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Charm School-ers Bond Over Shared Pasts Of Sexual Abuse

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KLondike5
06/09/09

In reply to Charm School-ers Bond Over Shared Pasts Of Sexual Abuse
I know it isn't true of every single stripper/sex worker/party girl but chances are, if you're getting a lap dance from a young woman, she has sexual abuse in her past.

I think it's important to shine a light on that. There are so many 'happy hooker' myths out there, people don't like to admit the objects of their fantasies (or derision) were vulnerable young girls once, who were very likely abused.

I had to stop watching ROL and ROL related programs. As much as it was campy hair band fun sometimes, I got the feeling BM just liked banging groupies and being on TV. No one really cared who the girls were, they just wanted them to be as over the top as possible.
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sequined
06/09/09

@KLondike5: I do think, though, that lumping "party girls" in with sex workers is dangerous, because I think a lot of young women have just been raised in a culture where they see that giving a dude a lap dance at a frat party is a good way to get attention, sexual abuse in their pasts or no.

I don't think you can get statistics about girls/women who occasionally get drunk and use their bodies/sexuality to get attention (which might read as: almost all women ever) the same way you can study sex workers, if that makes sense.
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Ofmyself
06/09/09

In reply to Charm School-ers Bond Over Shared Pasts Of Sexual Abuse
While I admit to being moved (and pleasantly suprised by the fleeting solidarity amongst the group) from this episode, I really feel like this season of CS has been over-the-top expoloitave - from Gia's extremely disturbing breakdown on the first show to Bubbles almost being forced to reveal her abuse last night...I feel like an emotional peeping Tom when I watch.

I wish the show was still just simply a bunch of rude girls learning manners and fighting about small dogs and fashion choices. The seriousness of what is happening doesn't seem to jive with the point of the show, which at the end of the day is just a contest for $100K.
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Le Kangourou de Kataroo
06/09/09

@Ofmyself: Yeah, adn the dismissal of Natasha because she wouldn't "open up" in therapy when she flat out said, "I'm not ready for this. I made the first step, but I'm not ready." You can't FORCE someone to have a psychological breakthru just because they're on a tv show. Same with Risky. These women didn't need a one-time session with a nutty mediator. These women need extensive therapy to deal with these demons and work through them. If they HAD to make it into a show, make it more like Tool Academy where they had an actual professional working with them throughout the show trying to actually better the people and not make for great tv. I can't believe I just recommended Tool Academy as a beacon to look to, but still - at least that therapist seemed to truly care and be professional and follow through with these people more than Charm School.
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KatrinaBullfinch
06/09/09

In reply to Charm School-ers Bond Over Shared Pasts Of Sexual Abuse
This was a great moment. And yet, the facilitator had no right to point-blank ask her if she had been abused. I really feel that that takes away from her control over whether she wants to share that very personal information.
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merely_a_muse
06/09/09

@KatrinaBullfinch: You have to remember TV editing, there could have been an exchange a lot longer than that that heavily implied or lead to the question in a much less abrupt manner.

I thought the same thing too btw, but I'm hoping it was part of a lot more that we didn't see.
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KatrinaBullfinch
06/09/09

That would mitigate the offense but the facilitator still asked her the question. I still say it's not OK.
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sequined
06/09/09

@KatrinaBullfinch: I didn't take much psych in school, so I'm just wondering if it's ever okay--like in a private counseling session, for instance--for a counselor/psychologist/etc to ask that question so directly? I'm curious because I really don't know; I can see both answers making logical sense, so I'd like an answer from someone who knows the "rules" so to speak.
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Rare Affinity
06/09/09

In reply to Charm School-ers Bond Over Shared Pasts Of Sexual Abuse
I always have misgivings when people come out with such revelations in the context of a reality show. It might well help ratings in a world in which allegedly real-life misery lit often tops the best seller list, but what happens if the person decides later that speaking out so publicly was a mistake? Not everyone who watches such shows will be sympathetic to their plight.
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nessalicious
06/09/09

@Rare Affinity: So you think it's better that she kept it a secret? I think that by speaking out about these things we teach others it is not something to be ashamed of, and that if someone is going to judge you badly for it then it is more of a reflection on them than on you.
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maggiethecat
06/09/09

