Also there's the fact that 17 is not 15. 17 is almost an adult, 15 is still firmly in adolescent territory (and she looks awfully young in the pictures, facially). I think if Lautner was 15 and looked as young as Cyrus did people would indeed be horrified to see him being overtly sexualised.
Which brings us to the fact that a lot of people weren't horrified by an overtly sexualised and very young looking Cyrus, which is because society habitually sexualises adolescent girls and makes them the subjects of the male gaze. So yeah, these are totally different scenarios.
I mean, in your teen mag days, were you taking 15 year old boy band members and printing photos of them naked in bed coyly looking over their bare shoulders at the camera/viewer? #taylorlautnershirtless
From reading all the comments, I must say I am again weirded out by Americans' obsession with "18." Before someone's 18, they're a kid, and afterwards, they're magically transformed into a man/woman! What is this, a bar mitzvah? Just because US law makes someone an "official" man/woman at 18, doesn't mean that you have to FREAK OUT about the fact that you think sexual thoughts about a 17-year-old. I personally don't find this Taylor fellow attractive, but if I did, I wouldn't crucify myself for it.
I just think there's no reason to be completely draconian about this !18! business. It's a law, it's not THE TRUTH, that someone becomes AN INDEPENDENT ADULT at 18. Stop freaking out, people. #taylorlautnershirtless
@HereComesMyBaby: i totally agree that the magical age of 18 is completely arbitrary and gov't imposed. obviously there is a major difference between a young teen and an adult, but for people to have such an obsession with "the day s/he turns 18...legal!" crap is annoying at best, a horrible commentary on how we (as a nation) view sexual maturity at worst. #taylorlautnershirtless
Am I the only one looking at the Miley Cyrus photo and not thinking it is sexual? When I see that photo all I can think is of a young lady who is confident of her own body and not afraid to show it. #taylorlautnershirtless
Another angle to this story that I haven't seen posted yet: Taylor Lautner got famous BECAUSE of his body. Hear me out:
He had a rather small role in "Twilight" and was going to be recast in "New Moon" because the character needed to be big and muscular and the producers were going to recast. The kid and his people freaked out, and he gained 30 pounds of muscle in two months. The first time he got press coverage was when the tabloids were covering his workout regimens.
Conversely, Miley has always been known for a squeaky-clean image, and when she started to go against that, there was a backlash. We're not supposed to think of Hannah Montana in a sexual context. #taylorlautnershirtless
I see a strong confident man, on a beach who doesn't even seem to notice or care that he is being photographed and a pale, skinny girl submitting herself to your viewing pleasure.
These are two very different shots that tell two very different things. #taylorlautnershirtless
What if Emma Watson had appeared stark naked on Broadway at age 17 like her co-star Daniel Radcliffe did? Would that even have been legal? #taylorlautnershirtless
@jfwlucy: he was 17 when that started? how is that even legal? people were basically paying to see him naked, so how is that any different from an underage stripper? #taylorlautnershirtless
@sincbt3: Equus' London run opened on March 7, 2007. Radcliffe turned 18 on Jul 23, 2007. The play opened in NYC on Sep 26, 2008. So he was very definitely under 18 in London and barely (ha!) 19 in NYC.
@jfwlucy: OK, I have no idea about the laws in England but I guess since he was over 18 there's no real issue with the NYC run.
@JuliaStepchild: I don't think that just because its a play makes it non-pornographic, and the whole nudity issue comes from the fact that it's a play about a young man with a very perverse sexual development. #taylorlautnershirtless
@jfwlucy: @sincbt3: the legal age of adulthood in England is 16. (which totally speaks to @HereComesMyBaby's comment above about how the magical age of 18 is completely arbitrary and gov't imposed.)
@Crackers In Bed: 16 as the legal age of adulthood in the UK? Well, sortof. Under-18 year olds still need their parents permission to get married and the voting age here is 18. The government is about to make education mandatory to 18 also. Plus there is a lower minimum wage for those under 18 and different tax-payment responsibilities, as they're presumed to be supported by their famillies. You can have hetero sex legally at 16 though.
