WTF? Birth control pills are taken for a lot more than just birth prevention. Poly-cystic ovary syndrome, horribly heavy and erratic and painful periods, PMDD... seriously, unless you can come up with some other non-potentially-baby-preventative... measure that helps all of those things than STFU! Okay, end rant :)
On another note, I'm a virgin, but I have a feeling that I'm already a harlot bound for hell because I a) own a few condoms and b) think and talk about sex a lot. DON'T YOU KNOW YOU MADEZ A BEBBEH THE SECOND YOU TOOK THAT FREE CONDOM FROM THE STUDENT HEALTH BOOTH, YOU DIRTY WHORE!
I really miss the days when people who were ultra-religious who had problems with other's moral actions took the position of "they'll get what's coming in the end so why waste energy with some meager Earthly punishment." I don't remember anywhere in the Bible it says you're supposed to force your religion down people's throats, whether they agree with you or not. I thought the idea was to tell them about Jesus, but ultimately leave the option to get "saved" or not up to their individual conscience - and let them deal with whatever supernatural consequences came their way, rather than concerning yourself with it.
I think anyone who is against contraception should be required by law to take care of any children born because of the lack of use. Otherwise they need to keep their stinkin' paws of birth control pills.
The basic motivation behind such crazy actions as far as I can tell is this.
These people believe in god. To a larger point they believe in a very specific interpretation of morality. Within this universe of morality: promiscuity = sin, and sin -- punishment. Contraceptives, abortion, anything that negates this, diverts a natural progression of punishment from God, and therefore entrenches a society even more in sin.
Fundamental to this nature of belief is the idea that a nation or geographic area can either fall into our out of the favor of God, such that it becomes their great moral duty to ensure that America continues to be in the grace of God by adhering to a very specific interpretation of morality.
In this worldview then, absent giant moves of chaotic motion, history, or anything. America is the best nation in the world because it is the most moral nation in the world and therefore immoral people represent an existential threat to the moral character of a nation which is linked to the overall prosperity of a nation.
This of course, is the stupidest fucking thing I have ever heard in my life. But in essence I figure this is the logic process because you can hear people talk about the larger moral character of America. and how America is a christian nation and how this is why America has been successful. It's a sort of conflation of ethnic nativism into a religious context. Such that 'Christian' in this context means much more than the religion. It means a very specific interpretation of Christianity, for a very specific type of people, for a very select group of individuals.
@RollRoll: I don't think it's nearly that complicated. These people believe life begins at conception. These people believe that no one has the right, even the mother, to stop that life from continuing. These people vote, and protest, and are politically active based on those moral beliefs. Much like the way people who are pro-choice generally have other political beliefs that are motivated by their own personal moral beliefs (health care, education reform, death penalty, etc). It's not nearly as devious as you seem to be painting it, it's just that we all have different opinions on when life begins, or whether a woman should be able to choose whether that life should continue.
@schweppes: This particular group doesn't just want to get rid of the morning-after pill, they want to get rid of contraception. There is no way that proper use of the birth control pill could end a life.
As I understand, some misinformed individuals want to get rid of birth control because they think it could harm the baby. In fact, taking one pill a day as prescribed for the first few weeks of pregnancy is safe for a fetus. This misunderstanding could be due to any number of factors, from ineffectual high school sex ed to personal unwillingness to research the subject.
Others know that the pill is harmless, but they still want to outlaw contraception because it encourages the immoral act of sex that is not specifically for reproduction.
@schweppes: They say they believe in life. Yeah. Sure. That also explains why all the stuff they do has the real-world effect of increasing abortions and hurting women and children.
You'd think they'd have figured that out by now, but go right ahead and keep blandly touting their talking points for them.
@alwaysapropos: A lot of pro-lifers believe life begins at conception, not at fertilization. One of the ways the pill works (assuming it fails in the first two ways yet somehow manages to kick in at the end) is to make the lining of the uterus so thin that a fertilized egg cannot implant. People who believe that life = sperm + egg see this as an abortifacent effect of the bcp.
I'm not saying they're right, just that there are some people who sincerely believe bcp can end a life. It's not always about sin and punishment.
@alwaysapropos: Actually, these people want to redefine the start of life. The author of this post, and other people, are saying that this could lead to outlawing contraception because birth control does more than just inhibit ovulation - it reduces the uterine lining, making it less likely for an already-fertilized embryo from implanting. That's the connection : there is NOTHING explicit in the proposal that mention contraception.
