Magda Goebbels killing her children is terrifying. She basically said "I had my children for the Reich and now there is no Reich." She seems to have bought her husband's propaganda more than anyone in Germany.
@LaComtesse:
Completely. I watched Downfall (which is so so so good, I highly recommend it), and the Goebbels were the creepiest characters by far; you could tell Hitler had lost his mind at the end, but they seemed to be lucid in their blind love for the Reich.
@paloma loves a wild rumpus: The phrasing of it, "I need your help in the killing of the children," is so machine-like. Not even MY children. Just THE children.
President Obama will donate the $1.4 million cash award that comes with the Nobel Peace Prize to charity, but hasn't decided which organizations he'll give it to
I would see things as going in a more positive direction if the Vatican prosecutor were talking more about prevention and prosecution rather than "healing". I'm not sure that it's healing that the perpetrators need.
And here's another thing that has always really pissed me off. Why is it that local diocese can file "bankruptcy", when they are irrevocably linked and sponsored by the wealthiest church on the planet. The surviving victims should all be awarded HUGE compensation packages. Only then will the Catholic Church have the motivation to institute stringent preventative measures world wild. It's time for them to stop screwing around, with the victims and the perpetrators.
Fuck the Catholic Church. Until they get out in front of this and deal with the perpetrators as the criminals they are, all around the world, they don't get to say anything to anyone about how to live. The fact that their idea of dealing with it is to move the pedophile priests around to different parishes rather than root out the bad apples is just sickening. I'm done with these people. These are supposed to be moral paragons for everyone to follow?
I can't even. First, abusing any child is clearly wrong. But to compound that with disabled children just makes me want to vomit.
I know that this is technically a positive step towards acknowledging abuse...but...I'm just disgusted with the Vatican's stance on this. Penn & Teller did a Bullshit on it that really...the corruption on top of the abuse just makes me ill.
I still can't believe there is a statue of limitations on sexual abuse charges. There are people who were abused 40 years ago who are still dealing with the fallout from it. Shouldn't they get justice too?
Quick nitpick - in your third paragraph, "As Winfeld says, the dead students were targeted particularly because their speech impairments" should probably be "deaf". Totally threw me for a loop :D
And kudos to Scicluna, for admitting that these things have always happened, and it's not that they are increasing. It's that more people are able to come forward and that we are more capable of discussing it.
I've only read a little about this and I do know some nuns are really upset, but I feel like the post is pretty misleading.
They are selling convents, but a lot of that has to do with the decline in vocations (aka people who want to be nuns). The numbers have plummeted and a lot of these convents were nearly empty, so they're consolidating. It isn't like nuns are being kicked out of their homes. The child molestation lawsuits are having a bigger impact on Catholic schools. The money has to come from somewhere and Catholic schools were often heavily subsidized.
The other thing is that most orders have a mission statement, women pick an order partly based on how they want to serve. There are teaching orders, there are orders that work with the poor, and there are less common cloistered orders.
There are lots of messed up things about the Catholic Church, but I'm not ready to call this a witch hunt yet.
@clevernamehere: I feel like the biggest red flag is the fact that they have not identified the alleged infraction they are investigating, which the article says is an anomaly.
@clevernamehere: I don't believe that for a minute. I have way too many religious friends, priests and nuns who have been excommunicated and forced from communal religious life. They are impoverished and alone and yet still consider themselves people of the cloth. This Vatican has aggressively threatened for example Father Roy Bourgois for presiding over the ordination of some women. His status is unknown at the moment. I think peoples livelihoods are really at risk here. If nothing else it has a chilling effect on innovation in religious life from the left, while new forms of consecrated life from the right, like Opus Dei, get designated special status, when their interpretations are just as unorthodox as liberation theologians or nuns who agitate for womens ordination. I refuse to ratify the current conservative mood at the Vatican as the permanent truth of the church. The church is not only the Vatican, it is also the lived realities of the religious, what the church calls the Body of Christ. The vision they are pursuing is not unamiguously authentic Catholicism either.
@J.D.Regent: Ordaining women is at this point really radical. I wouldn't be surprised if they were going after things like that because it is in direct contradiction of Vatican teachings and everyone but the Jesuits swears their loyalty to the Pope.
I do think that's fucked up, but there is a big leap between that and forcing every nun to be cloistered or leave.
@clevernamehere: Thanks Clevernamehere. I agree that this post is really misleading, and I've been reading these comments desperately hoping to find someone else who agrees. Also, thanks for all the counterpoints you addressed. You said it much better than I ever could.
@NewsBunny - I'm sorry but that's not entirely a relevant point. Maybe the Prada loafers, but that's like a drop of water in an ocean.
Jesus Christ was attacked during his own time for not giving enough to the poor - don't forget the woman who anointed him with extremely expensive oil, which caused many to be upset that she wasted all her money on it. Jesus' response was that her actions were proper.
The money, gold, palaces, fabrics, paintings, etc. do not exist for the glory of those who use them. They exist to glorify God in their usage. As Catholics, we believe that we should glorify God above all things. And that includes helping the poor. I'm sorry if that rubs you the wrong way, but that's what the religion teaches.
@thebigm42: I'm not with you on that, big. Many times in religious writings, God asks us to glorify him thorugh our actions. Not through errecting palaces.
@JudastheObscurest: they don't want to be outside the church. they want to be in it. they just want to be respected while they are there. i don't think it's fair to say we should just cede all institutions to their worst elements. It's sort of like, America: love it or leave it, you know?
