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France May Ban The Burqa • Couple With Swine Flu Weds
| posts about #burqa more → |
France May Ban The Burqa • Couple With Swine Flu Weds |
06/19/09
[gatewaypundit.blogspot.com]
[www.liveleak.com]
[www.danielpipes.org]
i'm all for religious rights, but i'm also for public safety and if you can't determine that a person in a burka is not a crazy man robbing a bank, they shouldn't be allowed in public places.
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No religious signs are allowed in public schools. You can go to a private school (usually around 2000 dollars a year or less) that caters to your religious creed.
The problem with headscarves and co is that often girls who wear them will not participate in co-ed gym classes. French officials see this as sexist, since both sexes must have gym classes. Another issue is that the French see school as a place where students put aside their different backgrounds to learn together. If Jewish students refuse to come to exams on Saturdays, this undermines the equality system.
A teacher friend of mine removes her headscarf before teaching.
Please note that many vacations are Catholic ones, and that the school canteens serve fish on Fridays. They also must provide for hallal and kosher habits.It's a complicated situation.
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It's not a cut and dry issue. Generally the Europeans are of a mind that if you want to live in their country, great, but you need to abide by their rules and traditions. And honestly, I get that. If I were to move to a foreign country I would do my best to adapt to the local traditions.
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I do understand that it's not cut and dry, I'm just suggesting that if the underlying rationale for disallowing religious expression in schools is so as not to disrupt learning (gym class, class on holy days), that same rationale does not hold for wearing crosses, stars of david, headscarves, or any other religious ornament. It must be that the underlying rationale is to limit religious expression in public places. It's a potentially legitimate rationale, but a much more controversial one, and I think it's important not to pretend it's about something else.
06/20/09
I've listened to and read many other opinions about this and I still feel the same way. Sorry everyone. Maybe my secular upbringing in the England is to blame. I don't think Americans realize how secular Western Europe is.
06/20/09
Yes. And if you were to move to a Muslim country, you would HAVE TO cover yourself up, whether you are a Muslim or not! Double standards, people.
06/20/09
I agree with you. French and American citizen here. Western Europe is MUCH more secular than America.
I have no idea what Sarko's religion is. And most of my fellow French citizens don't care.
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"Yes. And if you were to move to a Muslim country, you would HAVE TO cover yourself up, whether you are a Muslim or not! Double standards, people."
This is just plain untrue. I'm a secular American (raised Jewish, not that it matters) and I currently reside in Morocco. I've lived in Egypt, and have traveled throughout Palestine and Jordan. All of these countries are predominantly Muslim, and in none of these places did I HAVE TO cover. Furthermore, in all of these countries I've witnessed a broad spectrum of covering, not covering, style of dress, how covering manifests itself, etc. Of course, in more conservative areas I noticed more headscarves and more modest dress in general, but to suggest that women in Muslim nations are denied any sort of choice in how they present themselves is absurd.
"...and I abhor the Muslim belief that women have to cover themselves in public, even if it is only a headscarf. I feel pity for the women who follow those rules."
They probably pity you for being so narrow-minded and categorically dismissing an entire group of women who don't happen to hold the same beliefs as you. I know I do.
06/20/09
"Correct dress : it is important to cover your knees (a calf length skirt or loose trousers) and the tops of your arms (a tee shirt or something with cap sleeves is fine). Obviously no bare midriffs, and no tank or halter tops or shorts. You don't need to cover your head - except from the sun. You can relax this rule a bit at the main tourist sites like Petra, but don't relax it too far. Just remember that wherever you are, the more you show, the more you are going to get looked over. It would be utterly stupid to resent any leers if you are scantily dressed BY LOCAL STANDARDS and remember always that these are not necessarily the same as your own!"
[www.jordanjubilee.com]
I'm not "dismissing" an entire group of women; I'm dismissing ANY religion that requires women to do this. It is their choice to subjugate themselves, that is what I pity them for. In all other respects, I regard people as individuals and take as I find - I'm not passing any other judgments regarding intelligence, personality etc.
06/20/09
Advice, not requirements. You just said that you were comfortable changing your behavior for local standards, and covering yourself in a country where most people cover themselves with more than halter tops isn't necessarily religious, even if it's related to religion. Would you find a travel guide for Brazilian women that advised, not required, that wearing full coverage bikini bottoms was the norm in North America to be oppressive as well?
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Is that anywhere near "the Iraq, such as?"
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Will France be banning nipple clamps, ball gags, and slave collars too? France has every right to prohibit certain types of public dress (as do many religious countries w/o Westerners getting all up in their business & screaming about freedom of expression), but they need to work on that legal argument.
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I don't think it's appropriate to coerce women into showing more (or less) of their bodies than they are willing to show.
If there are concerns about their civil and human rights, the answer should not be imposing some dress code on them. Working with the (I presume multiple) causes of inequality/injustice seems more productive, no?
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haha, i wonder how they came to that revealation. I'm totally envisioning a crowd of boys gathered at the bottom of the staircase
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As if the symbolic value of a burqa is an absolute truth.
06/19/09
That's right, I have a PhD in Sarcasm Studies.
06/19/09
Look, I like your fries and I adore your style of kissing, but wtf is up with you and people's expression of their faith? Chill the fuck out.
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Risperdal sucks... but geodon is the worst.
Lamictal FTW!