@Rare Affinity: Who the hell wouldn't be sympathetic to her plight? What kind of evil asshole wouldn't be caring about sexual abuse? And why the fuck should she care whether some inhumane nihilist could give a crap? Should she be ashamed and keep it to herself? That is what plenty of people want, and sounds like what you want. The fact that she had the ovaries to come out with this highly personal, likely "big hurt", on national tv says so much about her- That she wants help. That perhaps someone else will hear her story and identify and might be inspired to speak out. That it will be less taboo and invite a more open dialogue. Rape and abuse don't happen in rare circumstances.

I realize this isn't 20/20 docunews, rather a tawdry reality program. But rape is reality. If it comes out here, then maybe more powerful programs might feel able to broach the subject and not talk about it like it happens in a vacuum.

If she later decides it was a mistake to speak openly about it on tv, as you suggest could happen, wouldn't that be part of perpetration of shame or victim blame that she is perpetrating on herself? She is a victim in that sense too.

Not sure if I'm making sense, but your comment pissed me off. I don't think she came out b/c of ratings boosts. Who the hell makes that up for shits and giggles?
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whynotshesaid
06/09/09

@Rare Affinity: These women are on a reality TV show in which they get so drunk they puke all over themselves, they fight and pull each other's hair and they call each other bitches and sluts, and you think THIS is what will come back to bite them in the ass?
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Rare Affinity
06/09/09

@maggiethecat: @Seirei: @whynotshesaid: @maggiethecat: @nessalicious: I have not been watching this show because it is not shown over here and therefore have no opinions on this contestant. I am speaking in the GENERAL context of revealing traumatic personal information on a reality show,(which has only its rating at heart and the sensational helps ratings), BEFORE perhaps having the chance to talk to a non judgmental counsellor about it. Quite rightly, victims of rape are given anonymity which sometimes they choose to waive, having had the chance to think it through. I have misgivings NOT because such matters should not be discussed but that a reality show is not a forum where confidences will be respected, nor does it afford someone the opportunity for privacy, should they later decide that it was too soon for them to have their personal story in the public arena, which they may ony have told when caught up in the heat of the moment. And as for it not mattering what unsympathetic people might say, well in an ideal word that would be true. But it strikes me as naive to think that people are not hurt when others show a lack of understanding after hearing their stories. As for making up traumatic personal stories, (and I reiterate I did not say or wish to imply that these women were not telling the whole truth and only make this comment in direct response to another commentator's) we witnessed that on the first UK Big Brother when a contestant spoke of his grief that his young wife had been killed in a car crash in France. It later transpired he had never even been married. Likewise, a number of authors have been exposed as telling blatant lies in the recollection of their allegedly horrific childhoods in so called misery lit.
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nessalicious
06/09/09

@Rare Affinity: I think that victims of abuse should be allowed to decide themselves when and where it is suitable for them to bring it up. As someone who was abused myself I know there is no 'right' time to tell someone in your life that this happened, and to be honest the way that this was conducted seems a bit more like an appropriate moment than just blurting it out for no reason. She is never going to be fully prepared for what saying it may entail, and saying it at home, to your loved ones, whilst alone can be just as traumatic. If her saying it on national tv will show some other people it's ok to speak out then I think we shouldn't look down on her.

Bringing up that a BB1 contestant lied about his wife dying (he also lied about a lot of other more superficial things) really just perpetuates the stereotype that girls will lie about such horrific events to get sympathy, when these times are few and far between. There are people who lie, about everything and anything, and they do it at home, in books and all over the shop, how about we just accept her as a victim of abuse and stop condemning with no evidence?
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tomatoheart
06/09/09

In reply to Charm School-ers Bond Over Shared Pasts Of Sexual Abuse
For as many women that I have encountered that have been raped or sexually abused, I still wonder why our society treats it like something that rarely happens. Same with abortion too (but I recognize that isn't the topic here).
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morninggloria
06/09/09

@tomatoheart: Women are expected to bury their pain.
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notheretomakefriends
06/09/09

@tomatoheart: I understand what you say here, but I think the cult of silence and shame that often surround these traumas contribute to that factor. The myths around sexual assault, molestation, and domestic violence are very much rooted in the public consciousness 'it only happens to others' and such.

