Can I mention no one has answered the question.

I am out. I can't be bothered. You hold onto your privilege, I'll hold onto my opinion.

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So, white people are giving her a pass because they can identify with her because white people are passive-agressive?

I can't even begin to understand this.

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Also, PS most of us, ya know dumb privileged white girls liked the winner, who shockingly was black. I personally never thought Celia was contender, I thought her attitude was granted and since she was essentially a 25 year old woman stuck in a house full of girls who didnt know who Carmen Miranda was, she held it pretty together. But you stick to your opinion.

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Vaguely related side note: a few (presumably white) folks were up in arms on a previous thread because Tyra seems to select black girls with a "suspicious frequency" (in more than a dozen shows, she's selected only 4 black girls, I believe). Still, because Tyra's black, there's an assumed black conspiracy; more than a few Jezzies expressed a dissatisfaction about Tyra's "bias". However, I never hear that when the girl Tyra selects is white. Some white people do assume a bias on the part of black people, but deny they may have a subconscious bias of their own.

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And anyhow, no one liked the white princess from Palo Alto (Natalie) and everyone likes Teyona for being good natured. So now what?

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As far as Celia goes- it's not like she magically became 25 mid-season. That's what's ridiculous about the whole thing.

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I mean, I also think casting Tahlia was unfair- not because she was a burn victim, but because she was too big to be a regular model and too small to be a plus-size model. I honestly felt like Tyra was using her condition for a plotline and to make herself look like a super great person. That was pretty much confirmed for me when she had them all on her regular show and spent the whole time patting herself on the back for having had a burn victim on the show. Not cool.

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But the OP is not talking about ANY of these things. The OP is just reducing these issues in an inane way by calling out support for Celia as simply some master race bias. The argument does not even succeed in a logical way. If people like Celia because she gets the "white pass," what if you don't like her? And if I like Teyona then this means...? And then later, you say it is a matter of opinion -- if white people are reduced to racial bias in their opinions, are you?

So congrats that the two of you found this logical and are so eager to leave spiteful comments in lieu of reasonable dialogue. It must be hard when others don't see the "truth" that Aminat was much more likeable than Celia because we're all blinded by white privilege. I don't have any spreadsheets but I'm not white and I've learned that life is not bifurcated into white-camp with white-privilege and black-camp, black-abjection. Seriously.

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I was on my way to bed...but THIS woke me up.

THIS is what I mean.

Thank you.

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Eh, honestly, I liked Celia from the beginning, almost entirely because she reminded me of Martha Plimpton. In my mind, she's Martha Plimpton, and therefore can do no wrong. Also, I wanted her outfits. A lot.

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This makes no sense. I am Asian and my favorite contestants were Teyona and Allison. No one has yet explained why I presumably like these women because of the race-pass. Seemingly, you cannot either because you have consistently failed to engage in dialogue and can only retreat back to angry, wounded responses.

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@baraqiel: The irony of my participation in this thread is that I don't dislike Celia. I actually thought she was quite interesting...and I liked her clothes. Actually, I didn't really like Teyona all that much. She's gorgeous, but I liked Aminat more and really wanted to see her work to her full potential. That said, I was struck by the response to SShacker's initial comment. It's like, dude, let's burn an effigy whenever one brings up the mere possibility of white bias. I've seen that kind of mob gang-up before; when (presumably) white Jezzies don't like what a JOC (Jezzie of Color) has to say. I didn't like it then...don't like it now. Some people tend to think that being liberal, college-educated and feminist somehow makes them impervious to possessing racist sentiments and culturally-biased tendencies. And I call bullshit. I've noticed that when someone suggests that a person can possess all of these qualities and still be just a tad-bit racist, heads friggin' roooolll. In my head I'm thinking, at some point in their liberal education they must have taken a medical class or two, because they had to have removed a few of ribs to suck their own dicks like that. Everyone has a bias. I have 'em and I admit it. I own that shit. And daily I try to fix that shit. I just like for people to be real and accept that bias does exist. In my initial comment, I mentioned how more than a few Jezzies felt Tyra was bias for selecting 4 black winners. However, they refuse to believe themselves vulnerable to falling victim to the same tendency. Poppycock.

Also, if anyone pointed into my plate after I expressly told them not to, they would have pulled back a nub. Maybe that's a black thing. I don't know.

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@baraqiel: Self-imposed Jezebel exile for a week, seriously.