@Ginmar Rienne: I'm not touting them, I'm just explaining them, because vilifying your opponents irrationally doesn't help your cause. And the reason why this specific proposal would increase the rates of abortion is because abortion is still very legal: but their ultimate end-goal is to make abortion illegal, and there's no evidence that shows that making abortions illegal increases the numbers of abortions.
@RollRoll: So, you think that "christians" as you define them believe that a baby is "punishment" sent from God? Because that's where your line of logic takes me.
In terms of how Christianity fits in with the American political landscape, the Republican party largely exploits the religious for voting purposes; while their larger goal may very well be to aid business and make money, as many believe, they heavily rely on a voting base that sees them as the morally right party. Abortion is a perfect issue for them because it is so polarizing to devout Christians.
Third, I think your cultural reference to WASPS may be misplaced and that you are connecting dots that don't exist.
@IvyArbor: "So, you think that "christians" as you define them believe that a baby is "punishment" sent from God? Because that's where your line of logic takes me."
Well yeah. I do think they think of it as punishment. At least when their answer to the question "Well how is she going to take care of the baby?" is, "well she shouldn't have been having sex to begin with."
@Ultraprison!: No, the amendment itself says NOTHING about contraception, per se, oral or not. It just talks about the definition of when protectable life begins which we are interpreting to cover contraception that interferes with the lining of the uterus (which covers the pill and, yes, my favorite, the ring).
Also, why don't these groups take all this energy and focus it on helping the babies they love so much that are ALREADY ALIVE?
Why worry about a pregnancy someone doesn't want? There are millions of children out there that need help.
I don't understand why this terrifying need to protect a child ends once the child is born.
I honestly cannot imagine living somewhere where abortion AND contraceptives were illegal. I take medicine right now that seriously fucks up any unborn babies (I'm pretty sure I read it makes them grow without a brain or something like that).
Also, this medicine messes with my birth control, making it not work as well.
So, what would I do in my case then? If I became pregnant, knowing from the very begining that I had to carry a baby to term that is most likely deformed and will probably die once born?
Oh shit, nevermind, I answered my own question--I'm a whore and it's my fault because I had sex so I just gotta roll with dem punches.
@youbehim: Whatever medicine you are taking that would grow a baby without a brain should be outlawed, just in case it results in growing a baby without a brain. Also, YOU should be outlawed for deciding you have the right to take medicine that hasn't been pre-approved by whackos. What are you thinking, young lady? PLEASE, start thinking of the children!!
So the basis for banning the pill is that is a 'method that kill(s) a child'? Since we all know that isn't true, and it just prevents conception in the first place, does that mean that condoms will be banned as well? After all, they block the sperm and prevent conception. Jackasses.
@notwhoyouthoughtiwas: Oh, you're not going far enough. Wouldn't any month a woman ISN'T pregnant be wasting a precious egg cell? So abstaining would be considered killing a child too. So unless you're pregnant whenever possible.... your uterus is like a mining accident.
@Bunsen Honeydew: Ah, I see my error now. I had allowed a bit of common sense and logic to stifle me. Well, no more. We can only hope that someone makes this argument and people will realize how ridiculous this law is.
From the article: "There are some (birth control) methods that kill a child," said Pat McEwan, who is leading the Personhood Florida group.
It was this thinking that left Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar with 69847 children. Just sayin. Imagine this multiplied by .... what's Florida's current population. Yeah.
@JerseyGrrrl: Well clearly, my birth control isn't working properly, then. I've been using it faithfully for years, and yet the neighbor children are still upstairs, alive and annoying as ever.
Why is the focus always on the woman's body? If these groups are so worried about "life," why don't they create massive protest about men wasting their sperm? Isn't every sperm sacred? Or at least every load of them? Shouldn't men be taught to take responsibility (since women are clearly so weak) and keep it in their pants?
Seriously? What's next? A proposed ban on vaginas? Is that what we're coming to? Am I using too many question marks?
Also: Forget these people. Because just when you think they can't get any more ridiculous, another group will crop up, and so on and so on. The madness (cloaked in that convenient excuse- Religion) will never end.
