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Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
Calorie Counting: Worth The Effort Or Anxiety?

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Dauphine
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
Whoa, slow down on the French hate there.

There are commercials extolling the virtues of high fructose corn syrup? I don't think there's even anything that I eat that HAS corn syrup in it. Is it one of those "stops at the border between US/Canada" things? Because your pop is a lot sweeter.

What, eating less means you'll lose weight? Pfft, common sense. That went out a century ago, we just need evolution to catch up with us and the stuff we're eating now. None of this hundreds of varieties of vegetables while only a couple dozen are in the supermarche.
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clevernamehere
12/02/08

@Dauphine: I'm pretty sure corn syrup is just called Glucose-Fructose in Canada. And if you think US soda is sweet, you should try the Mexican stuff.
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Dauphine
12/02/08

@clevernamehere: Thanks for the clarification. I could only remember one instance of actually seeing corn syrup in a food object once, and found myself puzzling over its existence in Canada. Eh, I'll stick to sugaring-up things with maple syrup.

One day, I want to gather different kinds of pop from around the world, and go through a taste-test, seeing the differences in how they taste. I blame my friend who brought back pop from Jordan.
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Sukie in the Graveyard
12/02/08

@Dauphine: steer clear of the the Coke from Belize. It will rot the teeth right out of your head.

My roommate has a bottle of it if you don't believe me. (she saved it for posterity)
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RussellCougar
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
Sorry, Jessica, but you misinterpreted both the study and Tierney's article. I am an American graduate student at the French business school where this study was conducted and I am friends with the co-author of this study (who is from Kazakhstan, BTW). Pierre Chandon, the French "doctor" is actually a PhD in marketing, not a medical doctor. He has spent several years in the US, so he is quite familiar with differences in French and American eating cultures.

The study is actually about "context effects", how putting the same object next to a different reference point skews people's perceptions. Brian Wansink at Cornell University does very similar and famous research where putting the same amount of soup into a different sized bowl changes the amount that people eat. Is that good 'ole boy American enough for you? Yes, John Tierney hyped the experiment in order to make it interesting reading, but that's no reason to misinterpret the findings.

BTW, Pierre Chandon and Nailya Ordabayeva helped Tierney do an online experiment on NYT readers and Tierney will print the results tomorrow.
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Sukie in the Graveyard
12/02/08

@RussellCougar: Thanks for the background info.

I don't think the interpretation of the findings was off though.

Just the final quotation from Dr. Chandon may have been misinterpreted as a generalization toward the stereotype that Americans are fat.
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Alys Brangwin has a huge talent
12/02/08

@RussellCougar: Where are they from in Kazakhstan? I was in the Peace Corps in Turkistan until I got pneumonia. I perk up when Kstan is mentioned outside the context of "Oh isn't that where Borat is from?"
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SisterMaryMartha
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
Whoa dude.
The use of Frog is just WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.
Also, not funny.
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stoprobbers
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
There is a very, very simple set of rules, espoused by Michael Pollan. I will summarize here:

1. Don't eat food your great-grandmother wouldn't recognize (as food).

2. Do not eat food that has "ingrediants" which are A. unfamiliar, B. unpronounceable, and C. more than five in number (this is for a single food product, not for a meal. Obviously, you would want "stew" to have as many ingrediants as you want it to, but you don't want "carrots" to have more than, say, ONE)

3. Avoid products that make health claims (ding, ding, ding!)

4. Stick to the edges of the supermarket (where the produce, dairy, and meat is)

5. Get out of the supermarket

For. Fucking. Realz.

Food -- real food, not the crap you buy in a box -- will only make you gain weight if you spend 24 hours stuffing your face. Real food is full of healthiness, even if it's something like BUTTER. Real food will nourish you and encourage weight loss because real food wants to be used by your body. It's the processed, "0 trans fat," "lite" or "diet" foods that get you.

