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andromache
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
this makes me glad that my competitive activities of yore were limited to drum corps and marching band. the emphasis was always on performance, and had nothing to do with appearance, because uhh we all wore the same unflattering uniforms, and our personal appearance had nothing to do with our musical performance. the only downside was the permanent damage I inflicted on my wrists as part of the drumline. yep, every day I have pain, and every day I have no regrets for well-earned pain. I can't even imagine what it's like to be a dancer or other type of athlete. how can they focus on the sport/art if they are being pressured to look a certain way?
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Cafezinha
06/02/09

@andromache can't not die in a freak gasoline fight accident: Dude, no way.

Who's you march with? :D

Magic of Orlando '99 and '00, until they folded, that is, and aged out with Crown in '01.

(And that kind of pressure is why I avoided guard, even though I had dreams of dance. I didn't start performing until just a year ago--I don't think my younger self would have been able to stand the scrutiny, real or imagined!)
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Cafezinha
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
In moments of weakness, I let myself get depressed over never being good enough and being "the big girl" in the activities I do. I hate that feeling--doesn't matter how fierce and strong I am when I'm sparring, doesn't matter how beautifully and artfully I express myself when I dance. If I could just drop some poundage...I would be perfect...

And that's when I have to tell my brain to STFU and get outta my head with that shit. My body is strong and fit as HELL, and I'm not about to punish it for not conforming to bullshit standards that require me to be tiny while being blue ribbon skilled at my sports.

Recently, I was venting to a friend of mine about being frustrated with the "less than" feeling and not liking being judged for my appearance, rather than my performance. He told me that recently, when I invited him and his ladyfriend over for supper and she tried to remember who I was (I'd only met her once previously), and when he described me, she said "Oh! She's the one who looks really strong, right?". That was exactly what I needed to hear--I'm not too big. I'm freaking strong, and I look like it.

PH33R M3! :D
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sciencerules
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
I'm on "team sensationalist" here. Do some women who would otherwise still be exhibiting signs of disordered eating use sports/dance to keep a certain look? Absolutely. Do women's sports cause disordered eating? Hell no. Dance? Kinda depends on the dance culture you're brought up in, in my experience. (Full disclosure: I am Bella Swan levels of clumsy when asked to dance. This is all anecdotal evidence.) Is dedicated training hard on your body? Of course. We're functionally flexible creatures, and if we do any one thing too much we're going to start to break down. Does that mean that we should never train the crap out of ourselves to do something we love? Of course not.
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MilointheMeadow
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
I think this research is a little skewed because ballerinas are under certain demands that don't come into play in other sports. Do swimmers, for example, feel the same need to be slimslimslim yet powerful? Because those I've known in the past were proud of their broad shoulders and powerful thighs. To focus on ballet may not be the best representation for "female athletes" across the board.
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saintbernadette
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
My sister was Super Athlete throughout high school and much of college. She turns 29 tomorrow, and now she's regretting all that activity (and disordered eating).

Her knees are fucked and she has a hernia (!); I hope none of this other stuff emerges.
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GTCosita
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
It's so scary that women do not adjust their eating habits based on their level of physical activity. If a man were running six times a week, he'd be eating a ton of food to sustain himself. I bet that most of these women probably eat almost the same whether they run 6x a week or 3x a week or 0x a week.
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Nighthawk (the former Okori Wadsworth) is headed back to DGUSA in November!
06/02/09

@GTCosita: this. i go to the gym 4 times a week. I eat like a racehorse. The lady goes with me and she eats like a racehorse. but her friend who goes 5 TIMES a week eats like a rabbit. we basically ahd to intervene and go: "Listen you're going to hurt yourself real bad. Please start to consume more food." I'm summarizing there. it was a longer thing with much more begging, pleading, and crying.
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GTCosita
06/02/09

@Nighthawk (the former Okori Wadsworth) is going to the DGUS...: The more I exercise (running and cycling), the more I am hungry and dreaming of carbs all day long. I can't imagine running so MUCH and not wanting to eat at Waffle House every day for breakfast.
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Nighthawk (the former Okori Wadsworth) is headed back to DGUSA in November!
06/02/09

