You know, as much as I dislike admitting it, Prejean kind of has a point in regards to Obama: irrespective of what we may think he may privately believe, he hasn't actually publicly supported gay marriage. And not doing so for political gain is a veeery cynical move, and say what you will about Prejean, but I personally don't think that she has the capacity for such cynicism.
This is not to 'endorse' her or 'attack' Obama or whatever (and I actually can't even believe I have to state this as a disclaimer), but a runner-up beauty queen doesn't really have the same power or influence as the POTUS, and that's a very crucial point to make.
(I kind of totes believe her on the Trump thing, tho. That man is a creeper, through and through!) #carrieprejean
@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: Yes, Prejean's statement is hardly shocking, but I guess there are a lot of people who want to believe Obama can do no wrong.
But of course what Prejean wants is to claim that because she has the same bigotry as Obama she must also have some of his good qualities.
Not so much. #carrieprejean
@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: Prejean does not get to call Obama a bigot. Period. I understand the point that she's clumsily trying to make, that Obama doesn't support gay marriage, either, but to compare herself to him is wrong.
Prejean is a white woman, with all the entitlements and privileges that skin color brings you in this country. Obama is a black man, and thus has faced institutional racism his whole life. Obama is not a bigot for the same reason reverse racism doesn't exist: To practice true bigotry or racism, you have to have the power of the institution behind you.
Carrie, YOU ARE A BIGOT. Now what are you going to do about it? I suggest stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com as a launching pad to your shiny new life as a former beauty queen who tours the country explaining your own white privilege and how you overcame it just enough to keep your nose, and your votes, out of gay people's love lives. #carrieprejean
@CoalMineCanary: "To practice true bigotry or racism, you have to have the power of the institution behind you."
While I agree with you in terms of race and privilege, both Prejean and Obama benefit from being straight and heteronormative, in a country, culture, and legal system that favours that. It is very easy to oppose gay marriage, or say that marriage is for 'a man and a woman only,' when you are never going to face the repercussions of this statement.
And given that this particular issue is about the rights of LGBT, I think it is important to not let this important distinction fall by the wayside. #carrieprejean
@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: You are absolutely correct. Being heterosexual is a huge leg up for both of them. If Obama was gay, he would not be president, even if he was also white.
I didn't mean to overlook this critical distinction; I wanted to point out that Prejean cannot compare herself to someone with whom she has no shared experience, i.e. being black in America. The fallacy of her statement, "If that makes me a bigot, so is Barack Obama" is that it's overly simplistic, ignoring the American context of race and heteronormalcy.
I'm deeply disappointed that Obama hasn't taken more of a stand on gay rights, but ultimately I consider Prejean to be a bigot, not Obama, for the reasons stated here and in my earlier comment. #carrieprejean
Yes they've both said they don't "support" gay marriage. Of course Obama said that for political gain...which I'm not in love with, but here's the difference: Obama said it so he could get in office and try to better the sad state of affairs in this country. We all know if he had said "please, for the love of God, let the gays marry already" We'd have McCain and Palin in office right now (I live in CA, a blue state that voted no on gay marriage the same day they voted yes for Obama- while my friends were rejoicing at his win, I was crying because obviously my state hates me). Prejan, whether she meant it or not, said it to win a pageant. Obama is still (sadly) saying this now, which is gross, but we can't even talk about healthcare without the name "HITLER" being thrown around, so there's some strategizing going on. I'm pretty disgusted with the way Obama has ignored the gays, but you can't equate the two. There are different roots behind each. #carrieprejean
I don't even understand marriage's place in the Constitution anyway, if there is to be no establishment of religion.