*Puts on Champion of Real Food costume and steals away into the night to put real butter on every table and raw milk cheese in every home*
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gherkinfiend
12/02/08

@stoprobbers: You've got a point...Britain doesn't have such big restaurant portions as the USA, I've never seen the words trans-fat free on packaging...and yet the UK is the most obese nation in Europe.

I'm guessing this is people eat more processed foods than real unadulturated ones...which are higher in calories yet don't seem to be as satisfying, so you eat more to fill yourself up which really helps pile weight on in comparison...
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stoprobbers
12/02/08

@gherkinfiend: From the documentaries I've seen and the articles I've read, that seems to be exactly the problem affecting the UK. One of the good things about it, though, is that a group of Brits are really focusing on getting the word out as to which foods are sustainably farmed and raised in the UK, and which includes a lot of really incredible vegetation and also SEAFOOD. The UK seems to be on the verge of rediscovering its own natural wonders, and it's such a lush, fertile land..
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gherkinfiend
12/02/08

@stoprobbers: Parts of Britain are realising that it is healthier for them (and the planet) to eat local produce rather than heavily processed stuff or items that have been shipped halfway round the world...

Personally I just find it cheaper to eat like this than buy boxed stuff. It's a nice bonus that it's healthier too! (Although this post has made me stupidly hungry and ready to eat anything at hand!)
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clevernamehere
12/02/08

@gherkinfiend: The UK, like the US, also has a lot of food deserts- places where whole foods are basically inaccessible. There was a lot of press a few years ago about the high number of people in council estates that had scurvy. Everyone was eating most of their meals at the chippy and weren't even drinking juice.
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gherkinfiend
12/02/08

@clevernamehere: while you're right about the food deserts, the scurvy thing was a myth. There were one or two cases which hit the headlines because of their rarity...
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Hana Maru
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
I've been to France where people eat pastries for breakfast, meat, cheese and starch for lunch, and something gratineed for dinner with more white french bread and butter on the side. And the restaurant portions really aren't different from those in America, unless you count chain restaurants. Americans eat more vegetables than the french do, and we don't simmer them in goose fat. Y'know what the difference is? It's not that we don't enjoy our food properly, it's that French people smoke like chimneys. So did we, but then Americans started becoming fatter when we started smoking less.
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LimitedLiabilityGirl
12/02/08

@HanaMaru: This post does not bode well for my ever quitting smoking....
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Sukie in the Graveyard
12/02/08

@LimitedLiabilityGirl: just don't replace your smoking habit with an overeatting habit. You can actually quit without gaining weight.

You might actually find that it's easier to lose weight.

Or rather, eat better. Instead of a smoke break - have an apple break. WAY tastier.
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LimitedLiabilityGirl
12/02/08

@Sukie in the Graveyard: Aw, thanks! Don't worry, though -- I wasn't actually planning to quit.
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Sukie in the Graveyard
12/02/08

@LimitedLiabilityGirl: well, now I'm just disappointed :(
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mllej
12/02/08

@HanaMaru: Woah, really? I lived there for five years and I never saw a meal portion in a restaurant even approaching one in a typical American restaurant. Even the fast food places didn't go as big as those stateside from what I saw.
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lanersg
12/02/08

@mllej: I agree. My sister has been living in Paris these last 6 years and portions are small. Most people get an entree (appetizer), a main course, and a desert and you actually eat all three as they're manageable. That and a bottle of wine per person!
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Hana Maru
12/02/08

@mllej: Maybe we're going to different American restaurants?
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mllej
12/02/08

@lanersg: Lucky you, with a place to crash in Paris. :) Now I want a bottle of red....
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mllej
12/02/08

@HanaMaru: I don't think we need to be frequenting the same restaurants to know how massive the typical restaurant serving is here, but maybe that's just me.
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clevernamehere
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
French doctor needs to shut up. Obesity is a growing problem in France. Their rate of overweight is 40% compared to 50% in the US/UK. Obesity is a global problem.
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PilgrimSoul
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
Holy crap I still cannot believe all the hostility from people who are supposedly all, "don't judge us americans by the worst of us!"
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Eeva
12/02/08

@PilgrimSoul: It's ridiculous, right? A doctor who happens to be French says something (something reasonable, by the way, although that is actually beside the point) and all 65 million French people are responsible? What the fucking fuck? and you can only talk about American problems if you're American? Let's restrict Crappy Hour to US politics only, so!