Nobody would have been surprised if Aaliyah or Fiona Apple were semi-clothed on the cover of VF. Everybody would have been surprised if Jordin "Promise Ring" Sparks or Brandy Norwood were semi-clothed on the cover of VF.
If you skyrocket to fame on a conservative platform of promise rings and bible readings , why are you surprised that not practicing what you preach gets you knocked off that pedestal? #taylorlautnershirtless
I had Access Hollywood on in the background last night and they said Lautner doesn't want to be in a movie shirtless ever again. My reaction? Noooo. Can't you at least do one once you're legal so that I don't have to feel bad about thinking you're cute? Do it for the old ladies!
But yeah, the double standard sucks. I may find someone like Taylor Lautner or Daniel Radcliffe cute, but I try to wait until they are 18 before I find them hot. The reaction to a shirtless Radcliffe in HP4 (lots of ooooos and ahhhhs in the theater when he got in the tub) just rubbed me the wrong way. #taylorlautnershirtless
@hfree: "I may find someone like Taylor Lautner or Daniel Radcliffe cute, but I try to wait until they are 18 before I find them hot."
Is there really a meaningful difference between those two descriptors? Both mean you think he's quite attractive.
So what, when he's not 18, there's no sexual attraction, you just think he's a handsome young boy, and want to invite him over to your house to bake him some cookies?
Sure, the stereotype is that male fantasy is more overtly sexual (thus statutory rape), while the female fantasy is less strictly physical and instead more romantic and emotional, but either way it's a Mrs. Robinson the-mature-taking-advantage-of-the-young... sort of situation. #taylorlautnershirtless
@hfree: Are you really using the same definition of "cute" for baby bunnies and 17-year-old shirtless Tyler Lautner? I find that hard to believe. #taylorlautnershirtless
I think the difference is that in most cases, it's teen girls swooning about famous teen guys (hence Dodai working at a teen magazine when she was picking the cutest photos). Most of the sexed up (and their photos are usually more sexed up) teen girl idols are presented for older, non-minor, men.
For instance, a Disney girl becomes a (rebellious) "woman" by posing in lingerie on the cover of Maxim/FHM/whatever. How many times do you see underage boys posing with sexyface on the cover of a women's magazine, held up to be the newest, hottest young jailbait? #taylorlautnershirtless
I think it is creepier because the photos [I've seen] of Lautner are candids taken out of context while he is on the job filming, whereas Cyrus' bedsheet shots were their own context. #taylorlautnershirtless
k 'm gng t g hd nd sy smthng blsphms- thnk n npprprt thghts whn lk t Tylr Ltnr. Nthng nghty, r sxl. Bcs d nt fnd hm ttrctv, nt vn lttl bt. thnk h s fnny lkng. nd shpd lk trngl. Tht s ll. #tylrltnrshrtlss</s
One of the things that you're not supposed to do on this site is use the comments section of a post to rag on someone's physical appearance that can't be helped. If a comment veers into that territory, an editor or moderator can "disemvowel" the comment, which takes the vowels away and renders it unreadable. For more:
@daradoodle: Like I said above, I wasn't trying to body snark, just attempting to humorously express an opinion contrary to what everyone else was saying. Clearly I failed at that, and stepped over the line and used inappropriate language, and I'm sorry for that. #taylorlautnershirtless
This is a valid point. I think I would be more creeped out if he was pictured naked with nothing but a bed sheet covering his crotch. As it is, I don't think noticing or remarking upon an adolescent's attractiveness, or even nascent sexiness, is damaging, but it is hard to separate appreciate for attractiveness from predatory thoughts and comments. It is the often predatory nature of the male gaze that is disturbing, not the gaze itself.
With that being said, I am kind of surprised at the "can't wait until he's 18!!" comments I'm reading from Jezebels. I think "countdowns" until legal age, and the accompanying mindset, ARE predatory. I know it's a joke but... still squicks me out a little. #taylorlautnershirtless
@Oleander: I think there's a difference between "I can't wait until he's 18 so I can totally HIT THAT!" and "I can't wait until he's 18 so I can feel a little less like a pervert for finding him attractive" though.
