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Sukie in the Graveyard
08/12/09

In reply to Katy Lied
How are these two things mutually exclusive?
I'd like to ask someone but I'm afraid that they will get REALLY angry. A calm and rational answer seems impossible...
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clochette
08/12/09

In reply to Katy Lied
Absolute freedom is NOT a desirable thing. Absolute freedom - absolute lack of interdependency - can only happen within the total breakdown of a society. We can never be truly free because we cannot escape the fact that each person's actions have an impact on other's lives, just as our actions affect others too. So we have to choose: what freedoms must be maintained for the greater good, and which freedoms are worth sacrificing for the greater good. It's obvious when you think of examples such as the fact that you don't have the freedom to fire a gun at random - because you sacrifice that 'freedom' for the greater good of society. A country which places too much emphasis on INDIVIDUAL freedoms and not on COLLECTIVE good is a selfish and essentially blinkered one. And counterproductive, too, because working together can in many case reap greater rewards.
PS: I don't actually see what freedoms have to be sacrificed for state healthcare. The freedom not to die for lack of insurance?
There is already a state school system, federal police force, government managed highways, etc. Why is nobody accusing these things of taking away their freedom?!
It makes me ache to see Americans like Katy kicking themselves in the teeth. Why aren't they on THEIR SIDE?!
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Liz Lemmon
08/11/09

In reply to Katy Lied
Riddle me this: A toothpaste sized tube of 0.1% Retin -A in Mexico costs $30. Here in America?
1. they dont even make tubes that big.
2. they do not make tubes this big because the "normal" size tubes run upwards of $100.
and this makes sense, why? From someone who has "good" healthcare through my job, (thank god) the stress of losing it is not enough to put up with this shit. this is goddamn laughable.
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stacyinbean
08/12/09

@dotcom.com: Yeah, it just cost me $200 for my little tube, and that's mostly because people here are so vain and selfish they are running up their doctors for it so they won't get wrinkles. Now I, who need the prescription for its intended purpose, am stuck footing the bill for other people's vanity.
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labeled
08/12/09

@stacyinbean: Well, to be fair, that's probably not true. Big Pharma is making more money because of them - so really it's not the de-wrinklers fault, it's Big Pharma's, who refuses to make 1% less than 500,365,542% profit on the item no matter WHO buys it.
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whynotshesaid
08/11/09

In reply to Katy Lied
Insurance companies and hospitals almost let my baby sister live the rest of her life without part of her skull. I doubt the government could do much worse. So I'd like to invite you to suck it, Katy

[www.msnbc.msn.com]
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Edited by whynotshesaid at 08/11/09 8:23 PM whynotshesaid was starred whynotshesaid was unstarred

whynotshesaid
08/11/09

@whynotshesaid: OMG. Here's the link: [www.msnbc.msn.com]
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Aethyr
08/12/09

@whynotshesaid: Jesus, that's horrible.
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likepenguins
08/11/09

In reply to Katy Lied
Dear Katy: I understand your concerns about your limited freedoms. I also feel that my freedoms are being infringed upon. Here is what I would like! I would like the Freedom to have a physical with complete blood work once a year to help prevent any disasterous medical illnesses from forming without my knowledge. I would like the Freedom to know that if I get hit by a car on my way home from work, or accidentally shot by someone exercising his or her right to carry a handgun, I will be able to be treated quickly, humanely, and without bankrupting me for life, thus having to go on Welfare. I would like the Freedom to be able to afford my copay and prescription drug costs, not to mention all the extras like X-rays, labwork, and god knows what else, so that I can go to the doctor with a simple sinus infection and not have to spend weeks trying to fight it off without antibiotics. I would like the Freedom to receive excellent care, regardless of my income, if I should ever be so unfortunate as to have a serious illness. I would like the Freedom of not having to move from a small hometown in order to find a job with a company large enough that it can afford to offset the cost of healthcare for its employees. I would like the Freedom to not have to pay 700 dollars a month for coverage, making me so broke otherwise as to never be able to afford the co-pay to use it.
I would like to extend to you these same Freedoms.
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thesugarplum
08/11/09