@GTCosita: like today i know i'm going back to the gym and believe me when i tell you no one will have to ask if i am eating enough, and neither will the lady when she goes to her gym across town. we will then compare notes over a big bowl of pasta with homemade sauce.
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HarpMadness
06/02/09

@GTCosita: I know! My body is really pretty good at telling me when I need more (or less) food. If I could just listen -- ha ha. Anyway, right now, when I'm biking into work every day, I am hungry all the time! I make sure to eat good stuff and I can just seem my muscles building up! Woo!
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formergr
06/02/09

@GTCosita: God, who are these women? I run on average 1-2 per week, but if I'm training for a 10-miler or a triathlon, obviously my training increases. And correspondingly, my appetite-- I end up seriously mow-ing at every meal. And snack. Many snacks! And this is why I don't ever lose weight when I train for a race...oh well, it keeps me healthy, and I do tone up nicely.
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morninggloria
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
It's a good thing that ballet isn't too tackle-intensive. With those kind of bone density issues, I'd imagine that the team doctor for a tackle ballet team would keep herself pretty busy.
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Triphena
06/02/09

@morninggloria: I would pay good money to watch tackle ballet.
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Nighthawk (the former Okori Wadsworth) is headed back to DGUSA in November!
06/02/09

@Triphena: so would I.
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Nighthawk (the former Okori Wadsworth) is headed back to DGUSA in November!
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
to all of the Jezathletes (and there are a lot of you, and i love each and every one of you like my own sisters *even though i never had one*) eat plenty please. the training table is your friend.

hell, the supermarket is your friend.
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SmallbutMighty
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
so what I'm getting here is that it has more to do with dispordered eating than activity. Everything i've read up til now has mentioned that exercise, particularly weight bearing, is really good for bone density.

I'm also wondering about the no-period thing. Is it that not having a period affects your bone density, or is it that not having a period is often a sign of greater health issues?
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MilointheMeadow
06/02/09

@SmallbutMighty: I think bone density is directly related to estrogen: more estrogen = stronger bones. This is why many women have less bone density after menopause. Exercise increases your testosterone, which lowers your estrogen, which results in irregular periods and/or amenorrhea and lower bone density.
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MissMoneypenny
06/02/09

@MilointheMeadow doesn't have a star and is totally okay wit...: It's having a low body weight that causes the hormonal changes, not exercising. Exercise is not the problem in the female athlete tetrad. The problem is not eating enough. Women can be athletes and not suffer these health problems because of it.
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MilointheMeadow
06/02/09

@MissMoneypenny: I didn't meant to point my finger at exercise as the main culprit. The way the research is presented here actually makes me uneasy because it seems to insinuate this as well. But I do agree with you that disordered eating is the significant thing; I just thought the bone density to estrogen link is also interesting.
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vamusical
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
So... this seems rather sensationalist to me. It's not that ALL female athletes have health problems, just the ones who are likely depriving themselves of food, which... duh.
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AtomiClash: humanitarian misanthrope
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
A somewhat ironic thing is that doctors recommend 30 minutes (min.) of weight-bearing exercise, like running, every day in order for women at risk of osteoporosis and osteopenia to strengthen their bones.

I get upset by news like the above because you know that somewhere, some asshat is using this to say "see, women shouldn't play sports!"

It is so important that young, active women are given all the information so they can be as healthy as possible.
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MissMoneypenny
06/02/09

@AtomiClash: The problem is not the exercise, it's the disordered eating. If you don't eat enough, your bones suffer anyway, but if you get so thin that you have hormonal changes (ie, amenorrhea) then you lose bone mass faster anyway, as you would in menopause. It's unfortunate that a lot of information for athletic women is actually aimed at losing weight, rather than keeping your body in top condition.
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HarpMadness
06/02/09

@MissMoneypenny: That's true, but I also have to say that AtomicCrash has a point in that some people will always use this sort of information as "proof" that women shouldn't be active.