I am of the idea that the government shouldn't really get involved in marriage AT ALL...other than a marriage certificate being considered as legal proof for hospital visitation and the like. CIVIL UNIONS, from gay and straight couples, should be legally recognized. Marriage? That should be up to whatever church or organization marries you. If, say, civil unions were legal for anyone, but the Catholic church decided not to marry gays, fine. They can be a private institution. But the government has to marry anybody...which then gets into polygamy, which is insane and all, but I'm of the opinion that consenting adults can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm anybody else. *whew*
@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: Not everywhere, no, not by a long shot. And in a lot of places where they are, they do not carry all the same benefits of marriage. But I think first man meant that no one should get "legally married." We should all, gay and straight, get "legally civil unioned" and then "religiously married", if we so choose. I am a straight, married, Christian woman and I absolutely agree. I think it would be much clearer if the government got out of the marriage business altogether. #carrieprejean
I heard he even gave the most beautiful a crown and a banner proclaiming her such! And then he put the next three most beautiful in order so everyone would know! #carrieprejean
@Katxyz: Do they still have the Q & A and talent sections? Maybe she thought people were genuinely being judged on their 'merits', such as. #carrieprejean
Not Miss USA. Miss USA doesn't have a talent competition, and replaced its interview portion with a single final question reserved only for the finalists--so the final five girls selected based on evening wear and swimsuit wearing abilities get to answer a single question, and before that they all compete based only on looks.
They're ranked on their "merits" only after the top five prettiest pretties have been selected. #carrieprejean
Who does Stephanie Meyer think she is? Thomas Pynchon? Cormac McCarthy? Her writing is too stupid to try and put that reclusive genius writer act on. Ugh. #carrieprejean
@windupbird: As much as I do think Stephanie Meyer is often quite self-righteous about her writing, I don't know if not wanting to grant interviews means she's trying to "put that reclusive genius writer act on." Maybe she's just a really private person, or maybe she's seen the ridiculous amount of press scrutiny and fans-chasing-everywhere that Kristen Stewart and Robert Pattinson get and been squicked out by it. Or maybe there's something in her life that she couldn't do anymore if she were super-famous (like, Angelina Jolie, for example, said in an interview I read that she really misses being able to people-watch on the subway). Anyway, there are multiple alternate, more likely explanations.
Just as there are publicity hounds, there are people on the opposite end of the spectrum, too. Perhaps it's because I'm personally an introvert who would hate to be constantly in the public eye, but I'm a bit offended by your implication that one has to prove oneself as a "serious writer" before they're allowed to decline interviews. #carrieprejean
I want to hurt everyone who somehow thinks "marriage" is only a sacrament. Sorry, assholes, if you don't want gays getting married in your Church, great. Why the fuck don't they come out against heteros married by judges or other non-religious officials?
Am I missing something? Why exactly can they still claim "marriage" as something that belongs to them, exclusively?
@Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC: Seconded. She's as boring and stupid as every other cretin who makes themselves famous by being pretty (or plastic...Speidi?) on the outside, REALLY stupid on the inside, but all I can think when I see her (or Sarah Palin) is, "Fuck off, little girl. Go away, go away, go away." #carrieprejean
I LOVE that Katherine Jackson is telling Joe he can suck it. I feel like he probably hasn't been told that enough in his lifetime. Good for her. #carrieprejean
"I believed then and I believe now that marriage should be a legally recognized sacrament between a man and a woman. If that makes me a bigot, so is Barack Obama."
whoa whoa whoa, miss prejean back the truck up. legally recognized sacrament? sacrament = church, legal = state. never the twain shall meet. theres that pesky little thing called the first amendment of the us constitution.
although i agree with the second part of her statement (i cant believe i just wrote that). obama has a virtually identical position on gay marriage. just because he doesn't sound the moral panic alarm or scream at the hysterical pitch of miss prejean, he has no intention of repealing doma in the near future and has defended marriage as an exclusively heterosexual institution. its not so simple as a red state/blue state division. there are plenty of anti-gay rights democrats. #carrieprejean
@mordicai: Also, marriage is only a sacrament for Catholics and Orthodox Christians. Perhaps Prejean is Catholic, but she has been speaking at mainly fundamentalist Christian churches. It would be really disappointing if, in addition to being being bigoted, she was basing her beliefs on mistaken interpretation of Church doctrine. #carrieprejean
@KATE!: Thanks for saying this. She might be much stupider than Obama, but they do have pretty much the same stance on gay marriage and of the two of them, he's the one who actually has the power to make some changes. So, you know, all the outrage at her saying they have the same position is kind of ridick. #carrieprejean
Carrie Prejean is just like Barack Obama, except Barack Obama doesn't have fake tits or a masturbation tape. And he doesn't refuse to show up for work and get fired for sucking. #carrieprejean
@morninggloria: That you know of....I doubt he does, but as my physic teacher in HS was fond of saying "the absence of proof is not proof of absence". #carrieprejean
@whats_in_a_name: See Glenn Beck and how he raped and murdered that poor girl back in 1990. Why won't he show the evidence that proves his innocence?! #carrieprejean
@mfnher: You're using the fictional raping of a young girl as political fun? That's fucked up. Rape isn't generic violence like drunk driving or murder. It's gender violence, overwhelmingly misogynistic.
