child birth - Jezebel

posts about #childbirth more →
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lucylooo
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
And, now that I've read through the rest of the comments on the post, I'm glad I commented without reading them at first, because, honestly, it never occurred to me that it was any of my business to question this couple's fertility/parenting choices based on what little I could possibly know about them from this article. And, as so many other people have said, just across my immediate family - my parents and brothers and I - we have so many mental/physical disorders that doubtless presenting a list to this crowd any/every one of us would be questioned on the "wiseness" of our collective decisions to procreate. And yet, there are nine beautiful, (relatively, but not entirely) healthy children in that next generation (none of them mine, because not having children is my choice) that our small world would have been much worse off if they had never been born.

Judging other people is easy, but I always see those judgments as a much more telling insight of the person doing the judging. #childbirth
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Little Time Bomb
11/09/09

@lucylooo: I really want to hug you right now. #childbirth
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lucylooo
11/10/09

@Little Time Bomb: Please don't hold back! I never turn down a hug, even a virtual one. :) #childbirth
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Cattitude
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
I just want to add that Osteogenesis Imperfecta is an autosomal dominant genetic defect - this means there is a 50% chance of passing the condition to a child. OI is most often inherited from a parent, but can also be the result of a "de novo" (sporadic) mutation - as in my own case. Neither of my parents have OI. So for those of you so worried about the selfishness of the parent potentially passing on a condition to a child, keep in mind that children are born all the time with conditions that their parents don't have (and vice versa)! #childbirth
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AnotherJenn
11/09/09

@Cattitude: I think it's always good to remember that even those who have so-called perfect genes (or think they do) are still at risk of having a child with a genetic abnormality.

Also, some people may think it's selfish for someone with special challenges to have children, but many more think it's wonderful. I very deeply value being raised in a family with a disabled parent. I learned a lot about empathy, among many other things. And while I sometimes wished my dad could play catch with me, I was always glad to know that he wanted to. He is a wonderful father and I'm lucky to have him. #childbirth
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Cattitude
11/09/09

@AnotherJenn: You raise another excellent point about diversity and what challenges can teach us. While being disabled/differently-abled can be painful and exhausting, it can also be challenging, uplifting, and educational on so many levels, for ourselves as well as our families. My own disability has taught me many life lessons and made me a stronger person, and I don't regret that at all. #childbirth
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AnotherJenn
11/09/09

@Cattitude: Good for you. I have to admit at being incredibly annoyed when anyone else tries to use the "you/your dad is so strong because of it all" line on me because I feel like we're strong enough, dammit, and I'd like him to not continually get worse and worse (the last 10 years have been extremely difficult for him). That line can be used in a silencing or minimizing way sometimes. At the same time, it's true.

I hope this makes sense? It's like, there are two narratives about disability. One is that you should just give up trying to have any kind of normal life and just accept whatever tiny bits of integration may come your way. The other is that you're an inspiration, a hero, an incredible person, just for going about trying to have a normal life. You can't express fear or pain because then you don't fit in the hero box. It's hard to deal with so people pretend like you have a supernatural ability to deal with difficulties. Both can be silencing.

But, yeah, I hate this idea that being disabled or having a disabled parent is some huge tragedy or is unfair to the children. Sure, parts of it suck, but parts of everyone's life suck. There are a lot of wonderful things about it too. #childbirth
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Her Grace
11/09/09

@AnotherJenn: I'm glad to hear your thoughts on this topic; it's reassuring for when my girlfriend and I finally decide to have kids (10-12 years from now, most likely).

I know exactly what you mean about the inspiration/tragedy dichotomy, and you put it very well. Neither of us (she has CP, I have Asperger's syndrome) are anything but normal people. We just want to get on with our lives, not be told what incredible people we are for doing "so well" (because doing average is always "so well" when you aren't quite average, yourself, of course). #childbirth
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AnotherJenn
11/09/09

@Her Grace: Oh good, I'm glad someone else understands. And I'm glad my thoughts about my childhood were reassuring to you. :)

I went through a very rough patch in high school where I was very angry that my dad was sick all the time (he was fairly healthy when I was young except for the wheelchair, but he started having some major problems when I was about 16). But I never blamed my parents for that. I had a few friends whose young, healthy parents had strokes, heart attacks, accidents, etc. Life gives you no guarantees that you'll always be the ideal of physical health. Anyway, I came out of that realizing that I'm one of the lucky kids because I had two loving, knowledgeable, competent, wonderful parents. Lots of people aren't anywhere near as lucky as me. :) #childbirth
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Her Grace
11/10/09

@AnotherJenn: You and your family sound awesome. #childbirth
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whynotshesaid
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
Two things:

OMG, look how happy they both are!