When people start sharing is when you learn that the same happened to, I dunno, an aunt, that neighbour, a colleague, a close friend etc. and then various people can reajust their pre-conceived notions.
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sequined
06/09/09

@notheretomakefriends: I think this is true about a ton of things--not just sexual abuse, rape, etc. When I found out I have HPV I flipped my shit, and that evening I was out with three friends and it turned out that two of them also have HPV and were able to reassure me that it wasn't terrible and I probably won't get cancer. Breaking silence about things like that invites support and comfort, I think.

Obviously in cases like rape and assault not everyone is ready for support or comfort or even understanding, but I think if we stopped idealizing "staying strong," more people would feel less alone.
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whynotshesaid
06/09/09

@tomatoheart: A huge chunk of the women - and some of the men - I know intimately have been raped, sexually assaulted, molested or coerced into sexual activity. Once you are willing to open your ears and your heart, you start to hear all of these stories.

At the same time, survivors usually aren't inclined to share their stories with people who are judgmental and dismissive, which furthers those people's beliefs that sexual violence is this rare thing.

But once your eyes have been opened to the reality, it's impossible to close them again.
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notheretomakefriends
06/09/09

@notheretomakefriends: continued: I think another factor at play here is that a lot of people just do not want to deal with this reality, because it is dark and depressing.

I know the official stats on rape and molestation in my country, I can give you the name of several free counseling offices that help victims in my area, but that's because it is an issue that hits close to home and is close to my heart.

but I have met many people who avoid 'these type of stories' like the plague in the fiercest hear no evil see no evil fashion, because as long as they avoid it, they don't have to acknowledge it.
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justcallmeangel
06/09/09

@sequined: I've still never told my friends. Well, one.
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notheretomakefriends
06/09/09

@whynotshesaid: At the same time, survivors usually aren't inclined to share their stories with people who are judgmental and dismissive that reminds me of how one of my BFF dealt with her molestation when she was 14. One of her ways to cope with it was to disclose it to pretty much everyone, teachers and students. When she came to the realization that 80% of the knee-jerk responses were 'What were you wearing that day?' and the like is when she started to clam up about it. Cruel and sad, yes, but not so surprising...
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dandelionbrowne
06/09/09

@notheretomakefriends:

Silence keeps you from being colored in other people's eyes as a victim or "that type of woman". As if rape is something that happens people who are vulnerable or somehow deserving.

I'm vocal about my assault and the process of becoming so quickly showed me who my real friends are. Sometimes admitting your experience can be like being assaulted all over again
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notheretomakefriends
06/09/09

@dandelionbrowne: I shut up about mine for the longest time because it made me feel like damaged goods.

a broken doll if you will, but not in the fashiony editiorial way Miss Jay cherishes so much ;)
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sequined
06/09/09

@justcallmeangel: I still have very mixed feelings about it, and I worry about telling people because it's essentially an STD and there's SUCH stigma, even though I almost certainly got it while in a committed, monogamous relationship (the only times I have sex w/o a condom/usually the only times I manage to get laid on the regular), and of course the dude probably didn't know he had it. But I think like a lot of things we're ashamed of, it would add to societal understanding if people would just say "yeah, I have HPV" or "yeah, I was raped" or "yeah, I had an abortion." I know it seems weird to list those things like they're equivalent, but I do think there's a similar "cult of silence" around them all.
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dissolver
06/09/09

In reply to Charm School-ers Bond Over Shared Pasts Of Sexual Abuse
It's cool to see a moment like this on this sort of show.

It's incredibly sad that sexual abuse is so common that it's something so many of them can relate to and bond over.
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zombie.nancy is a godess of fierce
06/09/09

@dissolver: you wouldn't believe how common it is to share something like this & then have one or two friends./aquaintances chime in with similar experiences.
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thesciencegirl wields the truth like a mighty axe.
06/09/09

@dissolver: The number of people I know who have been molested or raped is staggering. I was sharing this with my best friend back in college, and she knew a similar number. It's heartbreakingly common.
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