Jezebel 
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New York, 10:21 PM
Tue Nov 24
62 posts in the last 24 hours
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Sigh.
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3500 calories is a pound, no matter how you slice it, just don't eat as much
vs.
i eat (x) per day and work out (x) per day and i'm overweight so then what???
i hate it because it means that people are cars and weight exists in a vacuum. bring up correlations with poverty, and the argument is well, you can buy (x) food for (x) dollars and that's cheaper than mcdonalds. mention emotional correlates of eating and its well, sorry for you, but you're still eating over 2000 calories a day and i've had trauma and i deal with it.
on these threads, it's easy to talk about moderation and balance and if it were as easy as it is for you, you don't think everyone would be into it? an easy example is ADHD - the dopamine in your system is low and food cravings can be unbelievable. or what if when you were little, whenever you were sad mom didn't know how to talk to you and the only way to quiet the emotions was food? or what if, god forbid, you have a busy, active life and you get pleasure from a mcchicken?
i hate the moral garbage about your taxpayers money paying for fat people's health. do we yell at people who hate math to take math so they can become engineers and improve society? do we freak out when people do high level athletics and then we have to pay for their injuries? or when people don't have time to go to the family doc and the blood in their stool is colon cancer and you have to pay for chemo and not just surgery?
gah.
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I honestly can't think of any physical activity that I have EVER found "fun". I hate hiking, I hate swimming, I hate getting on a bike. I want to like these things. If I had fun at them, maybe I wouldn't be so fucking fat.
But I am fucking fat, and I hate being fucking fat, and being fucking fat makes exercise even less fun, so I don't do it at all.
World: we know we're fat. We don't need you staring. We don't need your comments. We don't need your snickers. And you know what? Even if we AREN'T healthy - and some fat people are - we STILL deserve respect. That's basic human decency.
07/31/09
/Buddhist ideals
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What if both "sides" accepted that there is a middle ground. Because as it stands, we can't talk about any of it without a shitstorm ensuing. (peers downthread) It's like you can only pick black or white, and to wander into the gray territory puts you smack-dab back into the HATERS! camp.
But somewhere, there is a middle ground, right? I mean, most of us agree that type 2 diabetes isn't cool for anyone to get because of their diet, much less kids. (It's called type 2 because type 1 - aka Juvenile Onset Diabetes was pretty much unseen in older youth/young people, usually showing up in persons over 40 - source is the CDC.)
I'm pretty sure we can also agree that you can be "overweight" (whatever that is, these days) and be healthy.
But for either side to take an either/or-neithor/nor stance isn't helping anyone.
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It's absolutely okay to say, we should make access to healthy foods and exercise easier for everyone, and lower the risks of diabetes and heart disease. And that if you personally are having health problems related to weight, there are probably steps that can be taken to reduce them.
Unfortunately, a lot of people approach this issue with a "thin is healthy" mentality because it's so much simpler than realized that it's individual. It's why the diet industry is so successful, but ultimately harmful and ineffective.
07/31/09
What exactly do you think we should be doing that Fat Acceptance types are preventing? Could you accept it if we wiped out Type II diabetes and increased average activity but nobody got that much thinner?
Collective action is needed: we deserve better access to quality food, the time to make it, and the ability to shop for it without being trapped in a car, no matter what our race and class. We deserve full access to low-cost single-payer health care. I am on-board with all of those things. But I don't care if obesity rates do not decrease significantly because of them. I want less type II diabetes, but I don't think weight loss is going to lead to less type II diabetes or heart disease. I think more exercise would make us all healthier, but I don't expect the world to lose twenty pounds each when we reached the promised land and walk, bike, and take the bus 80% of the time in mixed-use walkable urban developments.
I am okay with that. Are the reasonable compromisers okay with that?
07/31/09
ETA: Interesting to note that you automatically assumed I was on the "diet culture" side. Why?
07/31/09
My body is not yours to comment upon. Period. I'll give you the exact same respect. Extend to my family, thanks.
Same goes for:
My choice to go on or off of Atkins, whether you think I'm fat or not, or it's healthy or not.
My choice to eat nachos at a ballgame. (And hot dogs. And beer. And everything else.)
Here it gets tricky. By and large, I really don't care about you, much. In an abstract way, yes, but the general "you"... yeah, I've got my own problems, which include my own health, budget, family. I'm a nice woman, but I'm at a breaking point for being mind-fucked everytime someone gets a bee in their bonnet and wants me to UNDERSTAND where they're coming from.
The FA movement and ED-culture both fall into this category - please quit acting as if my right to exist depends entirely upon understanding your right to be accepted as a fat or Healthy with a capital H. Because not only do I accept you as you are, I just... don't care all that much. That isn't said in a bitchy way, apathy would be closer to it.