And I've seen pregnant women who are all belly, but she is literally ALL belly.

Sorry, I can't snark or judge. They just look too happy. #childbirth
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thesciencegirl
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
It seems that the general trend of comments here is to question or judge the rightness or morality of this woman's decision to reproduce, and to call her selfish for doing so. I also see a lot of concern (faux concern?) over the possibility of this woman passing on her genetic disorder. I am always a bit uncomfortable with that line of thinking, as I don't think we have a moral imperative to avoid passing on genetic traits considered "undesireable." We all pass on genes, good and bad, when we choose to have children, and you do have to question where we draw the line at things that "should" or shouldn't be passed on. There is a lot of push-back from disability advocates on the notion that the able-bodied have a say in judging the quality of life of those who are differently-abled. Even in this woman's case, while she does suffer physical consequences of her disorder, she also has a full family life, and appears to be quite content. So, is it selfish of her to risk passing on her genetic mutation to her children, or to initiate high-risk pregnancies? I have heard similar arguments about women who want to have children at later ages, women who have multiples, women who use fertility drugs or in vitro, and same-sex couples who want to have children. What about the children?! starts to sound a bit disengenuous after a while. #childbirth
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Her Grace
11/09/09

@thesciencegirl: This. #childbirth
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Sev
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
See the picture above? That right there is what I talk about when I talk about supporting a woman's right to choose. This is what gets lost when we allow the anti-choice movement to frame the debate.

She chose to proceed with her high-risk pregnancy because it's what she WANTED. It was her choice. No one forced her to carry that baby. If she chose to terminate, that would have been her decision as well.

Regardless, she made a CHOICE. She's entitled to that. We should all be allowed the same. #childbirth
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AwkwardTurtle
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
I'm going to watch the shit out of this inevitable special on TLC. #childbirth
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lafleur
11/09/09

@AwkwardTurtle: I'll bring the snacks, dude. #childbirth
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Sophie needs to study...damn
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
Wow, this woman and her family are very fortunate and I wish them well. And to the haters "concerned" about her health and her children's welfare, save it. She's doing everything society says is good: married, having kids. And those who offer up adoption, adoption is not like going to the ASPCA and picking out a pooch. Adoption involves a lot of bureacrats passing judgment which includes assuming she's an unfit mother for being born with a genetic anomaly. She wants kids. She gets pregnant. The end. #childbirth
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TheExperience
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
Aside from everything else going on with this story, it's really amazing that even with body defects like this, we're still wired to reproduce. That picture is incredible - life just soldiers on, whether we think it's a good idea or not. #childbirth
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whynotshesaid
11/09/09

@TheExperience: I just finished Bill Bryson's science book - great fucking read, by the way, I like quintupled my already-reasonable amount of scientific understanding - and he makes the point that all beings are really just ways to help our DNA continue to replicate. I felt a tiny bit despondent at the idea, but then I got over it and thought how amazingly dogged DNA must be to be capable of orchestrating its reproduction in so many different ways. #childbirth
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Valkyrie607
11/09/09

@whynotshesaid: It really is amazing when you stop to think about it. Like we're all just colorful book covers for this infinite story that keeps telling itself, to itself, forever. #childbirth
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whynotshesaid
11/09/09

@Valkyrie607: I love that metaphor! Hearted! #childbirth
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Peebers says what?
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
Generally I’m always pro-adoption in any situation and especially if someone has a potentially hazardous genetic trait. But comments from likeminded Jezzies leads me to wonder if she would have been found "acceptable" for adoption in her condition. What little I know about the adoption process is that it is very difficult to be approved by an agency; finances, relationship status and mental/physical health of the hopeful parent can rule them out as an acceptable candidate. Being that she is so small I would assume that an adoption agency would claim that she is not physically capable of rearing a child.
Then again, I don’t know if they tried that rout or even wanted it. #childbirth
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deeemer
11/09/09

@Peebers says what?: You know, I'm uncomfortable with the notion that only genetically superior people are allowed to reproduce. #childbirth
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FrannyR
11/09/09

@deeemer: "genetically superior"...? Where did that come from? #childbirth
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deeemer
11/09/09

@FrannyR: " I’m always pro-adoption in any situation and especially if someone has a potentially hazardous genetic trait" #childbirth
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lollapulizer
11/09/09

@deeemer: I think by "potentially hazardous genetic trait" she meant that, like Stacey Herald, some women inherited a genetic trait that makes pregnancy a risk to their lives. #childbirth
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FrannyR
11/09/09