There are a slew of ways to go after Glen Beck without pushing the tired idea that it's fine to push misogynistic violence as entertainment or to score cheap points. It just trivializes it. #carrieprejean
Obama's bigotry doesn't make your bigotry okay, Carrie. As my mom is fond of saying, "We're not talking about him; we're talking about you." #carrieprejean
@curiousgeorgiana: By her logic, you can call her a bigot as long as you acknowledge that he is too.
Basically, she's calling progressives out for giving him a pass, even as they hate her for having the same belief about what the legal definition of marriage should be.
@Hana Maru: Yeah, I wasn't disagreeing with her (or you apparently). Obama's policy approach to gay rights is appalling, and he's got a very limited time before I stop waiting on him to rise above.
I was agreeing with wtfox?! that she can't deflect her own bigotry just by saying the president agrees with her. That just means they're both bigots. #carrieprejean
I can't stand the woman, but she has a point. Obama's stated views on the subject are the same as her own. So if your reason for calling her a bigot, then Obama, by your standards is a bigot too.
If, like me, you believe that he really does suppot gay marriage but denies it for political purposes, then he is a liar.
I choose liar Obama over bigot Obama, but I will say this. If he goes 8 years without coming out and supporting gay marriage, then I will call him a bigot. #carrieprejean
@ArgusRun: honestly, i'd rather obama be a bigot than a liar. if he is a bigot, he can be educated/persuaded and change his view. but if he is a liar...well there is no real reason to believe that he will ever do heed his ethical duty. if he is remains silent/inactive because of political opposition, it may never be the "right time" for equality. in my opinion liar and coward are interchangeable in this instance. #carrieprejean
8 years. Not 11 months, exactly. Because, in the last 29 years we have had 20 years of Republican presidents who rammed the idea (and in fact ran on it) that homosexuals are evil (and under one president in particular that homosexuals spread a "gay plague") This is a president who is actively working to make gay members in our society, members OF our society. I would love, and I mean LOVE for him to snap his fingers and have gay marriage legalized. But right now with the D.O.M.A. laws that are federal, and states waffling by the off-year vote-I would be happy just to get a foot in the door toward same sex equality by legalizing same sex couple adoption in all 50 states and then work from there. This piecemeal legislation is good in theory but the nullification is the pits. #carrieprejean
#carrieprejean The more Carrie Prejean tries to deflect criticism, the more it clings to her like a magnet. Particularly when she tries to deflect it onto the president.
11/11/09
This is not to 'endorse' her or 'attack' Obama or whatever (and I actually can't even believe I have to state this as a disclaimer), but a runner-up beauty queen doesn't really have the same power or influence as the POTUS, and that's a very crucial point to make.
(I kind of totes believe her on the Trump thing, tho. That man is a creeper, through and through!) #carrieprejean
11/11/09
But of course what Prejean wants is to claim that because she has the same bigotry as Obama she must also have some of his good qualities.
Not so much. #carrieprejean
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Prejean is a white woman, with all the entitlements and privileges that skin color brings you in this country. Obama is a black man, and thus has faced institutional racism his whole life. Obama is not a bigot for the same reason reverse racism doesn't exist: To practice true bigotry or racism, you have to have the power of the institution behind you.
Carrie, YOU ARE A BIGOT. Now what are you going to do about it? I suggest stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com as a launching pad to your shiny new life as a former beauty queen who tours the country explaining your own white privilege and how you overcame it just enough to keep your nose, and your votes, out of gay people's love lives. #carrieprejean
11/11/09
While I agree with you in terms of race and privilege, both Prejean and Obama benefit from being straight and heteronormative, in a country, culture, and legal system that favours that. It is very easy to oppose gay marriage, or say that marriage is for 'a man and a woman only,' when you are never going to face the repercussions of this statement.