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Also, I agree with what you told baraquiel. Whenever a jezebel of color says something that one of the white jezebels disagrees with there's a huge pile on. Eh. But I've kind of gotten used to it.

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I'm not saying that this doesn't have to do with race or privilege. It does, although I don't think it functions in a straightforward way. The problem is that while people may be cognizant of racism and discrimination in some cases, in others it is dismissed as unimportant or tangental. The unfortunate truth of the matter is that racism and discrimination are at play constantly - however, oftentimes a member of a privileged group (whether or not the member recognizes the privilege or takes conscious advantage of it) cannot see this because they are not used to constantly dealing with the issues.

Back to the original issue of the thread - personally, I don't think the affection for Celia on this site has to deal with race - I think it was because she was an interesting character. But I can only surmise this based on my own perspective - she was interesting to watch, although I am greatly disturbed by some of her comments. The fact that she is white may influence other's opinions, but it is a little unfair to imply that that is the reason people like her. Now, sshacker didn't do this at first, but the sentence about "identifying" with her could easily be interpreted that way.

It's really unfortunate that discussions like these tend to polarize the commenting community here and pit people against each other. This was the perfect place for a discussion about racism and privilege, but it's been distracted by comments on all sides of the issue. There's some great discussion in some posts, but I fear that isn't what people are going to remember from this thread.

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One of the pitfalls of any discussion (especially online) is the difficulties of communication. This is exacerbated at Jezebel when everyone seems to have a different assumption about what/who/why this community signifies. Also, everyone has different experiences posting. Imo, the race threads tend to have strong dialogue and it surprised me to see this site characterized as bullying to WOC and imagined to be 85% white/whitish (what does whitish mean?). And despite what Topsy says, I identify as a WOC.

What triggered the argument here was not a disavowal of racism per se - it was massive confusion at the original post. There were a mix of genuine confusion and some angry responses precisely because no one quite understood what SS was getting at. I didn't.

From that point, people's confusion or reaction was read as as a disavowal of racism and/or affirming racial bias. This also was likely triggered by other experiences on Jezebel and each person's perception about what/who/etc this community is/means. ie. "Oh there they go again ignoring racial privilege!" or "this poster is so obvs ______ because I can tell etc."

Okay, I get that. And I get that there is an ongoing problem concerning race in fashion AND on this board.

But mis-communicating (or being unclear) and then declaring other people's confusion as evidence of unconscious bias is unfair. Really? Tomorrow we're going to say this was one of the stupidest shit storm threads ever - though, it was pretty funny to read.

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I don't give a damn about privilege and all this other crap people throw in each other's faces. You made a generic insulting racist statement based on a stereotype you have in your mind, and if it were the other way around you would be furious. I've never even seen the damn show and I am seriously disturbed by your comment, which was clearly meant to antagonize.

You obviously prefer to cater to your own feelings than to find a way for people of all races to live together harmoniously. I'm sure you've had bad experiences and that is what your beliefs are based on, and for that I'm sorry.

Martin Luther King, Jr., said "An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity." Rise above sshacker... Rise above.

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And the Tyra bias is real, but its not a racial bias - you inferring it is your own thing.

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My question is how me liking Celia pointing out what at least ten other contestants have said, including black girls, and me appreciating that makes her a sad bitter white chick and me inherently racist and privileged?

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The thing is, we all sort of forget that we're actual people behind these screennames and avatars. We forget the wealth and diversity of experience that each person has, and therefore we don't discuss with people, we argue with sentences on the internet.

And then sometimes people get sick of trying to rehash an argument, and then snarking starts. And that gets nowhere, because then people feel isolated and attacked, and everything goes to shit.

But once in a while, a good discussion comes out of it. There's a bit here.

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I'm sorry if my being born white upsets you, but what can I do about it? Instead of hurling words like privileged at me, tell me what I can do to make your life better. I'll do my very best, but please stop feeling bad about me because of my color.

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Why are you so sorry to be white? Keep reap the benefits, recognize your privilege and keep it truckin'.

"Tell me what I can do to make your life better. I'll do my very best, but please stop feeling bad about me because of my color."

Since when has it been POCs duty to instruct white folk on how they should be treated? No one is feeling bad about you for for your color, and this ain't reverse racism. I would expect that you would know the error in your ways since you have "literally spent your entire life working to get people to appreciate each others differences." I think you should check your own priviledge (since you don't give a damn about it) and re evaluate why you feel so attacked.

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