As much as I dislike that my mother made me go to church as a kid, I'm infinitely glad it wasn't this sort of church. The fact that this message is never marketed to boys really bothers me. And, you know, even as a 12-year-old atheist I dress perfectly age-appropriately and relatively modestly. Always have, always will. It doesn't have to have anything to do with jesus. Just taste. #secretkeepergirls
If this group can get rid of the "onesie" I saw recently printed with the word "Hottie", I'll be so happy. The purity/virginity stuff is creepy, but I do like the idea of letting girls grow up more slowly. #secretkeepergirls
@hollygirl: How about the shorts with messages written on the butts? My 6'8" friend had to physically restrain me from confronting a father in a parking lot with TWO little girls. I clearly remember one of them had "jailbait"; I forget what the other said, but it was just so out of line. GRR!! #secretkeepergirls
@Jennifer Daniels: Same idea. These retailers - do they not get that they're promoting sexualization of KIDS? I tried explaining it at the store where I saw "Hottie" infantwear, they just stared at me like I was a scary "activist". #secretkeepergirls
My issue is completely with the whole concept of introducing "purity" into the abstinence debate. I am no longer a virgin, but I have recently chosen to become abstinent for religious reasons (I am in the process of converting). I don't regret the sexual experiences I have had, but I also don't regret giving up The Sex. For me, this was a decision and a commitment I made to myself and to God (note: not to my future "knight on a white horse" of a husband or on my "fortress of virture defending" father. Ah! Those purity balls freak me out.)
When young girls are encouraged to see themselves as defined by their purity, its the same thing as encouraging them to see themselves as defined by their bodies. I agree with so much of the message that this book sends out, but by treating sexual "purity" as a character definition and litmus test for self worth, we teach girls that responsibility, truthfulness, love and kindness, and the way they treat others are not the most important part of their selves--its the clothes the wear and the sexual behavior they engage in. And isn't that just as bad as "Slutoween"? #secretkeepergirls
@ellesbelles: "When young girls are encouraged to see themselves as defined by their purity, its the same thing as encouraging them to see themselves as defined by their bodies."
In fact, it IS encouraging them to see themselves as defined by their bodies. #secretkeepergirls
I went to a purity retreat at my church where we read "And the Bride Wore White." It's really not that bad. It has some great things to say and encouraging messages for young girls. It's not all about abstinence, but that is a strong factor. That said, I really don't think it's cool that some people judge a book because it's religious. I'm a Christian. I love Jesus. I also find some Christian books offensive (like the ones telling me how I am less-than, and how I can be a better woman/wife. eff that.). I have a hard time condemning books like this because at least it opens up discussion about sex and sexuality and attempts to foster open communication between mothers and daughters. It may not be perfect, but its ties to religion do not hinder it from being a helpful book in a vastly underrepresented sector of young women's lives. #secretkeepergirls
@madeofawesome: I'm not trying to be rude, but how exactly does a book like this "open up discussion about sex and sexuality". As far as I can tell it tells young girls that to be pure you must be a virgin. Placing an emphasis on chastity is not "opening up" sexual discussion. #secretkeepergirls
@Armed with Vitriol: It actually does not say that to be pure you must be a virgin. In fact, the author is not a virgin. She examines purity as more of a complex subject than "don't have sex ever or you will get pregnant and God will hate you." A lot of people say that shit and it's not even remotely true. This book is more of a memoir of what happened to her and what was best for her. Everything in a prescriptive book should be taken with a grain of salt anyway.
At the retreat we talked about sex, what to do in a sexual situation if you are uncomfortable, how much depends on what you are personally comfortable with, how you are not a bad person if you have sex, how the mentors handled sex before/after marriage and whether they regretted their decisions, etc.
Sometimes I really can't stand "Christians" because the assholes ruin it for the rest of us and we have to spend a lot of time explaining that we're not crazy. #secretkeepergirls
@madeofawesome: That actually sounds pretty progressive, and wish there was a secular version for some girls (maybe in Girl Scouts?). #secretkeepergirls
@madeofawesome: When you mentioned "purity retreat" I kind of just assumed that is exactly what it was. From the title of it, it does sound as if it would center around remaining chaste or "pure". #secretkeepergirls
The book she wrote called Lies Young Women Believe include 'lies' like you need to have a job outside the home even if your husband makes a good income and you don't need to have children and that feminism is a good thing. I know someone with the book and it made my blood pressure rise to peruse it.
