"A non-Muslim dressing a non-Muslim doll in a burka trivializes it and reduces it to a costume as surely as Barbie's Mackies and bikinis and doctors' coats."
Hmm, now this is actually the justification that I've heard by Muslimahs and apologists, that it's just like any other garment(which I disagree with as it is uniquely restrictive and effacing)
Sadie - Re: the burka being lime green and vermilion
you'd be surprised by the manner of burkas one see's women wearing in europe and the middle east. everything from Fendi logos to gold embroidery head to toe and diamong and crystal studded ones for special occasions - the bright colors are not uncommon, especially at weddings etc!
@rd2uk: Sky blue seems to be the color of choice in Afghanistan. I'd be interested to know if other countries have a majority of burkas or other Islamic coverings in one particular color.
Hmm. Would you, or any of us, have hesitated to comment if the style of dress was not Muslim, but ultra-conservative Christian. Or perhaps the FLDS women with their elaborate pompadours & prairie dresses?
@labeled: I think the religious tenant of "modesty," in whatever form, is an unhealthy way to look at morality. It's not a choice in the same way what I'm wearing today (just a tee shirt and jeans) is a choice. I'm wearing this because it's comfortable and I think it looks nice and cultural norms. A woman who wears modest religious clothing may also make those distinctions, but additionally she's wearing her outfit as part of a religious practice rooted in the idea that there is inherently something sexual (and therefore wrong) about the female body.
Which isn't to say that I think this Barbie was a bad idea, or that women shouldn't be allowed to wear the burqa. Women should be allowed to make their own choices, especially about something as personal as how they dress. But we shouldn't ignore that this style of dress is, in fact, rooted in a patriarchal mindset.
@eatsshootsleaves: I agree. I have, though, become increasingly interested in how we (we as in a largely liberal group) tend to give all things Muslim/Islam a pass, while at the same time, openly denigrate those who practice Christianity.
@eatsshootsleaves: What about a religion such as Amish where both the men and women have a very identifiable and "modest" form of dress?
Also, I think it would be very hard to find a form or style of dress that ISN'T rooted in some kind of patriarchal mindset. How much of the fashion in the US is rooted in that and "looking good" to attract men?
@Red-headed bookworm: I must say that I agree. I grew up in a small sect of Protestantism that did not allow women to wear pants or skirts above their ankles or cut their hair. Men were expected to dress plainly as well and some churches had similar restrictions such as no facial hair or short sleeves. The people in this sect felt very strongly about their dress and would get special permission to wear dresses at work or the pool (oh yeah, the pool). I even remember sermons that advocated for women to quit their jobs if they were not allowed to wear their traditional clothing.
Though I do not practice this dress code now (my family moved to another state when I was starting middle school and there were no such churches in that area), I don't feel that there was anything wrong with the code itself. I've always viewed this dress as what I was always told: that it wasn't as much an attempt to cover up my body as it was a symbol of my faith to people outside and inside of the church.
I think that by simply stigmatizing the burka we are, in fact, looking at it very one-dimensionally and making the women who wear them out to be weak and almost infantile in that they don't really understand what their clothes mean and that they need us, women from the West, to tell them how to dress. Their clothes mean something very different to them than they do us in the same way that I have very different feelings about my traditional clothes than women I describe them to. The issue isn't the burka. It's violence against women. If a woman is forced to do something on threat of violence or death, be is wearing a burka or sexy clothing, that's the problem. The abusive society behind the clothes are the problem, not the clothes themselves because how we dress our bodies mean wildly different things to different, thinking women.
Some of us like to dress in order to show our skin to make a point (that our bodies are natural and beautiful) and some of us like to dress in order to cover our skin to make an equally valid point (that our bodies are devoted to our God and thus clothed in a certain garb). Neither is better than the other.
@countrycomesup: I grew up with a friend who was Pentecostal and had similar rules regarding dress. I also grew up with Muslims who decided to wear a hijab when they got older. I never thought these things were out of the ordinary, just a different way to dress.