In reply to Katy Lied
I'm so distraught there are people out there who believe all this. Everyone deserves basic healthcare. People should not be punished for having a pre-existing condition. I'm baffled on the Socialism comments. Do they even have a clue what they are talking about? We have Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Free Public Schools, Student Aid, etc. Why is there a complete freakout about one more item that should be common sense - take care of your citizens with basic healthcare! People 65+ already get this - why not everyone? The healthier people are, the more they can contribute to society, even! It just makes no sense.
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dridirtitini
08/11/09

@thesugarplum: that's the thing, these people are fighting against their own interests. and it has a lot to do with a fear of change (and the scary muslin president whose making that change) than it has to do with common sense. these people could care less about facts. I am so DISTURBED by this.
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dridirtitini
08/11/09

In reply to Katy Lied
my cousin died a week before his 25th birthday last year because of this country's stance on healthcare. he was working fulltime, he was a citizen, he paid his taxes and yet, he had to wait one year until his company's employee plan went into affect. during that year, he endured months of backpain that he and my aunt figured wouldn't be worth the doctor bills to have checked out. by the time he was checked, he was in stage four of a cancer that i forget the name of, that was curable had it been caught before hand. they gave him 6 months to live.
i moved to europe to be with my (european) boo, but the healthcare system here was a huge factor in my decision. hell, i needed mental health treatment that my very nice insurance plan in America didn't cover (I worked for an Insurance company so my coverage was better than most) since I fell into depression after the incident with my cousin (and other stuff). a hee-larious vicious cycle caused completely by healthcare (or the lack thereof in the USA).
this shit has to stop. people who have blind hatred for our new black president need to pick a new fucking battle because i am sick of this. physically sick. I can't believe this woman and the personalities that are fueling this bullshit. i am sick to my stomach watching all of this unfold. I wish there was something I could do. I wish I could yell at Congress or.... SOMETHING. Because this is not and should not be about politics or fear, it is about lives. and between this lady and the guy with the gun in New Hampshire, I'm ready to throw in towel. I've never felt so helpless...
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whynotshesaid
08/11/09

@dridirtitini: That is terrible about your cousin. I am so sorry.
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stacyinbean
08/11/09

In reply to Katy Lied
Good Lord! Someone alert most of Europe and the Canadians that they are not free! I volunteer Katy, on horseback.
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History Major
08/11/09

In reply to Katy Lied
I wonder if she gets her mail through the United States Postal Service? Surely she would be more comfortable using UPS or Fedex.
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likepenguins
08/11/09

@PogoStick09: to be honest, I think it's quite clear she hasn't availed herself of our public libraries.
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Isi
08/11/09

In reply to Katy Lied
"Don't talk to me about 'death panels', Sarah Palin."
[sobeale.blogspot.com]
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sylvie calls shotgun!!
08/11/09

@Isi: I had the unfortunate experience of being dragged into the conference room with a team of doctors when my grandfather was ill. My belief is that the hospital, running under the assumption that the insurance company would no longer cover my grandfather's stay in the ICU, sat my family down and tried to convince us that we should pull the plug. We knew he was not going to ever make it out of the hospital. But, in retrospect, I realize now how much the administrative staff attempted to blur the argument between life-prolonging treatment and life-sustaining treatment. It wanted us to believe that the latter was the former. It was very frustrating and surreal. And, it's not as though you're in the right state of mind to argue and articulate the point.
I find it hard to believe that a profit driven enterprise would have more sympathy in that situation that a public option.
The best way to take down the conservative line would be for some talking head to grow enough balls to ask the simple who, what, when where, how questions. How is public option health care tantamount to socialism? What is more damaging for society -- a system that looks to insure the most people possible or a profit based system in which people can go bankrupt because of a serious illness -- driving those people to public assistance and medicaid. How, at the end of the day are the American people not flipping the bill in order for private health care systems to profit? Unfortunately, ratings and emphasis on sounds bites ever keep that from being the order of the day.
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labeled
08/11/09

In reply to Katy Lied
So, am I the only person with Republican parents who is absolutely terrified that any of.. this will come out? I mean, I love them. And they're both incredibly smart people, with whom I disagree on most issues political, but it doesn't make them birthers or whatnot. But... I'm scared to death there might be a little DEATHPANEL!!! crazy lurking in there somewhere.
So I won't talk politics, AT ALL with them now.
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Edited by labeled at 08/11/09 6:06 PM labeled was starred labeled was unstarred