Don't they realize that the obsession with girls covering up (intoxicating bellies, future cleveage) sexualizes girls just as much as revealing clothing does? #secretkeepergirls
this makes me really really really want to start a 'truth keeper' franchise/empire wherein i write a book for girls that includes the very down to earth awesome sex and relationship advice my mom handed down to me. it would include momma gems like:
- don't ever ever ever marry as a virgin. you will be scared and disappointed.
- your virginity should be lost to someone who you really like and who is worth it but it should not be built up as an end all be all, soul mates uniting, heaven's clouds parting act.
- instead, the first time you have sex will be awkward and at least a little painful but i promise it gets better the more you practice.
- don't ever let someone near you without a condom on. don't ever have sex with someone without a condom who you don't want to mate with.
- if anything bad happens, i will go to whatever clinic we need to with you and we don't have to tell dad and you will not be in any kind of trouble.
@awinoforever: Wow. You really should write a book or something. That's some amazing advice and I'd be hard pressed to find a girl who wouldn't benefit from hearing it. Right on Awinoforever's Mom! #secretkeepergirls
@awinoforever: I'm with you on most of it, except for assuming your first time will sort of suck. If you do it shame-free with someone you like, mentally and physically, it may be freaking awesome. TMI but just thinking about how good it was gets me all sorts of excited. #secretkeepergirls
"Why isn't there a happy medium?" Teach your daughter to respect her body, take her to museums and brunch on Sundays instead of church and there you go. Just because Christians come up with a good idea does not mean they've somehow co-opted it and no one else can play. #secretkeepergirls
@sheistolerable: I think plenty of people do that in their personal lives, but the question is, why isn't there a national movement or organization that espouses this?
@rofling_medusa: Also: "Bellies are very intoxicating and we need to save that for our husband!"
I am just...in awe. Really? Let's promote ownership of a girl/woman's body by their husband/male relatives. That's worked out so well in the past! #secretkeepergirls
@kaytann: I'm more creeped out by the "Grandather's mirror" advice, whih tells girls to sit in front of a mirror, and the pretend the mirror is their grandfather and ask themselves is they are showing undies or too much thigh. Umm, wtf?Why pretend the mirror is your grandfather? Shouldn't your grandfather be the last person looking at/caring about your prepubescent underwear and thighs? #secretkeepergirls
To me the abstinence movement is ultimately creepy because in practice, it's a ways of shaming girls. One example - as a teenager I remember being at a church youth group event that involved passing a rose around the room. The rose symbolized "the girl," who got handed from guy to guy, getting more and more damaged with each one. It was really disturbing to me then, and it still is.
You know what's really damaging? The message that you're worthless if you're not "intact". No mention of what happens if you're abused - you're just not as valuable regardless of the circumstances. I understand that many Christians wouldn't outright blame an abuse victim, but it makes me upset that compassion is almost never part of the purity message. Also that it's always the girls' responsibility to stay pure.
I feel this would be much more effective in Goofus & Gallant form. Perhaps called "Doofus and Damsel," keeping with the virginity focus? #secretkeepergirls
This would be such an awesome, awesome thing if it weren't quietly advocating abstinence because God said so. I would love to tell my daughter she's a perfect creation that God made - because that's what kids are. Little girls are perfect just the way they are. But having sex in their teens won't automatically ruin that.
On the other hand, anything that stops the onslaught of slutty stuff for ten-year-olds deserves major applause.
Can we start a secular version of this, one that's pro-good-body-image but anti-purity-for-Jesus? #secretkeepergirls
@Ultraprison!: This is mostly my issue. I love the idea that everyone is wonderful the way they are. I mean, that's a positive thing, right? But it saddens me that it's immediately taken to the crazy extreme, i.e. that you're only perfect until you have sex. Then you're ruined forever. #secretkeepergirls
@rofling_medusa: This is my biggest problem with it. Maybe a guys' version does exist, and if so great. But I have a much bigger problem with only girls need to be pure and avoid sex than I do with God being involved. Some of the best information on sex I got was at a Catholic Sunday school. Our instructors told us that according to the churh we needed to wait until marriage - girls AND boys - but that if we found ourselves ready to have sex we should know how to be smart about it (ditto on drugs, drinking, etc.). It was there that I picked up information like if you're too embarassed to go into a store and buy condoms, you're not ready to have sex. Throughout the presenation God was encorporated and we were encouraged to wait for marriage, but they were very realistic about the idea that many people might have sex before marriage. I filed away most of that information and have passed it on to younger siblings and their close friends as I was asked questions. #secretkeepergirls
Ha. I write for a website that reviews YA books ([www.foreveryoungadult.com] - shameless plug), and I can already tell that I'm going to review these.
