shower. I thought it was a great conservation idea. But then I stopped.
JG: Why did you stop?
Ryan: I was in the 2nd grade! I forgot that I had told myself I would do it. It probably lasted a week, tops.

Type III: Jonathan, 19
JG; Jonathan, do you have 10 minutes? Can I ask you a question?
Jonathan: Dude, I'm at Bonnaroo!
JG: Okay, but do you pee in the shower?
Jonathan: Whoah — what did you just ask me? Can I answer this when I'm home from Bonnaroo? I seriously can't believe you just asked me that.
the next day...
Jonathan: I only pee in the shower at the gym. It'd be nasty to pee in my own shower. That's gross.
JG: But you do it at the gym?
Jonathan: Oh, yeah. It's like that episode of Seinfeld. I'm George.
JG: Well, what's the difference?
Jonathan: At the gym, it's not my shower.

TYPE III: Alex, 25:
JG: So what's the deal with guys peeing in the shower? Do you pee in the shower?
Alex: Only at the gym. Only at the gym.