@deeemer: How is that "superior"? #childbirth
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deeemer
11/09/09

@lollapulizer: Thank you for clarifying. #childbirth
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whynotshesaid
11/09/09

@Peebers says what?: I doubt she would have been able to adopt. Hell, I've found out that my husband is considered unfit to adopt, even though he is healthy, educated and employed. Why? He's too old. So I seriously doubt any American agency at least would adopt out to her. #childbirth
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Peebers says what?
11/09/09

@deeemer: Sorry if I wasn’t clear before. In the article it mentions that the woman is small due to "Osteogenesis Imperfecta, which causes brittle bones and underdeveloped lungs, and means she failed to grow". I assume that it is a genetic condition with many health risks/complications and if I were in her place I personally wouldn’t want to risk pregnancy or passing that on to my kids. I didn’t mean in any way to sound like I was preaching eugenics. #childbirth
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deeemer
11/09/09

@Peebers says what?: No, sorry I wasn't clear on what you were saying. A risk to the mother I could totally understand as being an issue. Thanks again for taking the time to explain. #childbirth
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buymecandy
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
so she's risking her life and passing on her genetic issues? What in the world is wrong with adoption? #childbirth
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Armed with Vitriol
11/09/09

@buymecandy: I agree. I think it's a selfish decision on this couple's part. #childbirth
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lizdexia
11/09/09

@buymecandy: If I had to guess, I'd say the problem with adoption is that an agency isn't going to be super enthusiastic to give a baby to someone with a severe genetic condition. I'm not enthusiastic about this choice, but I don't think adoption was an especially viable option for them either. #childbirth
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la.donna.pietra
11/09/09

@buymecandy: It's expensive, frequently very difficult, and there's probably no way in hell she'd be allowed to adopt a kid? #childbirth
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TheExperience
11/09/09

@buymecandy: I'm a big supporter of adoption, so I do agree with the idea that it needs to be considered in a situation like this. But a lot of people want biological children so badly they are driven to do things like this, and I'd really have to think hard about what kind of argument I'd use to counter someone's wanting to have a baby of their own. #childbirth
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Ms.RantyPants
11/09/09

@buymecandy: I'm not sure what's wrong with adoption - maybe they don't qualify? It can be terribly difficult to qualify as adoptive parents, especially if you have a disability. This was probably the only way that they could have a family, biological or otherwise. Although I do wish that they considered surrogtacy, but these are expensive.

Also, it's not clear whether the babies 'definitely' inherited the mother's genetic issues. If i remember my genetics right, there is a chance that the child doesn't even have the gene at all (i.e. not a carrier).

Ultimately, it's her body, her choice. #childbirth
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lizdexia
11/09/09

@la.donna.pietra: And then there's the issue that people with disabilities, genetic conditions or fertility issues have no greater moral or social obligation to adopt than anyone else.
People throw out the suggest to "just adopt" like it's going to the shelter to pick out a puppy. It doesn't work that way folks. #childbirth
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lodown
11/09/09

@buymecandy: It's her choice to risk her life and I'm guessing she feels like she can do it again if she did it successfully before.

I'm also beyond sickened by the suggestion that only genetically perfect people should be allowed to have children. What if your family has a history of autism or cancer? Should we allow you to reproduce and risk passing on your imperfect genes? #childbirth
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velma
11/09/09

@buymecandy: everyone who has children passes on their genetic issues. My family has a history of cancer, stroke, heart failure, cirrhosis, hyperthyroidism and more but not one single person questioned my right to have children #childbirth
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Cattitude
11/09/09

@buymecandy: I have the same condition as this woman (Osteogenesis Imperfecta) but you wouldn't know it by looking at me. I resent being told that I shouldn't have kids if I want them simply because there's a risk of passing on my genetic condition. Anything could go wrong with anyone's child - Down's Syndrome and MS are genetic conditions that could affect anyone - and yet I could possibly bear a child that doesn't have OI. This is my choice, and I don't think any commenter here is in any position to tell me I shouldn't have that choice. #childbirth
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MediumMac
11/09/09

@velma: You've said exactly what I wanted to.

My family is chock-a-block full of mental issues and cancer. I myself have two autoimmune diseases, which I inherited from Ma/Grandma. But because we "present" normally, no one has said a word about US having kids.