Also: Who, pray tell, would get to take care of all the unwanted babies? Or would it come down to the excuse in this argument that I personally hate the most: "God will provide!" O, RLY?? God's gonna pay the bills? He's gonna buy loads of diapers and pay for daycare and clothing and food and a home? NO. NO, ACTUALLY. THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS. I hate that shit, man. I really do. I'm stopping now because I get so angry when this comes up that it's unhealthy.
so wait, they want to grant legal rights to an embryo as the moment of fertilization (ie. "personhood) even though there is no medical way to determine when it occurs? i'm sure THAT will be enforceable!
also, are they then going to charge a woman with murder or negligent homicide if she miscarries? ugh, i shouldn't give them idea...
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These people believe in god. To a larger point they believe in a very specific interpretation of morality. Within this universe of morality: promiscuity = sin, and sin -- punishment. Contraceptives, abortion, anything that negates this, diverts a natural progression of punishment from God, and therefore entrenches a society even more in sin.
Fundamental to this nature of belief is the idea that a nation or geographic area can either fall into our out of the favor of God, such that it becomes their great moral duty to ensure that America continues to be in the grace of God by adhering to a very specific interpretation of morality.
In this worldview then, absent giant moves of chaotic motion, history, or anything. America is the best nation in the world because it is the most moral nation in the world and therefore immoral people represent an existential threat to the moral character of a nation which is linked to the overall prosperity of a nation.
This of course, is the stupidest fucking thing I have ever heard in my life. But in essence I figure this is the logic process because you can hear people talk about the larger moral character of America. and how America is a christian nation and how this is why America has been successful. It's a sort of conflation of ethnic nativism into a religious context. Such that 'Christian' in this context means much more than the religion. It means a very specific interpretation of Christianity, for a very specific type of people, for a very select group of individuals.
WASPS.
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As I understand, some misinformed individuals want to get rid of birth control because they think it could harm the baby. In fact, taking one pill a day as prescribed for the first few weeks of pregnancy is safe for a fetus. This misunderstanding could be due to any number of factors, from ineffectual high school sex ed to personal unwillingness to research the subject.
Others know that the pill is harmless, but they still want to outlaw contraception because it encourages the immoral act of sex that is not specifically for reproduction.
09/14/09
You'd think they'd have figured that out by now, but go right ahead and keep blandly touting their talking points for them.
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I'm not saying they're right, just that there are some people who sincerely believe bcp can end a life. It's not always about sin and punishment.
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In terms of how Christianity fits in with the American political landscape, the Republican party largely exploits the religious for voting purposes; while their larger goal may very well be to aid business and make money, as many believe, they heavily rely on a voting base that sees them as the morally right party. Abortion is a perfect issue for them because it is so polarizing to devout Christians.
Third, I think your cultural reference to WASPS may be misplaced and that you are connecting dots that don't exist.
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Well yeah. I do think they think of it as punishment. At least when their answer to the question "Well how is she going to take care of the baby?" is, "well she shouldn't have been having sex to begin with."
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(Srsly though government, hands off my Nuvaring)
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Why worry about a pregnancy someone doesn't want? There are millions of children out there that need help.
I don't understand why this terrifying need to protect a child ends once the child is born.
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Also, this medicine messes with my birth control, making it not work as well.
So, what would I do in my case then? If I became pregnant, knowing from the very begining that I had to carry a baby to term that is most likely deformed and will probably die once born?
Oh shit, nevermind, I answered my own question--I'm a whore and it's my fault because I had sex so I just gotta roll with dem punches.
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It was this thinking that left Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar with 69847 children. Just sayin. Imagine this multiplied by .... what's Florida's current population. Yeah.
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Also: Forget these people. Because just when you think they can't get any more ridiculous, another group will crop up, and so on and so on. The madness (cloaked in that convenient excuse- Religion) will never end.
Also: Who, pray tell, would get to take care of all the unwanted babies? Or would it come down to the excuse in this argument that I personally hate the most: "God will provide!" O, RLY?? God's gonna pay the bills? He's gonna buy loads of diapers and pay for daycare and clothing and food and a home? NO. NO, ACTUALLY. THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS. I hate that shit, man. I really do. I'm stopping now because I get so angry when this comes up that it's unhealthy.
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also, are they then going to charge a woman with murder or negligent homicide if she miscarries? ugh, i shouldn't give them idea...
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