For the love of Boursin, people, shut your crackerholes and think before you type.
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SisterMaryMartha
12/02/08

@Eeva: Not for some Boursin, but I would consider it for a wedge of Tillamook Cheddar.
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Eeva
12/02/08

@SisterMaryMartha: What about a little Saint Agur blue with a chunk of Dubliner*, which is like a mature cheddar but better? Let's leave the French out of this altogether!

*These are both in my fridge right now, and I am having great trouble resisting the urge to shmear them on a Ryvita.
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Sukie in the Graveyard
12/02/08

@SisterMaryMartha: Gah! I think I love you.

I live an hour away from the Tillamook Cheese Factory. And yes, I have been to the 'museum' :)

It is a serious source of pride for me.
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R_Claw
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
using derogatory terms = not cool Jez
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ceejeemcbeegee is not here
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
Portions are way out of control in this country. Ever been to Olive Garden?
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BlondeGrlz
12/02/08

@ceejeemcbeegee: I can't go to Olive Garden because there is always a 2 hour wait. TWO HOURS. I live in a place that has absolutely no variety in our restaurants - the choices are burgers or Italian. And yet every single person in a forty mile radius goes to the goddam Olive Garden.
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ceejeemcbeegee is not here
12/02/08

@BlondeGrlz is having a BlondeBoyz!: Ya know, I've ntoiced that too... what's the deal with the long wait?
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stoprobbers
12/02/08

@ceejeemcbeegee: I had never been to an Olive Garden until I was in college, when my roommate nearly had a stroke when I informed her of that fact. That immediately led to the rolling of a huge joint, the smoking of a huge joint, and a trip to the Olive Garden for the Never Ending Pasta Bowl.

I've never been to the Olive Garden for any other reason than that, but I have to say... I became a convert. :)
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SisterMaryMartha
12/02/08

@ceejeemcbeegee: @BlondeGrlz is having a BlondeBoyz!: Thank the gods for small favors. That place serves food that is an obscenity in the mouth. AS italian as my ass, which is um, English, Croatian, Irish and Welsh.
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Kshine
12/02/08

@SisterMaryMartha: and every time i see those commercials about how the chefs go to "cooking school" in italy, i gag-- last time i checked layers of cream sauce and cheese and breaded fried meats, etc and so forth, are NOT true "Italian" food, this is what we call an interpretation of "Italian-American" food (says my Italian relatives, right off the boat)
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Alys Brangwin has a huge talent
12/02/08

@Kshine: I had an Italian exchange student living with my family when I was in tenth grade. We took her in after the people her agency put her with were horrible. They took her to the Olive Garden, but they told her they were going to get "Italian food." She told me that she couldn't understand where they got the idea that this was Italian. We found a different restaurant owned by some Italian folk who immigrated from Puglia, and she pronounced that as the true "Italian food" available in our area. I gag when I see those ads.
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Sukie in the Graveyard
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
Okay, Jezzies, I have to recommend a book I am reading right now. Incredibly enlightening - you will get through a grocery store faster than ever and with a better cart of food.

PLEASE READ THIS

[www.amazon.com]

please - I don't make these recommendations often.
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ceejeemcbeegee is not here
12/02/08

@Sukie in the Graveyard: Thank you for that! What a great find!
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happysquid
12/02/08

@Sukie in the Graveyard: just read her pet food book, the Chihuahua in the Coal Mine. Well written!
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stoprobbers
12/02/08

@Sukie in the Graveyard: Can I add in a recommendation of Michael Pollan's "In Defense of Food"?

[www.amazon.com]

Oh, wait, I just did...
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Sukie in the Graveyard
12/02/08

@stoprobbers: my mom just finished that book - she said that she has a hard time eating certain foods now and it kinda scares me...