That said, I do feel a little less judgmental about the "Countdown to Emma Watson's 18th Birthday" calendars. Just a little. As in, I can understand the feeling if not the action. #taylorlautnershirtless
@Oleander: "It is the often predatory nature of the male gaze that is disturbing, not the gaze itself."
Exactly. I think since young women are so much more likely to be victimized than young men, showing a young woman like Miley in bedsheets and topless is a lot more damaging than taking candid photos of a young man, who can walk around shirtless with very little fear of being harmed or sexually preyed upon. #taylorlautnershirtless
@RiloKilo: I don't know if that's necessarily the case that young women are more likely to be victimized than young men. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought most of the molestation charges levied against the Catholic church were instances of Catholic priests
molesting young boys not girls.
There's also the fact that twink-looking boys are in highly-prized in gay porn.
So maybe it's just that young men are less likely to be victimized by older women. #taylorlautnershirtless
@pumpkinsoup: Well okay, a five year old boy might be victimized, sure, but a large, muscled 15 or 16 year old young man like Taylor Lautner is much less likely to be sexually assaulted than a 15 year old female like Miley. That's just a fact.
@pumpkinsoup: Less likely to be victimized, or less likely by society to be considered victimized? I feel queasy whenever an adult woman has sex with an underage boy and someone wants to high five the kid. #taylorlautnershirtless
@RiloKilo: Really? Because I'm reading a bare minimum of two articles every single day about teachers having sex with male students, and regardless of whether it's consensual or not, it's predatory and illegal. #taylorlautnershirtless
@sincbt3: Argh, but that's just not my point. My point is, few people are going to go after a kid who looks like Taylor Lautner (large, muscled, etc.) and try to rape him. For girls who look like Miley, that is a scary possibility, always. There's a HUGE, inherent difference there.
@RiloKilo: And to clarify, by "rape," I mean forcing a person, physically, as they try to fight you off. I realize there are other kinds of rape, like statutory, but I'm talking about non-consensual here. #taylorlautnershirtless
Sometimes it's not about physical intimidation. Fleury was a buff kid, he simply wouldn't have been such a successful pro player if he weren't, and he was coerced through a power dynamic to engage in non-consensual activity. Rape, assault, or molestation doesn't have to be about bigger muscles, end of story. #taylorlautnershirtless
@RiloKilo: I don't want to belabor this issue, since others have responded, but I would like to respond to your point.
True, a buff 17-year-old like Taylor Lautner might be less likely to grabbed off the street and raped, however that's not to say teen-aged boys aren't taken advantage of, manipulated and coerced into having sex by adult men and women. Wouldn't that be considered rape? Wouldn't be that be considered part of the double standard we are talking about? Just because you have muscles doesn't mean an adult can't try drug you, ply you with alcohol or sweet talk you into doing something you don't want to do. #taylorlautnershirtless
@Apollonia: I absolutely agree with you. I think the old cliché of the hot teacher deflowering the young virgin boy, thereby turning him into a man, still thrives. #taylorlautnershirtless
Would we feel the same if we thought about it from the homosexual perspective? What about older men leering a wet-shirted Taylor? Does that make it better? Worse?
Personally, i think it's all a bit creepy when we think of kids as sexual objects: man, woman, gay, straight. How can our society be so oddly conservative about some stuff, and so grossly sexual about others? It frustrates me to no end. I guess I second Dodai on this one: welcome to the world. #taylorlautnershirtless
@elysium_kitschen: I think it's the same with older men lusting after younger ones; like it or not, age of consent or not, dude is a minor until he's 18. I live in Portland where our (gay) 40-something mayor had a relationship with a teenager that literally became physical at the teenager's 18th birthday party. The premeditation is what really squicks me out. But I do think, generally speaking, that if Mayor Adams was a 45-year-old straight dude who smooched an 18-year-old on HER 18th birthday, the public in general would be FAR more up in arms. #taylorlautnershirtless
I'd say that the Miley Cyrus pictures are also creepier because of the way she is posed, her hair and make-up, maybe even some of the lighting. She looks very, very young in that picture. His pictures are, from what I've seen, him out and about doing things and he happens to be good looking. The Miley Cryus ones are, for one thing, professionally done, so it seems creepier that the intent behind them isn't just to show her, but how she looks like nude, in bed.