And given that this particular issue is about the rights of LGBT, I think it is important to not let this important distinction fall by the wayside. #carrieprejean
11/12/09
I didn't mean to overlook this critical distinction; I wanted to point out that Prejean cannot compare herself to someone with whom she has no shared experience, i.e. being black in America. The fallacy of her statement, "If that makes me a bigot, so is Barack Obama" is that it's overly simplistic, ignoring the American context of race and heteronormalcy.
I'm deeply disappointed that Obama hasn't taken more of a stand on gay rights, but ultimately I consider Prejean to be a bigot, not Obama, for the reasons stated here and in my earlier comment. #carrieprejean
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see, when you put it this way it just sounds plain ol' unconstitutional. #carrieprejean
11/11/09
I am of the idea that the government shouldn't really get involved in marriage AT ALL...other than a marriage certificate being considered as legal proof for hospital visitation and the like. CIVIL UNIONS, from gay and straight couples, should be legally recognized. Marriage? That should be up to whatever church or organization marries you. If, say, civil unions were legal for anyone, but the Catholic church decided not to marry gays, fine. They can be a private institution. But the government has to marry anybody...which then gets into polygamy, which is insane and all, but I'm of the opinion that consenting adults can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm anybody else. *whew*
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Which is it?? #carrieprejean
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I am shocked, shocked to discover gambling in this establishment! #carrieprejean
11/10/09
MONSTROUS! #carrieprejean
11/11/09
I heard he even gave the most beautiful a crown and a banner proclaiming her such! And then he put the next three most beautiful in order so everyone would know! #carrieprejean
11/11/09
11/11/09
Not Miss USA. Miss USA doesn't have a talent competition, and replaced its interview portion with a single final question reserved only for the finalists--so the final five girls selected based on evening wear and swimsuit wearing abilities get to answer a single question, and before that they all compete based only on looks.
They're ranked on their "merits" only after the top five prettiest pretties have been selected. #carrieprejean
11/10/09
11/10/09
Just as there are publicity hounds, there are people on the opposite end of the spectrum, too. Perhaps it's because I'm personally an introvert who would hate to be constantly in the public eye, but I'm a bit offended by your implication that one has to prove oneself as a "serious writer" before they're allowed to decline interviews. #carrieprejean
11/11/09
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11/10/09
Am I missing something? Why exactly can they still claim "marriage" as something that belongs to them, exclusively?
@Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC: Seconded. She's as boring and stupid as every other cretin who makes themselves famous by being pretty (or plastic...Speidi?) on the outside, REALLY stupid on the inside, but all I can think when I see her (or Sarah Palin) is, "Fuck off, little girl. Go away, go away, go away." #carrieprejean
11/10/09
Of course, I kid. It would have been so easy for me to not read it. It was just too tempting! #carrieprejean
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whoa whoa whoa, miss prejean back the truck up. legally recognized sacrament? sacrament = church, legal = state. never the twain shall meet. theres that pesky little thing called the first amendment of the us constitution.
although i agree with the second part of her statement (i cant believe i just wrote that). obama has a virtually identical position on gay marriage. just because he doesn't sound the moral panic alarm or scream at the hysterical pitch of miss prejean, he has no intention of repealing doma in the near future and has defended marriage as an exclusively heterosexual institution. its not so simple as a red state/blue state division. there are plenty of anti-gay rights democrats. #carrieprejean
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There are a slew of ways to go after Glen Beck without pushing the tired idea that it's fine to push misogynistic violence as entertainment or to score cheap points. It just trivializes it. #carrieprejean
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11/10/09
Carrie: "I'm a bigot, but so is the President."
That means that you are still a bigot, Carrie! #carrieprejean
11/10/09
Basically, she's calling progressives out for giving him a pass, even as they hate her for having the same belief about what the legal definition of marriage should be.
11/10/09
I was agreeing with wtfox?! that she can't deflect her own bigotry just by saying the president agrees with her. That just means they're both bigots. #carrieprejean
11/10/09
If, like me, you believe that he really does suppot gay marriage but denies it for political purposes, then he is a liar.
I choose liar Obama over bigot Obama, but I will say this. If he goes 8 years without coming out and supporting gay marriage, then I will call him a bigot. #carrieprejean
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