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Vogue & The Size Zero Problem

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MilointheMeadow
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
>>We shouldn't have to starve to fit the clothes. The clothes should fit us.<<

Oh, I've been saying this for years. Look, Designers: Make clothes that fit me and I will buy them. I know I'm not the only one because all the clearance racks are full of the extra small sizes.

Hey, AW, I grew up in Minnesota and our homecoming queen was hospitalized for anorexia so don't worry - we have the kind of girls you approve of out here, too. Furthermore, please leave our state alone - you're hurting women and in the immortal words of Jon Stuart - YOU'RE NOT HELPING.
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meritxell: an erotic life
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
Meh. A bunch of people I can't look like obsessing over clothes I can't afford. That's a battle I ain't pickin'.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
That excerpt made me cringe. Do women ever get any rest? Ever? I mean, I know middle age brings invisibility unless you're a bombshell, but pegging your pride to your figure well into your 60s? Uck.
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NoStyleHere
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
Are sizes changing again, like they did in the 1960's? A 1950's size 12 is like today's zero. And I'm finding that over the last year or so I wear a 4. A FOUR? I'm 5'4" and 133 lbs with 37" hips. Isn't that more like an 8? In any case, size zero in any age is nuts.
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sequined
06/16/09

@NoStyleHere: I think right now an 8 is supposed to fit roughly 38" hips. That's what sizing charts seem to say most of the time.
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RStewie
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
That picture mesmerized me. I'm currently trying to drop the 60 or so pounds I gained after getting out of the military (which, surprisingly, only amounted to 2 clothes sizes!!) and that girl's legs!

Even without that 60 lbs, though, I will never. look like that. I'd have to lob off another 60 to even be close.
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RStewie
06/16/09

@RStewie: The point of that comment?

There wasn't one. Except I hate trying to lose weight.
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sequined
06/16/09

@RStewie: Yeah, seriously. I never even tell myself I'm "trying to lose weight"; I just set a fitness-related goal and see if my body adapts as I go along. I find that healthier for me, since the number on the scale is something I've learned I can't let myself focus on.
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Inkymonkey
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
Sheer fucking laziness. Or lack of talent. That's the main, underlying reason why the girls must be so thin, because the designers are lazy or untalented or both.

Watch the episodes of Project Runway (or if you must) the Fashion Show where the designers have to design for GASP real women. Tears. Scowls. Drama. Snobbery. Hysterics. All because they have to work with the challenges of draping cloth over breasts, hips, tummies, and thighs.

Someone once said(I don't remember who) that clothes look best on the hanger.
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philoclea
06/16/09

@Inkymonkey: SO right. A good tailor can make something that fits any body type and looks good. Period.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
06/16/09

@Inkymonkey: Ha - I just mentioned this in another comment. It is so true. Suddenly they've got to learn to sew for a body instead of a hanger (not to body snark the models on the show, but I don't think it's some secret that their bodies are very narrow and therefore adapt easily to whatever shape a designer wants to make, no thought for practicality or flattery needed).
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Ruby_de_la_Booby
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
If I were a "little house," I would like to be a two-story Cape with white washed cedar shingles.
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lilbobbytables
06/16/09

@Ruby_de_la_Booby: I am a Minnesotan, and therefore am a typing single level bungalow.
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Mmmmkay (gellin' and Jezebelin)
06/16/09

@Ruby_de_la_Booby: I'm a California ranch with a large yard.
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swashbuckling
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
How did I miss AW's "little houses" comment? Ugh. I share a birthday with this woman!

Designers should cut to the chase and make Barbie doll clothes.
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Tart of Darkness
06/16/09

@swashbuckling: no go. Barbie has breasts which ruin the line.
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PreposterousHypothesis
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
I've said it before, I'll say it again: in the fashion world, they are about displaying their artwork on their ideal canvases. The ideal, right now, is impossibly thin. It makes their fashion "aspirational." In their view (not one I espouse at ALL) they do not want their fashion to be downgraded to fit onto non-ideal body types. They don't want their precious art displayed in a slummy gallery, so to speak.
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rednrowdy
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
"But let's not get it twisted: This is not about embracing women of all sizes."

it's surprising she didn't add "Heaven ForFEND!" at the end of that statement.

in other news, the sky is blue.
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NefariousNewt
06/16/09

@rednrowdy: Frankly, I'm all for embracing women... hence, all those restraining orders.
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LaFemme
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
This very extreme thinness in the fashion industry is something that has irked me for awhile, and that I really do not completely understand. I think the point about the clothes not even fitting star models really demonstrates how out of control the demands on the girls have become, and what type of image they are looking for.

Models have always, always been thinner than the average woman. I am ok with that. I get the point about not having the body distort the look of the garment. But I think you can accomplish this without telling a 5'10 girl that she would do even better if she could just get as close as possible to 100 lbs. It just seems with some spreads, some models, that they WANT them to not just fit the clothes, but be jarringly thin. Can't we go back to the days of the supers?
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Tchotchke
06/16/09

@LaFemme: I completely agree with you. About two years ago, a friend of mine, who has been 5'11" since she was 12 years old went to see a modeling agency in New York. (This was after years and years of her being approached by agents) She walked into the modeling agency, met with their top agents and was promptly told, "We love your look, you have the right height, but at 110 lbs, you're just a little too large. If you can lose 15, we'd love to sign you." Yep, that's right; almost six feet tall and 95lbs was their ideal. Just thinking about that makes me want to vomit.