I think your point is what we need to stress -- it's not the exercise, it's the disordered eating.
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Trulymadlyme
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
All of the ex-dancers I know say the effect of being a ballerina was way worse on a person's body than say playing football & rugby.
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LucilleMcGillicuddy
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
Dancers are the most disordered eaters I have ever encountered. I can't recall knowing a single one who didn't have a problem. A couple were eventually hospitalized. It seems so completely part of the dance culture, is there anything to be done?
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wooden_shoes
06/02/09

@LucilleMcGillicuddy: Hi, former dancer here, 20 odd years under my belt in ballet and not a single problem with disordered eating. I also have never been hospitalized...There is a call for dancers, like models, to be super skinny, but not all of them are that way via poor health practices.
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vamusical
06/02/09

@LucilleMcGillicuddy: You clearly haven't encountered many male wrestlers.
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LucilleMcGillicuddy
06/02/09

@wooden_shoes: I'm so glad to hear that. I hope there are many more you and less of the ones I knew.
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PhillyLass
06/02/09

@LucilleMcGillicuddy: I remember this tragic story was all over the Boston papers back when I was in college:

[www.sfgate.com]

Awful.
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Magnakai Haaskivi
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
I'm trying to find a way to wonder if this issue is inherent only to female athletes without coming off as sexist. I think the things many athletes put themselves through are things that, in normal social contexts, we'd see as disordered or compulsive behaviors; are ballerinas so outside the norm on that?
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Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd)
06/02/09

@Magnakai Haaskivi: Male athletes are rarely required to both perform at a high level and also have very small bodies. I think these dual requirements are unique to a lot of female athletic pursuits.
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Magnakai Haaskivi
06/02/09

@Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd): That's a good point, I hadn't thought of it that way.
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Majrhoulihan
06/02/09

@Magnakai Haaskivi: Ballerinas especially. Whenever I go to the ballet I marvel at how strong those dancers legs are, and how tiny their muscles look.
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tscheese
06/02/09

@Magnakai Haaskivi: Oh, I don't think this is a sexist question at all--I've known active young men (mostly in college athletics back when I was in undergrad) who exhibited a lot of behaviors that might be considered disordered too. Like severe calorie restriction, constant weighing, subsisting solely on protein shakes. It isn't just women who feel these pressures.

On a sheerly physiological level--and this isn't meant to be a "I Have It Worse Than You Do" contest--I do think some of these physical/sociological issues may be harder on women, since amenorrhea only affects women, and on average I think women are more prone to problems with bone density. And I do think women face a different set of social pressures in general when it comes to eating disorders and weight management.

It certainly isn't only females who face these troubles in intense physical pursuits like athletics and dance, but I do think the issues are different for women.
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Triphena
06/02/09

@Benevolent_Dictatrix (patently absurd): This is a good point, but would it be fair then to consider how many male athletes are asked to be unnaturally large for their given sports? I feel like Magnakai has a really good point- at a certain level, many athletes do, in some way, exercise a level of control over their bodies that would in any other situation be seen as unhealthy or do things to themselves that in the long run will be harmful to their bodies.
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HarpMadness
06/02/09

@Triphena: And I suppose the differing "ideals" for men might be what contributes to steroid abuse. So, I guess it's sort of two sides of the same coin -- it just plays out differently (and I would still say there is more "wiggle room" for men than for women) for men and women. It's like it's not just good enough to be really good at the physicality of whatever you're doing -- you have to look a specific way while doing it.
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mommy_dearest
06/02/09

@Magnakai Haaskivi: I think it is ok to look at a specific subset of athletes for a study. There have also been studies looking at the dangers of behaviors encouraged in male sports, like steroid use. Every study can't encompass every athlete, and as long as it doesn't claim that only these women face problems, it should be acceptable.
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SarahMC
06/02/09

In reply to Ballerinas, Female Athletes Face Bone, Heart Risks Of Much Older Women
Lucky for me, my lifestyle is sedentary.
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