I agree that the society behind clothes is more of a problem than the clothing itself. If we stigmatize clothes based on the society they are prevalent in, we'd have nothing to wear. :) I think, for those in the US, it's harder to understand the reasons behind a culture that would wear something such as a burqa, just because it is so different than what you are accustomed to here. You said it well, neither is better than the other.
As it has been said on Jez before, many millions of muslim women wear the burka by their own choice. They are not forced to do so. I think its quite an orientalist approach to assume that all women who choose to wear their religious dress are being forced to do so by men.
In my opinion, it reeks of orientalism to paint all muslim women who wear the burka, as being subjects of oppression and extremism.
When did every practice that is different from our own become evil and reviled?
This is not to say that women arent forced to wear the burka, but that many millions choose to by their own accord, and I dont think its fair to discount their religious beliefs/practices for daring to be different from our own.
@rd2uk: @blazedom: Right. And there are plenty of places where wearing one can put women at risk of violence or death.
I have a friend who—in uber-liberal Cambridge, MA, in Harvard Square—was attacked and had her coat, shirt, and headscarf ripped off of her by a mob of anti-Muslim ignorants shortly after Spetmber 11.
Feminism to me means that women should wear whatever the hell they feel like, be it a burka or a four-inch-long miniskirt, and not feel threatened, intimidated, or endangered walking down a street.
@rd2uk: I can only speak for myself, but I think the very fact that women are forced to cover up in more fundamentalist regimes is precisely what makes it so hard for me to understand why a woman living in more secular society would choose to cover up. But, you know, each to her own. I find it just as hard to understand why any woman would choose to have octuplets, or cartoon-size breast implants, or wear a g-string, so…
@betty.black: I agree with you 100%. No one should have to pander to our expectations of right and wrong. I don't know how we can expect millions of women around the world to give up their cultural and religious practice to meet our expectations.
@Diziet_Sma: And there are Muslim women out there who wonder why you would subject yourself to the judgements on your body that come with wearing, and particularly shopping for, Western clothing.
I mean, doesn't everyone have a moment when they're jeans shopping when the idea of everyone just wearing a burka seem kind of appealing? To me it seems like the same idea that's behind school uniforms.
Marcia Pappas and several of the commenters on Pajamas Media appear to be slamming Mattel, while I read this the same as you -- a one-off artistic display that Mattel may have given a little underwriting money toward, perhaps they donated the dolls, or at least they've given permission for them to be used.
I mean, it's not like Mattel is suddenly going to start selling the things, a point that seems lost on some of the commenters to the other site.
@Magister: Mattel actually does make dolls under different distributors in different regions of the world. Takara Jenny was one such doll that was tailored to Japanese tastes.
Remember Barbie is the American version. I don't think it would be a stretch to say they localized dolls for different markets.
They do that for movies and video games...why not toys? Would it be so horrible for them to make a Barbie doll that tailored to the tastes and mores of the culture that plays with it?
@Magister: Yea I don't think Mattel should be at fault for all. This is Fox trying to fuel the fire of bigotry.
"Look at those dirty Jihad dolls"
Now if the art show had strapped mini bombs to these dolls we'd have another discussion.
It's just short-sightedness on NOW's part to assume dolls aren't already being made to fit similar tastes. And to be outraged over making a profit from them when we pour billions of dollars in oil money into that region is laughable.
@LilSpitfire:
It appears that some of the people on the other site didn't get the memo because some of the commenters (and the article's headline) are calling for a boycott.
@Lymed: I think the most Barbie can do is a split. Which is frankly more than I can do. Oh great, now I feel sexually inadequate. *Shakes fist* Damn you, Barbie, and your unattainable standards!
You know, I see burqas in Boston. Which is to say, not all Muslims that wear burqas live under regimes where they "are forced to wear the burka or risk being murdered."
That being said, I do think it's a sexist style of dress. I think it's wrong to see it as something inherently violent, though.
@eatsshootsleaves: Exactly. It's problematic when any choice is taken away from a woman because she is a woman. But if a woman is free to wear what she wants, and this is what she chooses then cool. Go ahead. The only reason it'll get a second glance is because I've never seen it in person before. There are days when I'd like to be covered head-to-toe, too.
