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Twilight Author's Reign Continues

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Diziet_Sma
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
You know, they may be trash (I don't know, haven't read them) but, I'm gonna use the Harry Potter Defense - at least people are reading.

Also, ain't it nice to see a woman outselling the men (again) ?
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Edited by Diziet_Sma at 07/09/09 2:53 PM Diziet_Sma was starred Diziet_Sma was unstarred

Jen82
07/09/09

@Diziet_Sma: I actually really enjoyed both the Twilight and Harry Potter series but I don't think you can ever put Harry into the same category as Twilight at all. Like, Harry is well written, wildly creative, with great characters, excellent plot twists and you could even say feminist literature (seriously, Hermione is like the Lisa Simpson of the book world AND girls are always written as equals to boy characters) while Twilight is nothing more than escapist crack laced candy. Seriously, Harry teaches readers about being loyal, brave and honest while Twilight tells you to give up everything for a man.
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Diziet_Sma
07/09/09

@Jen82: I'm sure you're right. I couldn't get beyond the first couple of pages of the first Harry Potter, though; I'm a His Dark Materials girl.
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Jen82
07/10/09

@Diziet_Sma: Oh god, the first two HP books are really hard to get through because they are clearly children's books... The third one becomes more tolerable and then at the fourth it really picks up. I am late to the HP party because I refused to read it for a long time because I hated the first two so much, and I am currently reading the 7th one and was so enthralled on the way to work this am I missed my subway stop!
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kim_c_hammer
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
Does anyone else have a problem with the fact that the Bella/Edward relationship is borderline abusive? The stalking, taking her car battery out so she can't see her "friends," the emotional manipulation...this is not the kind of thing that I'd want my daughter to be looking for in a relationship. It's a good place to start a dialogue about teenage relationships, though. Almost a "what not to do."
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JemimaPuddleduck wants MOAR Spock
07/09/09

@kim_c_hammer: YES!

Honestly, the people who think it's romantic are probably the same ones who think that Catherine And Heathcliff had the best relationship in the world.
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Francie Nolan
07/09/09

@kim_c_hammer: Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! And it's passed off as romantic! I've linked this review in this thread before, but here it is again for those curious: http://www.active-voice.net/2008/05/23/twilight/
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cate3710
07/09/09

@kim_c_hammer: Based on that summary of behavior, there is no "borderline" to that abuse.
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kim_c_hammer
07/09/09

@Francie Nolan: Thanks for the link. I'm a teen librarian, and have often thought of hosting a program at the library for girls, focusing on relationships, using Bella and Edward as examples (just because it's the latest thing that these teens are into), and hopefully use Twilight as a way to start a dialogue into healthly relationships, self-esteem, and other issues that would lead girls down a path of thinking it's okay for their boyfriends to have complete and total control over their lives.

Their relationship really bothers me, so much so that I had to stop reading the series.
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kim_c_hammer
07/09/09

@cate3710: Very true. I guess I've been using the term "borderline" as a form of self-censorship and self-imposed restraint, because otherwise I fly off the handle when talking to people about the book and then they look at me strangely, like I'm reading way too into things.
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Edited by kim_c_hammer at 07/09/09 2:46 PM kim_c_hammer was starred kim_c_hammer was unstarred

Erda
07/09/09

@kim_c_hammer: I'm not certain that girls who like these books would necessarily tolerate Edward-like behavior in real-life boyfriends though. We put up with a lot in literature and movies that we wouldn't in our own lives: people who find Lolita erotic who are appalled by pedophilia, parents who find Romeo and Juliet romantic who think it's unhealthy for a teen to prioritize love over family, etc. I know a lot of girls who love the Twilight books - some even obsessed - who have demonstrated through their behavior or comments that if they had a real boyfriend like Edward they'd be running madly in the opposite direction.

However, when you're dealing with middle & high school girls who are still experimenting with romance and haven't yet developed standards, it's probably true that they would have difficulty differentiating between fantasy and reality. So it is good that you're getting a dialogue going about how the sort of relationship demonstrated between Bella/Edward is not one you truly want, and getting them to read between the lines to see how they would be limited by an Edward-like boyfriend who wants to control everything they do, how throwing away college and career to get married at 18 isn't a good idea, etc.