I'm not saying any of this in a don't ask/don't tell kind of way, either - I'm just saying... please quit yelling at the world and say thank you, excuse me, and pardon me a little more.
Then we can probably just, yk, talk about issues that affect us all. Like healthcare, or access to affordable healthy foods, or access to a school lunch program that doesn't put our kids at risk for type 2 diabetes by the time they're 10.
07/31/09
That said, I appreciate the rule that airlines have passed on having obese people buy 2 tickets. It's better for everyone if people can fit into their seats comfortably.
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Airplanes are uncomfortable for almost everyone. The rule that obese people must buy two tickets seems unnecessarily discriminatory when people of all shapes and sizes routinely invade everyone else's space.
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I've sat next to extremely tall people who spread their legs all the way into my space- why shouldn't they have to get two seats? What about people who take the arm rest and cross over into your space with their elbows? Should they pay for 1/4 of your seat? I just don't understand why obese people are singled out.
07/31/09
And NellMood, I got into a fight last year with a guy because he kept crowding my space -- I was using half of my seat, and he was using the other half (not because he was large but because he was a man and needs to air his balls or sth). It took me 5 hours to muster up the courage to ask him nicely to keep his arms and legs to himself. And then of course he started to yell at ME.
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In fairness to her, her mother was obese for 40 years, never did anything but complain about it, and died from medical issues that her doctor said were a direct result of obesity. Her sister seems to be going the same way. So I do understand that those situations are horribly frustrating for her.
But she just doesn't believe fat or obesity can be caused by anything other than overeating. I told her you can't know how healthy someone is by looking at them, but she claims all fat people are horribly unhealthy. I said fine, why do you care? Because "we're paying for it", which just lead to a whole other argument about universal health care (we're Canadian).
But it was just for frustrating and hurtful to me. I had a friend in high school who ran, danced, and was on a strict diet planned out by her doctor, and I used to find her crying because she didn't know why she was still so fat. I told this to my mother, in an attempt to argue that no, it's not "as simple as burning more than you take in". Her response? "Maybe she ate healthy around you, but at home she was stuffing her face with doughnuts while complaining about being fat."
This came out much longer than intended...sorry! But I just don't understand why some people care so much about what other people look like. I hate going for a drive with my mom and hearing her bully every fat person she sees, even if it isn't to their face...
07/31/09
The other is that, unlike a lot of other forms of discrimination, because this one is viewed as a "choice" (unlike being born black or a woman etc) people feel they have permission to discriminate and harangue. Because this is something they believe the person can/should change, or that it's an indicator of character, will power, gluttony, etc. It isn't, obviously, but people really like to judge others because it usually makes them feel superior.
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Is being obese a choice? I don't know, but I suspect most obese people would choose another body type if the whole choosing thing was really a viable option. This discussion probably leads back to the whole nature vs. nurture line of inquiry.
07/31/09
Are you really making an analogy between being obese and violence?
It's kind of amazing to me that you would question whether someone has a "right" to take up space. I mean, what are you going to do? Pass a law where people can't get beyond a certain size, and if they do, they mus immediately cease to exist?
07/31/09
I know it sucks when someone spills into your seat, but the problem really isn't with the person next to you, it's with the tiny airline seats!
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But in this case, it's a matter of possibly effecting your comfort level in an already uncomfortable space. That's not the same as infringing on, say, any of your actual rights as a person. Sure, I don't like being crowded on a plane or subway...but that happens regardless of anyone's size.
Meanwhile, fat discrimination limits people's life choices like getting work or being promoted, and has led to all kinds of other issues that don't help anything. To me, that's way more serious than whether I'm comfortable in an airline seat.
07/31/09
Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater and swinging your fists at someone's face is action. Being obese is a state. As soon as we start taking away the rights of citizens to exist in a natural state (and yes, I do consider obesity to be natural) than what is to stop us from denying people the right to be blonde, or tall or ....
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While I'm very lucky to have skinny genes, I am unlucky enough to have the dreaded acne gene. Acne isn't a choice for me (or anyone, lord knows) but there are things that I could do (not wash my face for days, sleep in heavy makeup) that would cause my acne to get significantly worse.
I do not, however, think that society needs to grant anyone the "right" to be fat, alaskanbrownbear. An obese person should not be forced to buy two tickets anywhere, just like society doesn't force me to put a paper bag on my head during a nasty hormonal breakout... it's just how it goes.
07/31/09
If I were several hundred pounds, did nothing but sit on the couch all day like a caricature of what people think fat people do, and I only moved to hooveround to the kitchen to get more over processed junk food, then so what? Why shouldn't I? If it is my body, then it is my choice, and no one else should shame me for the way I live my life.