Good piece. This whole situation is crazy but what really fascinates me is the obsession the Vatican appears to have with America. There are nuns in Italy who teach at universities, there are nuns in the UK who teach, who work in hospitals, who work in the communities, I've interviewed them and my own former headmistress held a phd in child psychology and lectured at Surry University in addition to being headmistress of my school - and no one is telling them to stop, so what exactly is going on here? And why?
@emilyanne: they are OBSESSED with us!!!! I don't know if it is just our insanely conservative Bishops inviting them over, or what. I feel like they don't even get involved in abortion debates in Europe. But here it's like their number one issue. Leave us the fuck alone, right?
@emilyanne: All of what you said is common in the US too. I tend doubt that's who they are concerned about. There are some more radical nuns out there, I think nuns are to the 00s as the Jesuits were to the 60s.
The reason the Vatican cares so much about the US is there are a millions of well off Catholic in the US who still donate a lot of money but used to donate a lot more.
Holy shit, I was seriously JUST reading this in the times and wondered if Jez would cover it.
I am BEYOND angry. Pope FAIL. Way to work on disproving how the catholic church oppresses women. Awesome. Going after your own women? Seriously?!
I know so many amazing, strong, progressively-minded, kickass nuns and I would wholeheartedly leave the church faster than you can say "Jesus H Christ" if the Pope beat the spunk and strength out of them.
This is all colors of wrong. And the church wonders why there are no new nuns. Seriously displeased.
I think the Catholic needs to to rise up and give women a better voice in the matter. When I was a practicing Catholic I would see more women in church than men, and more women doing the charitable work, than men.
@envirodesigner: I have actually heard priests argue that the reason women can't be priests is because the church is already so feminized because of lay women's leadership on those kinds of activities. It takes balls of steel, or absolutely no sense of shame whatsoever, to make the claim that an all-male priesthood is a form of affirmative action for men in the church.
10/09/09
10/09/09
Completely. I watched Downfall (which is so so so good, I highly recommend it), and the Goebbels were the creepiest characters by far; you could tell Hitler had lost his mind at the end, but they seemed to be lucid in their blind love for the Reich.
10/09/09
10/09/09
ACORN!!
10/09/09
10/09/09
Anything that will make Glenn Beck's head explode for real.
10/09/09
10/09/09
10/09/09
HA! Good. Answer.
10/09/09
09/15/09
And here's another thing that has always really pissed me off. Why is it that local diocese can file "bankruptcy", when they are irrevocably linked and sponsored by the wealthiest church on the planet. The surviving victims should all be awarded HUGE compensation packages. Only then will the Catholic Church have the motivation to institute stringent preventative measures world wild. It's time for them to stop screwing around, with the victims and the perpetrators.
09/15/09
09/15/09
09/15/09
I know that this is technically a positive step towards acknowledging abuse...but...I'm just disgusted with the Vatican's stance on this. Penn & Teller did a Bullshit on it that really...the corruption on top of the abuse just makes me ill.
09/15/09
09/15/09
And kudos to Scicluna, for admitting that these things have always happened, and it's not that they are increasing. It's that more people are able to come forward and that we are more capable of discussing it.
09/15/09
07/02/09
They are selling convents, but a lot of that has to do with the decline in vocations (aka people who want to be nuns). The numbers have plummeted and a lot of these convents were nearly empty, so they're consolidating. It isn't like nuns are being kicked out of their homes. The child molestation lawsuits are having a bigger impact on Catholic schools. The money has to come from somewhere and Catholic schools were often heavily subsidized.
The other thing is that most orders have a mission statement, women pick an order partly based on how they want to serve. There are teaching orders, there are orders that work with the poor, and there are less common cloistered orders.
There are lots of messed up things about the Catholic Church, but I'm not ready to call this a witch hunt yet.
07/02/09
07/02/09
07/02/09
I do think it is a little fucked up, but I don't think they are going to ban nuns from teaching or stop them from working with the poor.
07/02/09
07/02/09
I do think that's fucked up, but there is a big leap between that and forcing every nun to be cloistered or leave.
07/02/09
Or from the Pope not living in a Palace?
Or from the Catholic Church melting down and getting rid of all that gold?
Or...mmmm, so many things.
Jesus Christ did not in a palace. Jesus led a life of poverty, administering to the lowest members of society.
One of the reasons I left the Catholic Church is because of the fabulous among of do as I say, not as do-ism there.
07/03/09
@NewsBunny - I'm sorry but that's not entirely a relevant point. Maybe the Prada loafers, but that's like a drop of water in an ocean.
Jesus Christ was attacked during his own time for not giving enough to the poor - don't forget the woman who anointed him with extremely expensive oil, which caused many to be upset that she wasted all her money on it. Jesus' response was that her actions were proper.
The money, gold, palaces, fabrics, paintings, etc. do not exist for the glory of those who use them. They exist to glorify God in their usage. As Catholics, we believe that we should glorify God above all things. And that includes helping the poor. I'm sorry if that rubs you the wrong way, but that's what the religion teaches.
07/08/09
07/02/09
07/02/09
07/02/09
07/02/09
07/02/09
07/02/09
The reason the Vatican cares so much about the US is there are a millions of well off Catholic in the US who still donate a lot of money but used to donate a lot more.
07/02/09
I am BEYOND angry. Pope FAIL. Way to work on disproving how the catholic church oppresses women. Awesome. Going after your own women? Seriously?!
I know so many amazing, strong, progressively-minded, kickass nuns and I would wholeheartedly leave the church faster than you can say "Jesus H Christ" if the Pope beat the spunk and strength out of them.
This is all colors of wrong. And the church wonders why there are no new nuns. Seriously displeased.
07/02/09
*sigh*
07/02/09