Get guys involved too - lest they think emulating Edward is a good way to get girls to like them.
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Edited by Erda at 07/09/09 3:03 PM Erda was starred Erda was unstarred

lalaland13
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
I understand why people read books for brain candy. You don't always have to read Dickens (and I can't stand Dickens, but anyway). But my thing is, if I want brain candy, I want there to be sex. Not just longing and repression. I got enough of that in my teen years, thanks. So yes, bring on the smut.
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LAmonkeygirl
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
On a similar note, I can only hope that, when my books are released, TRUE BLOOD is on hiatus. As soon as that series airs, the whole best seller list becomes inundated with Sookie Stackhouse books with nary a place for lesser mortals.

Oh, and Twilight makes me cry blood and lose control of my bowels.
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AthertonMerriweather
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
It's just like The Baby-Sitters Club. I read that and turned into a babysitter! That was some scary shit!
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Edited by AthertonMerriweather at 07/09/09 1:46 PM

Yahtzii
07/09/09

@AthertonMerriweather: You're lucky. I read a Sweet Valley High book and my ex-classmate tried to steal my face.
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thesciencegirl wields the truth like a mighty axe.
07/09/09

@Yahtzii: But did you become a perfect size 6?
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anibundel
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
Talented Writers Everywhere Gnash Teeth, Weep.

Obviously they never understood the power of The Sparkly.
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Edited by anibundel at 07/09/09 1:43 PM anibundel was starred anibundel was unstarred

LadyFabulous
07/09/09

@anibundel: Which is why my next book is going to be about sparkles. That's it. Just sparkles.
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stoprobbers
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
I was watching "Thriller" (the video) (bear with me, please, I have a point) with the boy yesterday and we were reminiscing about when network TV used to play it ever Halloween, the long version of the video, as a short film between the long scary movies they would play. And we were talking about zombies, and how the zombies in "Thriller" are gross, and scary, and creepy, and intimidating, even when they're participating in choreography. We were like, "Remember when zombie were just scary, when they didn't have to have some sort of scientific explanation, when they were slow and unstoppable and attacked you at the mall? Why can't we have those days back again?

So: Remember when vampires were scary? Remember when they were soulless, evil killers with no conscience and no morals and even took real pleasure in preying on the self-absorbed, the rich, the pompous, the oblivious? Remember when you could stop them with crosses and they were burned by sunlight and holy water? Remember when they were scary, and unstoppable, and violent, and turned into bats so they could fly into your room and perch on the side of your bed waiting to strike? Why can't we have those days back again?
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Edited by stoprobbers at 07/09/09 1:43 PM stoprobbers was starred stoprobbers was unstarred

Bookwrm
07/09/09

@stoprobbers: We can't have those days back because, nowadays, nothing is more exciting to a tween than the thought of a forbidden romance, particularly when the bad boy in town happens to be a non-human. What else would freak parents out other than something they grew up thinking of as bad?
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Francie Nolan
07/09/09

@stoprobbers: Those are so last century. Today's modern vampire sparkles and drives a Volvo. Zombies have been hitting the track and can now run at human speed, maybe faster. It's all about self-improvement.
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Ailanthus-altissima
07/09/09

@Francie Nolan: To be fair on the Zombies - I am OK with fast zombies, provided that they are still gross, creeping and terrifying. Zombies in track suits, though, that's another thing all together.
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sequined
07/09/09

@stoprobbers: Actually! Time for polite disagreement: I was reading a nerdy book about symbolism in novels recently and basically vampires have always (or almost always--don't want to over-state things) been symbolic of sex and sexuality and the conflict between innocence and experience etc. So in the Twilight books, vampires are like the easiest way for her to talk about sex all the time without letting her characters do it before marriage.
And that's not so unusual in literature throughout time, evidently. Though I could totally get on board with watching some cheesy old vampire movies where they're soulless and evil.

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stoprobbers
07/09/09

@sequined: I didn't mean to imply that the soulless evil vampires weren't all about sex and sexuality! They always have been, that book was totally right. Have you seen Interview With The Vampire? Those vampires were all kinds of sexy.. and all kinds of scary, too.