Should the government and companies find more ways to make a healthy lifestyle more attainable? Absolutely. Should individuals be shamed for their bodies? Of course not.
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Wait, that means that me hanging out at the mall, chasing down all the skinny girls and shoving Big Macs down their throats is bad?
Now what am I supposed to do with all these Big Macs!
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It's when the twain meet that gives me pause.
Travelling on a trans-Atlantic flight in coach class with a very very heavy man sitting next to me, and taking up a portion of my own seat was uncomfortable at first and then by hour 7 I was angry.
I don't agree that obese people should have to pay for two seats because that's discrimination, but just accepting that you're going to be cramped for many hours is not fair to anyone either.
07/31/09
That's really the airline's fault though. I am very petite, so am comfortable in airline seats. My boyfriend, who is average weight and tall, finds flying to be agony. They're just not made for normal people, because the airline wants to make a profit by fitting as many people on the plane as possible.
07/31/09
My mom and I are both average-sized women, and we fit quite comfortably in our seats (She was actually using part of mine thanks to the overweight man next to her).
I feel for people with long legs, but not for people who can make themselves/others around them more comfortably by buying two seats.
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For example, we don't tell somebody who is paraplegic as a result of their own drunk driving that they can't use handicapped parking spots.
I know. Obesity isn't usually considered a disability because it usually isn't a permanent condition like paralysis. Still a person who is temporarily disabled can apply for a temporary disabled placard.
I don't see why similar accommodations can't be made for very large people. Maybe it's the economics of it all, if there are more obese people that require two seats than disabled people. (I think that is the case, but I'd have to look it up to be sure.) But that is pretty cold, IMO.
We have a lot of overweight in this country, that's just a fact we have to deal with now. We aren't going to instantly fix the problem by making people pay for two seats, or shaming them in public. Any fixes are going to have to involve better healthcare and nutrition education...and it is going to take time.
In the meantime? Compassion, people. Compassion.
07/31/09
When we buy plane tickets, we pay X for Y amount of space. Is it cheap for someone who will use more than Y to need to pay 2Y? No. But it's not fair for anyone else to pay full price and get half a seat because their neighbor is pressing them up against the window.
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Perhaps we should be pushing for larger seats for obese people?
Also, what is your solution? And haven't you been in the position of having to "give" part of your seat to a larger person? I'm a pretty friendly chick, really, but I do have my limits, and I just happen to fucking hate sharing skin-on-skin time with strangers.
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And I could turn it around and ask where the fairness in that is, but what's the point?
In the end, it's two people suffering.
07/31/09
At no point do passengers agree before they board an airplane, that they will not infringe or otherwise impose on their fellow passengers. If this were the case no one with heavy perfume, a loud voice, or a child would be able to fly.
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Yes, the extremely young are not required to pay for a seat not because they are not using the seat, but because they are not inccuring any of the additional costs associated with passage (i.e. they do not have luggage, do not need to be scanned at security, do not require a ticket, ect.) They also don't have the safety devices that a given to paying passengers. Taking a lap child is more akin to an extra piece of baggage.
07/31/09
When you pay for 1st class you are getting an upgraded passage. This does include larger seats, but it also includes better food, faster check-in and a more attentive staff (among other things)
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I'm damaging someone because I am making them uncomfortable? I'm sorry but legally that doesn't hold water. I can't sue for damages because you made me feel uncomfortable.
Bottom line is that airlines do not currently run on the "you purchase space" system. If they did than a 100lb woman would pay less than a 225lb linebacker and a 6 year old would pay less than a 40 year old. You can't hold me to a rule that no one else is being held too.
07/31/09
And if someone does not fit into that seat, another seat may be purchased.
I'm not being shitty here, I'm just saying - no matter how many times you try to put it differently, that's how it goes. It's why lap babies aren't charged - because they are not taking up a seat. If you want to bring that same baby in a car seat, you must purchase an airline seat in which to place it.
What you are arguing is comfort - the linebacker is less comfortable in that seat than a toddler, which is a bummer, but it doesn't change how the seat was sold.
eta: :::passes stick back to Vive::: Commence with poking. (We both know better, why are we here again?)
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If airlines truly charged for space (as you claim they do) than customers would know, when they bought the ticket, exactly how many square feet their dollar bought and how many square feet they were entitled to take up. A 6 year old would purchase less square feet than a 40 year old. Which is fine, if that's the way they are going to do it. This is not, however, the way airlines are currently run.
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I am a lot of things but I do not fabricate ideas simply because they bolster my opinion. I truly believe that one pays for passage on an airplane. If you are going to attempt to disprove my point at least respond to the allegations instead of accusing me of blatant stupidity.
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"You got your hair cut in layers...why?"
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