Also, two years in teen world are way different than two years in adult world. #taylorlautnershirtless
@miyamyo: That's the way I feel. The lighting and coloring in her pictures makes her look bruised and combining that with the nakedness and being underage is a bit creepy. #taylorlautnershirtless
Silly me, on reading the headline I thought the article was going to about about the double standard that female teens aren't supposed to have any kind of sexuality while teen boys are allowed to. But instead it's about whether it's wrong to ogle Taylor Lautner. (Which, side note, it most definitely is not. And if I had the chance to get down with a consenting Taylor, I would in a hearbeat, without any ethical [or legal, where I live] qualms whatsoever.) I think that teenagers are sexual beings and that's ok. The focus needs to be on teaching young people about ethics, self-confidence, respectful relationships etc, rather than on policing any expression of sexuality. I reckon even that miley in a sheet pic (which I find quite artistic/beautiful) may be fine... depends on context which I don't have information on. #taylorlautnershirtless
@FrannyG: I think your comment is pretty persuasive, except one thing- teens being sexual beings to each other is not quite the same thing as teens being sexual beings in the eyes of adults. But I think a lot of this has to do with relative power, and experience, so if you're a 24 year old woman, lusting after 17 year old Taylor Lautner, there probably isn't quite the problematic power differential there, and if it's legal, I don't see a huge problem with it. Unless, of course, you're his teacher or therapist, and you follow through on that lust. #taylorlautnershirtless
@GoldenRatioφ (aka -girl11): Yeah, I see what you're saying and I agree. I guess there are kind of two somewhat separate issues that seem to get conflated a bit in these discussions, including my contribution. One is the ethics of adults lusting after/ pursuing teens, and the other is those teens' ability to be themselves as sexual beings without condemnation or puritanical concern. I think it's ok for adults to feel attraction to teens, okay to act on it in *some* circumstances and very not okay in others, and always ok for teenagers to, if it's of their own volition, act/dress/whatever in sexual ways. #taylorlautnershirtless
10/29/09
Which brings us to the fact that a lot of people weren't horrified by an overtly sexualised and very young looking Cyrus, which is because society habitually sexualises adolescent girls and makes them the subjects of the male gaze. So yeah, these are totally different scenarios.
I mean, in your teen mag days, were you taking 15 year old boy band members and printing photos of them naked in bed coyly looking over their bare shoulders at the camera/viewer? #taylorlautnershirtless
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I just think there's no reason to be completely draconian about this !18! business. It's a law, it's not THE TRUTH, that someone becomes AN INDEPENDENT ADULT at 18. Stop freaking out, people. #taylorlautnershirtless
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/sarc #taylorlautnershirtless
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He had a rather small role in "Twilight" and was going to be recast in "New Moon" because the character needed to be big and muscular and the producers were going to recast. The kid and his people freaked out, and he gained 30 pounds of muscle in two months. The first time he got press coverage was when the tabloids were covering his workout regimens.
Conversely, Miley has always been known for a squeaky-clean image, and when she started to go against that, there was a backlash. We're not supposed to think of Hannah Montana in a sexual context. #taylorlautnershirtless
10/29/09
I see a strong confident man, on a beach who doesn't even seem to notice or care that he is being photographed and a pale, skinny girl submitting herself to your viewing pleasure.