And none of them SPARKLED.
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Flackette Goes Retro
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
Clearly the reason so many books are sold is that every reader buys two - one to read and one to masturbate with.
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counterclockwise's using her promoting-power for good
07/09/09

@Flackette Goes Retro: A Twilight reader masturbating?! But Isabella and Edward would NEVER do that!
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barmishmar
07/09/09

@counterclockwise: I think maybe they would, although it would be described in a very non-graphic way, and they would feel really bad about it.
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alouette
07/09/09

@counterclockwise: They just use it to practice their girlish fan screams.
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TheGintheCity
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
It depresses me to no end that (according to USA Today), the Twilight series made up something like 16% of all books sold in 2008. I can only hope those readers, while shopping, might have bought other books, thus floating the boat of the whole industry (in the way that Harry Potter releases were supposed to have done).
Friends have liked these, but I just can't bring myself to read them.
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portia_sue
07/09/09

@TheGintheCity: I worked at a Borders when Harry Potter first came out, and it definitely did raise overall sales for us. It was like a whole group of people who never set foot in a bookstore were coming in, and discovered that hey! books are cool.

It didn't last.
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TheGintheCity
07/09/09

@portia_sue: I have high hopes for some boat-floating when the new Dan Brown comes out in September.
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Everything MidnightBikeRide does is a balloon.
07/09/09

@portia_sue: I was working in a B&N the the day the last one came out and whatever it may have done for readership or sales... f that shit, man. That was the worst work day ever.
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Ailanthus-altissima
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
Here's the thing with vampires. They're supposed to be tempting and seductive. They're not supposed to shill for abstinence. This whole series is based on a web of lies. A web of fiction-lies.
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Francie Nolan
07/09/09

@Ailanthus-altissima: But Edward is supposed to be tempting and seductive and dangerous. That's why he and Bella can't be together, thus the abstinence message.

Hasn't vampire fiction been about forbidden sexuality for ages? I'm seriously asking; I haven't read much of it.
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Ailanthus-altissima
07/09/09

@Francie Nolan: Well, there was always the undercurrent of vampires stealing purity and innocence, but vampires themselves were supposed to be dangerous, lustful beings born (metaphorically) from succubi and the like. I haven't read Twilight, but from everything I've read about Twilight, this fearsome, near-unstoppable vampire ideal is not present in the books.
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Francie Nolan
07/09/09

@Ailanthus-altissima: Trust me, it is. Edward constantly reminds Bella that he could kill her easily, even accidentally. Here's a pretty good review: http://www.active-voice.net/2008/05/23/twilight/

Thanks for clarifying the lust thing. Twilight definitely fails on that front. It sounds like what you're saying is that vampires prey on innocence, implying sexual predation. In Twilight, this is turned into a good thing because Edward is too morally upright to ever do such a thing to Bella. He won't bite her (ahem, penetration) until after they are married. (To be honest, that part was never clear to me.)
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Ailanthus-altissima
07/09/09

@Francie Nolan: The fact that Edward wouldn't bite her until after they are married is exactly what makes him such a namby-pamby washed out vampire. An old school vampire would just take and it'd be incumbent on the prey to either fall victim or to use stakes/Holy Water/etc to extricate themselves. Morally upright shouldn't describe vampires (yes, I am the Vampire Police, why do you ask?).

Thank you for the link!
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mfnher
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
Can someone explain the whole glitter thing to me? I don't read Twilight, but I always hear glitter and sparkly mentioned whenever the books/movies are discussed.
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Edited by mfnher at 07/09/09 1:40 PM mfnher was starred mfnher was unstarred

lilbobbytables
07/09/09

@mfnher: In the Meyerverse, vampires sparkle in the sun. Instead of, you know, bursting into flame.
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mfnher
07/09/09

@lilbobbytables is a la-di-da feminist: And now I'm definitely set on never ever reading it. Thanks!
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anibundel
07/09/09

@mfnher: It's not just that the vampyres sparkle in the sun--it's that Meyer is a terrible writer who has yet to meet a thesaurus (perhaps the "saurus" part makes her think they are related to dinosaurs, and therefore only there to test our faith?) So she overuses certain words. The word "sparkly" feels like it appears on every page. Also overused? The word "perfect." My psychiatrist would have a field day...
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sequined
07/09/09

@lilbobbytables is a la-di-da feminist: So in the Meyerverse, what, exactly, is the down-side of being a vampire?
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la.donna.pietra
07/09/09

@sequined: You have to brood constantly about how monstrous you are. Plus, you never get laid.