@Blueberry26: I've had that same thought. There have been days where I thought about how much easier gettting ready would be if I were covered head-to-toe.
This doesn't anger me so much as it makes me eyerolly, although I'd kind of like to have one as I've become rather interested in collecting non-white Barbies.
It would probably anger me if it surprised me at all, but it doesn't. I just spent part of the weekend with my communications class at a Jordanian restaurant where people freaked out and refused to eat half the food because it had rose flavoring and looked weird.
@HidingInCanada: Vanessa Williams, Joe Jackson, Aishwarya Rai are a few 'people of color' with light-colored eyes.
There are probably more that I can't name off the top of my head. But my point is, Caucasian people aren't the only ones who have genes for light-colored eyes. Especially in the U.S. where there's been so much racial amalgamation. #loannehizoostlie
@lodown: LOL. All of my family has blue, green or light brown/hazel eyes. All of them, regardless of skin color, which ranges from Grace Jones chocolate to Alicia Keys honey colored. I'm the only one with grey though!! :D #loannehizoostlie
@HidingInCanada: Some interracial people look like that, especially if you go down to Israel or Brazil (technically, though, all of us are interracial in one way or another. Not all of us are lucky enough, though, to have blue eyes with dark skin!)
In Israel, I saw a lot of dark-skinned people with light eyes. I've also seen people from Iran who look almost exactly like that doll, except with green eyes. I've seen some Brazilian girls who look like that, too. Of course, she could always be Native American (but I don't see many of those here that look like that.)
Plus, there are always contact lenses... for those of us who get bored with what nature gives us. #loannehizoostlie
@divinelioness: It totally bugs me when people assume that certain physical features are exclusive to one 'race'. It's usually the result of a narrow, distorted view of genetics and race. Light-colored eyes and hair may be more common among people of northern European descent, but they're not exclusively Caucasian traits. I found out last year that blond hair is fairly common among the Aboriginal people of Australia and New Zealand (especially as children). #loannehizoostlie
@roxythekiller: Yeah, there's no such thing as standard traits when you get a person of mixed race. Mr. L. looks like his Japanese mom, but his eyes are green. #loannehizoostlie
11/23/09
Hmm, now this is actually the justification that I've heard by Muslimahs and apologists, that it's just like any other garment(which I disagree with as it is uniquely restrictive and effacing)
11/23/09
you'd be surprised by the manner of burkas one see's women wearing in europe and the middle east. everything from Fendi logos to gold embroidery head to toe and diamong and crystal studded ones for special occasions - the bright colors are not uncommon, especially at weddings etc!
good choice not become fox news fodder, though.
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
@labeled:
11/23/09
11/23/09
Which isn't to say that I think this Barbie was a bad idea, or that women shouldn't be allowed to wear the burqa. Women should be allowed to make their own choices, especially about something as personal as how they dress. But we shouldn't ignore that this style of dress is, in fact, rooted in a patriarchal mindset.
11/23/09
11/23/09
Also, I think it would be very hard to find a form or style of dress that ISN'T rooted in some kind of patriarchal mindset. How much of the fashion in the US is rooted in that and "looking good" to attract men?
11/23/09
Though I do not practice this dress code now (my family moved to another state when I was starting middle school and there were no such churches in that area), I don't feel that there was anything wrong with the code itself. I've always viewed this dress as what I was always told: that it wasn't as much an attempt to cover up my body as it was a symbol of my faith to people outside and inside of the church.
I think that by simply stigmatizing the burka we are, in fact, looking at it very one-dimensionally and making the women who wear them out to be weak and almost infantile in that they don't really understand what their clothes mean and that they need us, women from the West, to tell them how to dress. Their clothes mean something very different to them than they do us in the same way that I have very different feelings about my traditional clothes than women I describe them to. The issue isn't the burka. It's violence against women. If a woman is forced to do something on threat of violence or death, be is wearing a burka or sexy clothing, that's the problem. The abusive society behind the clothes are the problem, not the clothes themselves because how we dress our bodies mean wildly different things to different, thinking women.