But can I just say? Jesus would make a crappy BFF. All your life, all you'd hear from your parents is, "why can't you be more like that nice young boy, Jesus? He NEVER sasses his parents!" or "why don't you go out with that nice young boy, Jesus? What's so great about that Saul boy?" #secretkeepergirls
Women have always been forced to choose between chaste, cherubic Susy Homemaker or sex crazed banshee. The issue I have with this organization, (and Christianity in general), is the practice of basing a sexually mature girl's worth and ''Godly entitlement'' on virginity. #secretkeepergirls
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When young girls are encouraged to see themselves as defined by their purity, its the same thing as encouraging them to see themselves as defined by their bodies. I agree with so much of the message that this book sends out, but by treating sexual "purity" as a character definition and litmus test for self worth, we teach girls that responsibility, truthfulness, love and kindness, and the way they treat others are not the most important part of their selves--its the clothes the wear and the sexual behavior they engage in. And isn't that just as bad as "Slutoween"? #secretkeepergirls
10/30/09
In fact, it IS encouraging them to see themselves as defined by their bodies. #secretkeepergirls
10/30/09
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At the retreat we talked about sex, what to do in a sexual situation if you are uncomfortable, how much depends on what you are personally comfortable with, how you are not a bad person if you have sex, how the mentors handled sex before/after marriage and whether they regretted their decisions, etc.
Sometimes I really can't stand "Christians" because the assholes ruin it for the rest of us and we have to spend a lot of time explaining that we're not crazy. #secretkeepergirls
10/30/09
10/30/09
10/30/09
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10/30/09
*Spoiler Alert*
1. Anal
2. Furious Masturbation
3. Enforced Anatomical Ignorance
4. Denigrating the Non-Pure
5. More Denigrating
6. Ibid
7. Fashion Shows! #secretkeepergirls
10/30/09
In other news, I guess I am one lie-living bitch! #secretkeepergirls
10/30/09
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10/30/09
- don't ever ever ever marry as a virgin. you will be scared and disappointed.
- your virginity should be lost to someone who you really like and who is worth it but it should not be built up as an end all be all, soul mates uniting, heaven's clouds parting act.
- instead, the first time you have sex will be awkward and at least a little painful but i promise it gets better the more you practice.
- don't ever let someone near you without a condom on. don't ever have sex with someone without a condom who you don't want to mate with.
- if anything bad happens, i will go to whatever clinic we need to with you and we don't have to tell dad and you will not be in any kind of trouble.
etc. #secretkeepergirls
10/30/09
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10/30/09
At least that's what I got out of this post. #secretkeepergirls
10/30/09
From the website: "Is my shirt too low? Lean forward a little bit. Can you see too much chest skin or future cleavage? Your shirt is too low."
FUTURE CLEAVAGE?! Yes, I totally get this, making little girls worry about a 'problem' that THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE YET.
I am going to go and be sick now, kthnxbai. #secretkeepergirls
10/30/09
I am just...in awe. Really? Let's promote ownership of a girl/woman's body by their husband/male relatives. That's worked out so well in the past! #secretkeepergirls
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10/30/09
*burp* #secretkeepergirls
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10/30/09
You know what's really damaging? The message that you're worthless if you're not "intact". No mention of what happens if you're abused - you're just not as valuable regardless of the circumstances. I understand that many Christians wouldn't outright blame an abuse victim, but it makes me upset that compassion is almost never part of the purity message. Also that it's always the girls' responsibility to stay pure.
10/30/09
I feel this would be much more effective in Goofus & Gallant form. Perhaps called "Doofus and Damsel," keeping with the virginity focus? #secretkeepergirls
10/30/09
On the other hand, anything that stops the onslaught of slutty stuff for ten-year-olds deserves major applause.
Can we start a secular version of this, one that's pro-good-body-image but anti-purity-for-Jesus? #secretkeepergirls
10/30/09
AND if it wasn't just female abstinence. Where are the books for boys? Why is their purity not valued by God? #secretkeepergirls
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But can I just say? Jesus would make a crappy BFF. All your life, all you'd hear from your parents is, "why can't you be more like that nice young boy, Jesus? He NEVER sasses his parents!" or "why don't you go out with that nice young boy, Jesus? What's so great about that Saul boy?" #secretkeepergirls
10/30/09