Experiment626
08/11/09

@labeled: My parents are Chinese immigrants and they're terrified too... but they're terrified that the angry sentiment that seems to be spreading will soon generate backlash towards non "real" americans (even though they are both American citizens).
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labeled promoted this comment Experiment626 was starred Experiment626 was unstarred

labeled
08/11/09

@Experiment626: Gods, what a horrible thing to have to fear. That is literally the saddest thing (out of some kickers) I've read today.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
08/11/09

In reply to Katy Lied
Um really? So dealing with my insurance company's BS about who I can see, when I can see them, and what type of treatment I can get is what counts as freedom now?
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WashingMyHair
08/11/09

In reply to Katy Lied
She's about as smart as that guy that claims to have been injured ath that town hall in St. Louis while he was protesting the healthcare reform plan. Ironically, he's now taking donations towards his medical bills because HE HAS NO INSURANCE! You can't make this stuff up.
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Ipomoea
08/11/09

@WashingMyHair: No, no, THAT GETS EVEN BETTER: it turns out that yes, he did lose his job and HI, but he now has HI through his wife's employer, but he still wanted donations.
[www.washingtonmonthly.com]
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quatrevingtquatre
08/11/09

In reply to Katy Lied
Today was my breaking point day. I am a poli sci major stuck in a typical office job and I've avoided discussing politics (since November 4th) because I choose to live in blissful ignorance about the people in this country who have no common sense and will do as they are told without asking why. And while I want to believe that Katy is alone, I have unfriended several people on Facebook over this issue because THEY SAY THIS STUPID CRAP THAT THEY DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND.
Ladyface, define socialism for me.
Please also tell me more about death panels and what the founding fathers were thinking of in 1776. Answer those questions in a reasonable, thoughtful manner, and I will debate with you. But this f***ery and using socialism like it's a dirty word is SO FRUSTRATING.
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ArtfulSlinger
08/11/09

@quatrevingtquatre: She thinks we will be waiting for toilet paper. Because she is a fucking stooge.
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quatrevingtquatre
08/11/09

@ArtfulSlinger:
How did she make the leap from "people can have healthcare" to "healthcare vs. freedom" to "Russia" to "waiting in line for toilet paper"!!!! I mean SERIOUSLY. Socialism is not why there were lines for bread in the USSR. I want to shake the person who wrote the e-mail (probably in Comic Sans MS) full of this nonsense crap. OOOH actually, it was Glenn Beck and his communist flag birthday cake & discussion of how Obama's parents met at Russian class during the Cold War.
I HATE EVERYONE.
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ArtfulSlinger
08/11/09

In reply to Katy Lied
Also please lets not forget that lovely Conservative groups, who have day jobs at lobbiest firms, are planting people left and right in these meetings. She seems way too cute to be so random.
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ArtfulSlinger
08/11/09

@ArtfulSlinger: AS I SAID...Check out this sleeping giant! Here's Katy being interviewed by WOW OH WOW Fox News. She goes on to tell us how she's a stay at home mom and is terrified of waiting in line for toilet paper.
[stopsocialism.wordpress.com]
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Edited by ArtfulSlinger at 08/11/09 6:04 PM ArtfulSlinger was starred ArtfulSlinger was unstarred

slowpoke.r
08/11/09

@ArtfulSlinger: How on earth can anyone make the jump from healthcare reform to waiting in line for toilet paper? This is just so freaking bizarre.
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midwestdesigner
08/11/09

@slowpoke.r: When you have a lot of shit to spew, you worry about that kind of thing all the time.
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Erode
08/11/09

@ArtfulSlinger: This is one of the stupidest arguments to come out of either side that I've ever heard. Like it or not, there are opposing viewpoints in the world. Like it or not, those opposing viewpoints have a right to speak. And claiming that these opposing viewpoints are planted, bussed in, un-American, nazis, mobsters, what have you is not only hypocritical, it is insulting.

Both sides may be busing in plants at this point, but make no mistake about it, there are legitimate people who have legitimate concerns and trying to downplay them as being manufactured is just embarrassing.
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Edited by Erode at 08/11/09 8:49 PM Erode was starred Erode was unstarred

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