It's a little late to try and chlorinate the gene pool, folks. EVERYONE has some sort of issue if you look back far enough. #childbirth
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Little Time Bomb
11/09/09

@buymecandy: There is nothing wrong with adoption, for people who wish to adopt. She and her family obviously did not want to adopt. As far as her "genetic issues" she clearly feel that her life and her possibly affected offspring's lives is/will be rewarding and happy. She's probably in a better position to judge that than you, unless you of course also happen to be affected by her condition, and have intimate daily knowledge of her family's life. #childbirth
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Little Time Bomb
11/09/09

@Cattitude: Amen and much love! #childbirth
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Cattitude
11/10/09

@Little Time Bomb: Back atcha! #childbirth
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PaintedTrollop
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
Trainee priests must have great health insurance plans. #childbirth
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Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
I love that pic so much! But it does make me a bit worried for her hubby. I saw a show about them and he pretty much does everything, including taking care of her and I also think he works (but I could be wrong on that point). It's not to say that women haven't played the role of over-burdened caretaker for hundreds of years, but damn...that seems like hard business. Plus, it's a peculiar inclination to push their luck when they've already been twice-blessed. #childbirth
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closetalker11
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
Check out the caption: she has to rely on her husband Will to do most things around the house. THE HORROR. #childbirth
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Sophie needs to study...damn
11/09/09

@closetalker11: Ha!
But for reals, her husband sounds great. If there are any other former super market employees who are priests in training, call me! #childbirth
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crazy_lady
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
I don't know how I feel about this. It's her third child.

The caption says she can't hold her daughter, and relies on her husband to do most things around the house.

Is it resilience or stupidity to keep pushing your luck? #childbirth
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pantsless economist...access RESTORED
11/09/09

@crazy_lady: Well, it's her decision. Some people really want to have kids and they'll risk anything for it--there are plenty of people who risk their health and life fortunes to have kids via in vitro or whatever other means. There are plenty of mothers who are disabled or incapacitated and it doesn't make them any worse or better at parenting.

I'm more into cats and dogs than babies, but different strokes. I do think it's important to attempt to empathize. #childbirth
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crazy_lady
11/09/09

@pantsless economist...access RESTORED: Um, I never said it wasn't her decision.

I think that's a conversation stopper, "it's her choice".

There's nothing wrong with her having that choice, but I still think we should question why she feels the need to make such a choice.

Anyways, I'm always wary of women risking their health for a baby. Whether it's because of disability, or in vitro or whatever else. I can empathize with someone wanting something very badly, but I simply cannot understand how a baby trumps health.

It's fine that it does for some women - I'm just curious as to how a decision like that is made. #childbirth
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dj_chick
11/09/09

@pantsless economist...access RESTORED: The part of the story where she said that she was upset when doctor's told her that she couldn't have kids because it meant she couldn't have a complete family bothered me a little. There's always adoption. And not having the ability to carry a child doesn't mean that you won't (or don't) have a complete family. :( #childbirth
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BlondeGoddess
11/09/09

In reply to Small Miracles
I'm probably too practical, but why risk your life a third time when you already have two lovely babies? Isn't it a bit selfish - your children may end up motherless. #childbirth
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spamanda
11/09/09

@BlondeGoddess: That was my thought exactly. I've never understood the whole "god will look out for me" bit though. #childbirth
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token_illiterate_commenter
11/09/09

@BlondeGoddess: I don't know if selfish is the right word, but it doesn't seem like the sane choice. I have to wonder what is driving her to do this. #childbirth
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anchovypaste
11/09/09

@BlondeGoddess: Life is *full* of risks, for parents, and children and everybody in between. My children could end up motherless if I die in a car accident, or develop a fatal disease, or have a totally unexpected heart attack. Should parents (or in this case a mother) have to forfeit the right to take any risks just in case? #childbirth
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BlondeGoddess
11/09/09

@anchovypaste: But this is something completely different! Of course everyone can get sick or walk under a bus. You never know. But these kind of pregnancies put yourself at risk and your children. #childbirth
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anchovypaste
11/10/09

@BlondeGoddess: of course. But every subsequent pregnancy that a woman has puts her existing children at risk; I lost a friend to HELLP syndrome, which *no-one* could have predicted, and she left behind 3 children. No-one would ever have told her that she was being selfish by having 3 children instead of one because everything looked fine, kwim? #childbirth
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BlondeGoddess
11/10/09

@anchovypaste: That's awful, I'm very sorry to hear that.
Selfish was not the right word to choose (let's blame it on me not being a native speaker), but still, this woman knew she was putting herself and the baby in danger, so it does feel irresponsible, for me, an outsider.
But this remains a very happy picture, and I hope they will make one big happy family. #childbirth
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