Additionally, what bothers me about this anecdote even more is that designers, agents, and other actors in the fashion industry seem to have this aversion to women being sexual creatures. A six foot tall women under 100lbs will not have a menstrual cycle, no hips, no breasts, and will be almost asexual in appearance and body functions. I may not be expressing this thought as eloquently as I would like, but I mean to say that it's the not-so-subtle distaste for normal female bodies that really leaves a foul taste in my mouth.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
06/16/09

@LaFemme: What's 'always' though? Fashion has been around since cave people donned animal pelts (or whatever). The catwalk-heavy fashion industry is a relatively young creature - it's weird when people treat it as eternal and unavoidable. As if the world would be thrown into chaos if it underwent a transformation.

Well... I guess there would be some losses in the billion-dollar diet industry.
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sequined
06/16/09

@Tchotchke: That blows my mind because at three inches shorter than that and a couple dozen pounds heavier, I was about as thin as my body would healthily allow me to be (exercising 3x a day to maintain that size, which was hard to do once I got a job, believe it or not). I guess it's about time to shut the door on all those modeling aspirations.

At least I'll always have myspace and a camera with a self-timer.
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hortense
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
Is there an economic reason behind the smaller sample sizes? Do they not want to make larger sample dresses because of the expense of the extra fabric/jewels/etc? Or is it just a sociocultural drive towards thinner thinner thinner?
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NefariousNewt
06/16/09

@hortense: Less material? Smaller shipping cost? Cheap, unfeeling, uncaring bastards?
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Penny
06/16/09

@hortense: The latter. I really don't think bumping up a size or two (from a 0 to a 4) will impact pricing that much, and it's just samples, they only need to make a piece.

I wonder if they care that something might not be featured because they've sent something too damn small for anyone to fit into.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
06/16/09

@hortense: It's been claimed - in fact, it's an argument behind using very thin models in the first place (with the underlying assumption being that it's also easier to sew for up-and-down bodies - witness the panic in Project Runway when they've got to make outfits for non-sample sized women). But it takes about five seconds of junior detective work to call bull on the whole premise. You can't claim making smaller dresses saves money on material when one of them's got $50,000 of Swarovski crystals sewn into it.
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GatsbysLover
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
I don't like the idea of declaring "war" on ANY size--whether its a size 0 or a size 20. Why is the size of women's clothing (and therefore women's bodies) something to attack and scruntinize?? Can't fashion designers be encouraged to make clothing that actually fits models (or even--gasp--non-models) without declaring war on a size that some women actually are?
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lilbobbytables
06/16/09

@GatsbysLover: No. Just because I am having way too much fun imagining John Galliano and Karl Lagerfeld with sabers.
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lalaland13
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
You're a zero. What's your size, everyone will ask, better find out and be thin for the show. If you don't eat like a mouse, you will be a little house. Get to know it even when you're crying, crying, crying alone. Can you be, be, be thinner?
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shnuguel
06/16/09

@lalaland13: is this a song? if it isn't it should be.
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lalaland13
06/16/09

@shnuguel: It's an awesome Yeah Yeah Yeahs song with altered lyrics. I recommend the original version highly.
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ElleL
06/16/09

In reply to Vogue & The Size Zero Problem
I always thought 6 was the perfect size. I thought this because that's what size Julia Roberts was in Pretty Woman, and I found her so amazingly gorgeous in that movie.

And even then, 6 is tiny, but 6 is much more healthy than 00.
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greengrey
06/16/09

@ElleL: Healthier? For who?

Is a 6 also much more healthy than a size 24?
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dj_chick
06/16/09

@greengrey (raidersofthelostSTAR): I'm gonna guess she's assuming that 6 is healthier for someone of average height and build. And I would assume that someone who is a size 6 would be mildly healthier than someone who is a 24, though there are always exceptions to the rule.
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ElleL
06/16/09

@greengrey (raidersofthelostSTAR): Im not saying it is heathier. I know different sizes mean different things for each person. I am simply stating my perception of what a healthy "number" was when I was young.
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Fizzy77
06/16/09

@ElleL: Also the wakefield twins were a "perfect size 6." (but NOW they are a perfect size 4)
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ElleL
06/16/09

@dj_chick: Exactly.
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sequined
06/16/09

@Fizzy77: In editing the books, it blows my mind that no one was like, "you know, maybe we just shouldn't mention what pants size they wear." Why didn't anyone think that??
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ElleL
06/16/09

@Fizzy77: Ah you're right! Porbably another reason that 6 was so fixated as "perfect" in my head as a child!
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LaComtesse
06/16/09

@ElleL: Sizes are different now. Six now wasn't a six then. Also, size isn't the only indicator of health.
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ElleL
06/16/09

@LaComtesse: I know that, I was stating what my perception of a "perfect size" was growing up from movies and television.
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