These are two very different shots that tell two very different things. #taylorlautnershirtless
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I just can't IMAGINE a Hollywood aspiring female actor doing that. #taylorlautnershirtless
10/29/09
@JuliaStepchild: I don't think that just because its a play makes it non-pornographic, and the whole nudity issue comes from the fact that it's a play about a young man with a very perverse sexual development. #taylorlautnershirtless
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If you skyrocket to fame on a conservative platform of promise rings and bible readings , why are you surprised that not practicing what you preach gets you knocked off that pedestal? #taylorlautnershirtless
10/29/09
But yeah, the double standard sucks. I may find someone like Taylor Lautner or Daniel Radcliffe cute, but I try to wait until they are 18 before I find them hot. The reaction to a shirtless Radcliffe in HP4 (lots of ooooos and ahhhhs in the theater when he got in the tub) just rubbed me the wrong way. #taylorlautnershirtless
10/29/09
Is there really a meaningful difference between those two descriptors? Both mean you think he's quite attractive.
So what, when he's not 18, there's no sexual attraction, you just think he's a handsome young boy, and want to invite him over to your house to bake him some cookies?
Sure, the stereotype is that male fantasy is more overtly sexual (thus statutory rape), while the female fantasy is less strictly physical and instead more romantic and emotional, but either way it's a Mrs. Robinson the-mature-taking-advantage-of-the-young... sort of situation. #taylorlautnershirtless
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For instance, a Disney girl becomes a (rebellious) "woman" by posing in lingerie on the cover of Maxim/FHM/whatever. How many times do you see underage boys posing with sexyface on the cover of a women's magazine, held up to be the newest, hottest young jailbait? #taylorlautnershirtless
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m nt snrkng, jst syng, h nt gd lkng mch. #tylrltnrshrtlss</s
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And just because he's a dude doesn't mean that we can start criticizing his looks. #taylorlautnershirtless
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One of the things that you're not supposed to do on this site is use the comments section of a post to rag on someone's physical appearance that can't be helped. If a comment veers into that territory, an editor or moderator can "disemvowel" the comment, which takes the vowels away and renders it unreadable. For more:
[jezebel.com] #taylorlautnershirtless
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With that being said, I am kind of surprised at the "can't wait until he's 18!!" comments I'm reading from Jezebels. I think "countdowns" until legal age, and the accompanying mindset, ARE predatory. I know it's a joke but... still squicks me out a little. #taylorlautnershirtless
10/29/09
That said, I do feel a little less judgmental about the "Countdown to Emma Watson's 18th Birthday" calendars. Just a little. As in, I can understand the feeling if not the action. #taylorlautnershirtless
10/29/09
Exactly. I think since young women are so much more likely to be victimized than young men, showing a young woman like Miley in bedsheets and topless is a lot more damaging than taking candid photos of a young man, who can walk around shirtless with very little fear of being harmed or sexually preyed upon. #taylorlautnershirtless
10/29/09
molesting young boys not girls.
There's also the fact that twink-looking boys are in highly-prized in gay porn.
So maybe it's just that young men are less likely to be victimized by older women. #taylorlautnershirtless
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[www.cbssports.com]
Sometimes it's not about physical intimidation. Fleury was a buff kid, he simply wouldn't have been such a successful pro player if he weren't, and he was coerced through a power dynamic to engage in non-consensual activity. Rape, assault, or molestation doesn't have to be about bigger muscles, end of story. #taylorlautnershirtless
10/29/09
True, a buff 17-year-old like Taylor Lautner might be less likely to grabbed off the street and raped, however that's not to say teen-aged boys aren't taken advantage of, manipulated and coerced into having sex by adult men and women. Wouldn't that be considered rape? Wouldn't be that be considered part of the double standard we are talking about? Just because you have muscles doesn't mean an adult can't try drug you, ply you with alcohol or sweet talk you into doing something you don't want to do. #taylorlautnershirtless
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Personally, i think it's all a bit creepy when we think of kids as sexual objects: man, woman, gay, straight. How can our society be so oddly conservative about some stuff, and so grossly sexual about others? It frustrates me to no end. I guess I second Dodai on this one: welcome to the world. #taylorlautnershirtless
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Also, two years in teen world are way different than two years in adult world. #taylorlautnershirtless
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