Unless you're Alice, Jasper, Esme, Carlisle, Rosalie, or Emmett. Then you get laid plenty and don't seem to have a care in the world.
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lucystrawberry: Tier 2 is the new black
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
This is Meyer's world, we're all just living in it.

I am a twilight fan. But, a friend recently told me that our mutual friend who is in her late twenties who has never had a relationship longer than six months said to her "All I want is an epic romance...like Bella and Edwards" And at that moment I realized that Twilight is dangerous and there should be some kind of licensing system before you get to engage in twilight reading or watching. Like, a basic emotional intelligence test or something. You should have to present proof that you have passed said test before being permitted to purchase the books or see the movie. We can model it after the process of becoming a commercial truck driver.
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cate3710
07/09/09

@lucystrawberry: Tier 2 is the new black: If you want pop culture epic romance, at least go with Veronica Mars and Logan. Still emotionally screwy, but much hotter and with more action.
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alouette
07/09/09

@lucystrawberry: Tier 2 is the new black: Yeah, I think that's my problem too. Not that their relationship is unrealistic, tons of fiction is the same way, but that fans are SO rabid about such an unhealthy thing. I know most people are smart enough to separate, but not everyone is and with such a big fan base, there will be proportionately more girls who end up with terrible disillusions. Oh, and the controlling, creepy stalker thing made out as "romantic," that too.
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Dodgergirl
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
Not only do you turn into one, but the book that turned you is the only book in the world meant for you. You isolate yourself from your family and friends to be with that book. It's a bit of a mystery to you, because while you can "read" other books, this is the ONE BOOK in the world you can't read. That's okay, it just makes your relationship more special.

Also, it is sparkly. How can you resist?
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Zombie Ms. Skittles
07/09/09

@Dodgergirl: Okay, somebody who can email from work (so...not me) needs to recommend this for COTD.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
I am on the fourth one (yes, I am reading them. I had to see what the fuss was about) and it began to give me nightmares so I had to put it down.

I feel like the first three are just a lame build up for some sort of preachy, disgusting (literally) pro-life message in #4. Besides for the obvious reasons (bad writing: OMG sparkly! perfect! wet bracken!) I think I have to quit it before I throw it at someone.
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bangers
07/09/09

@BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs....: wouldn't it be incredible if, after all, the massive popularity of the first three and the "timeless" romance Meyer created really were just written to establish an audience for a book about a deeply pro-life vampire with a pregnant wife? imagine the pitch meeting!
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Edited by bangers at 07/09/09 2:15 PM bangers was starred bangers was unstarred

la.donna.pietra
07/09/09

@bangers: In all fairness, Edward is not pro-life. He ain't pro-choice either, what with his burning desire for Bella to have an abortion post-haste, but he isn't pro-life by any definition.
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Dwangela
07/09/09

In reply to Twilight Author's Reign Continues
I started reading Twilight at the beach a few weeks ago. Now I'm on the fourth book. Dumb as the series may be, it's good brain candy...especially when you're stressed at work and don't want to have to think when you get home.
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inabook
07/09/09

@Dwangela: You know, I have zero qualms with people who read them as brain candy. Because... that is what they should be! They're not well written and they have terrible characters, but actually reading them is kind of enjoyable, in a sick way.

All the teens who think they are the BEST THING EVAR and pine after Edward disturb me though. I'd be ok with them being popular if most of the people who loved them realized that Edward is a creep and Bella is a wuss.
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chocolatecoffeebeans
07/09/09

@Dwangela: I initially felt the same way about these. I picked them up out of my daughter's room when there was absolutely NOTHING new to read in my house. It was all an okay escape for a while. But I found myself so disgusted by the stupid gender stereotyping and heavy-handed little subtle "lessons" that she tries to get across, I finally gave up. Forget it.
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Aleckto
07/09/09

@inabook: Am I the only one who can't read poorly written brain candy? I don't mind so much if the plot's ridiculous and the characters are caricatures, but if the writing is clunky or inelegant (to me, so, you know, YMMV), I just can't do it. I opened Twilight, saw that the writing was just too bad, and closed it again. Same for Dan Brown's stuff.

Oh, well, I'm lucky that there's plenty of well-written fluff out there, even if it takes more work to find it.
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