I may have to read that a WHILE after I finish this one.
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stoprobbers
12/02/08

@Sukie in the Graveyard: It does kind of freak you out, but ultimately it's a reminder that food is something we've always had and always will, and if you keep things in line with nature -- food from the garden, from the farm, from somewhere with faces and names that aren't brand names or generic names, you know food with a connection to people who have a connection to the earth itself -- you're going to be eating better for yourself, your community, your country, and your planet.
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stoprobbers
12/02/08

@Sukie in the Graveyard: And, actually, his whole call to arms sums it up best:

Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.

Really, that's all you have to do.
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PilgrimSoul
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
So, I don't love the French either, but if it's wrong to make over-generalizations about Americans, commenter-friends, it's also wrong to be all "the French are snotty!" Either nationality determines persoonality or it doesn't, so some consistency is in order, methinks.
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ceejeemcbeegee is not here
12/02/08

@PilgrimSoul: Agreed. I loved the French.
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Hana Maru
12/02/08

@PilgrimSoul: I'm pretty sure, with the context, that was just an unironic insult.
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Hana Maru
12/02/08

@HanaMaru: Although one of the editors might still say that some of us can't take a joke.
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Sukie in the Graveyard
12/02/08

@PilgrimSoul: I'm sorry I over generalized the French dude. And thus all French people.

I just can't get past the sting of Europeans calling Americans fat. I guess it hurts me more than it hurts US.

I also don't think that just by Being French or participating in the same cultures one escapes the possibility of being overweight. (this book really pissed me off [www.amazon.com])

But, all in all, I wish more American educated THEMSELVES about food and nutrition. The food pyramid will not hold your hand.
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PilgrimSoul
12/02/08

@Sukie in the Graveyard: I can cosign all of that.

I think mostly, what with Freedom Fries nonsequiturs, it came from a weird reactionary knee-jerk nationalism from a lot of people. which I find bizarre.
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Sukie in the Graveyard
12/02/08

@PilgrimSoul: yeah, the knee-jerk is rampant. Sadly.
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sequined
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
Psh, the problem isn't that we don't enjoy food, Mr. Frenchie, but that we enjoy it more than we ought. Geeeez.
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Sukie in the Graveyard
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
"most informed" ?? HA! Are you kidding me?

Between the FDA, the USDA and agriculture lobbyists, all Americans know are facades.

But still - your arrogance is typical of your french-ness. How do you like them apples?
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PilgrimSoul
12/02/08

@Sukie in the Graveyard: HEY! We're commenter-friends, and I am half-French.
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Sukie in the Graveyard
12/02/08

@PilgrimSoul: haha, sorry - i was generalizing his generalization. it's a habit.

(I also tend to hit back when hit - not too proud of that...)
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Lymed
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
This actually a highlights another problem related to all the public health efforts to eliminate trans fat. All kinds of food products and restaurants have replaced trans fat with other fat. This is good in the sense that trans fat increases bad cholesterol and coronary artery disease. But it doesn't mean there is less fat in the product, and too many people probably don't understand that 1 gram of trans fat has the same calories as 1 gram of the healthiest fat.
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BlondeGrlz
12/02/08

@Lymed: People don't understand calories, period. I consider myself fairly intelligent when it comes to food but sometimes even I forget that these "1/2 the fat!!!" potato chips are not a health food.
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clevernamehere
12/02/08

@Lymed: This is why its good that NYC paired the transfat ban with calorie displays. You walk into McDonald's and right there next to the price is the calorie count of everything. A lot of people still don't understand the numbers and it only applies to chains, but it is something.
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LimitedLiabilityGirl
12/02/08

In reply to Yuppie Foodies Hoodwinked By "Health Halo"
I probably need to drink more red wine.

What do you mean, "no"?
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pinkyBella
12/02/08

@LimitedLiabilityGirl: The French drink tons of red wine! So your theory of drinking more of it sounds good to me!
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