Some of us like to dress in order to show our skin to make a point (that our bodies are natural and beautiful) and some of us like to dress in order to cover our skin to make an equally valid point (that our bodies are devoted to our God and thus clothed in a certain garb). Neither is better than the other.
11/24/09
I agree that the society behind clothes is more of a problem than the clothing itself. If we stigmatize clothes based on the society they are prevalent in, we'd have nothing to wear. :) I think, for those in the US, it's harder to understand the reasons behind a culture that would wear something such as a burqa, just because it is so different than what you are accustomed to here. You said it well, neither is better than the other.
11/23/09
In my opinion, it reeks of orientalism to paint all muslim women who wear the burka, as being subjects of oppression and extremism.
When did every practice that is different from our own become evil and reviled?
This is not to say that women arent forced to wear the burka, but that many millions choose to by their own accord, and I dont think its fair to discount their religious beliefs/practices for daring to be different from our own.
11/23/09
I have a friend who—in uber-liberal Cambridge, MA, in Harvard Square—was attacked and had her coat, shirt, and headscarf ripped off of her by a mob of anti-Muslim ignorants shortly after Spetmber 11.
Feminism to me means that women should wear whatever the hell they feel like, be it a burka or a four-inch-long miniskirt, and not feel threatened, intimidated, or endangered walking down a street.
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
I mean, doesn't everyone have a moment when they're jeans shopping when the idea of everyone just wearing a burka seem kind of appealing? To me it seems like the same idea that's behind school uniforms.
11/23/09
I mean, it's not like Mattel is suddenly going to start selling the things, a point that seems lost on some of the commenters to the other site.
11/23/09
Remember Barbie is the American version. I don't think it would be a stretch to say they localized dolls for different markets.
They do that for movies and video games...why not toys? Would it be so horrible for them to make a Barbie doll that tailored to the tastes and mores of the culture that plays with it?
11/23/09
Right now, it's just a one-off display and to fault Mattel is sort of like calling out paint companies because of offensive graffiti.
11/23/09
"Look at those dirty Jihad dolls"
Now if the art show had strapped mini bombs to these dolls we'd have another discussion.
It's just short-sightedness on NOW's part to assume dolls aren't already being made to fit similar tastes. And to be outraged over making a profit from them when we pour billions of dollars in oil money into that region is laughable.
NOW is missing the mark big on this.
I'm not a fan of xenophobic imperialism.
11/23/09
It appears that some of the people on the other site didn't get the memo because some of the commenters (and the article's headline) are calling for a boycott.
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
I agree with Anna's advice. No reason to be Fox's pawn.
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
That being said, I do think it's a sexist style of dress. I think it's wrong to see it as something inherently violent, though.
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
It would probably anger me if it surprised me at all, but it doesn't. I just spent part of the weekend with my communications class at a Jordanian restaurant where people freaked out and refused to eat half the food because it had rose flavoring and looked weird.
11/23/09
11/23/09
and might I add, with their toes chewed into pancakes, and terrible haircuts.
10/27/09
How many people of color do you know that have blue eyes?
Oh god, I'm being too nitpicky. #loannehizoostlie
10/27/09
There are probably more that I can't name off the top of my head. But my point is, Caucasian people aren't the only ones who have genes for light-colored eyes. Especially in the U.S. where there's been so much racial amalgamation. #loannehizoostlie
10/27/09
10/27/09
In Israel, I saw a lot of dark-skinned people with light eyes. I've also seen people from Iran who look almost exactly like that doll, except with green eyes. I've seen some Brazilian girls who look like that, too. Of course, she could always be Native American (but I don't see many of those here that look like that.)
Plus, there are always contact lenses... for those of us who get bored with what nature gives us. #loannehizoostlie
10/27/09
10/27/09
10/26/09
I do have to say though, they are really making me lament my lack of cat eyes and luscious lips. #loannehizoostlie
10/27/09
10/26/09
Does anyone else think that #4 resembles Audrey Tautou? #loannehizoostlie