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applejuice
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter
This must be why Oprah is such a bad judge of people. Sure, "The Secret" made her one of the richest people on earth, but it also made her think Dr Phil, Rachel Ray and James Frey were all good ideas. You be the judge. #emotions
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girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter

Do you know what I also just realized? This totally explains why I have gotten zero work done and committed like twenty boneheaded incidents of moronism since we got our new kitten on Friday. I'm totally being serious; he just makes me giddy and silly and full of delight, and I can't focus on anything. KITTY.

His name is Oliver. Ain't he cute? #emotions
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hovy
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter

I've always maintained that he was the smartest bear around, and not that glutton, happy-go-lucky prick Yogi. #emotions
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redqueenmeg
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter
This explains why my husband has been such a grouch the past three days working on a project for grad school. #emotions
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Svenskasweetie
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter
I wonder how these findings jibe with findings that fear (as opposed to sadness, which is the emotion that they were apparently trying to provoke in this study) leads to people relying more pre-existing frames (i.e, that they rely more on stereotypes)? Since in real life people are likely to experience multiple "negative" emotions simultaneously I wonder how they interact. Just a ponder ... #emotions
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yinyang
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter
I believe in the power of negative thinking. If you believe the worst possible scenario will happen, things always turn out better than you expect. #emotions
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madeofawesome
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter
So this explains why when I'm pissed I can remember every single shitty thing you've ever done to me. Ever.

My negativity is a gift. #emotions
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Questioning Everything
11/03/09

@madeofawesome: The gift that keeps on giving. #emotions
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KookyMonster
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter
This reminds me of learning about depressive reality, the tendency for people with depression to more accurately assess their abilities and the likelihood of success. It makes sense to me, I do a way better job at school and my part-time waitressing job when I'm pissed off and want to get the hell out of there than when I'm having a good time. #emotions
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Jack_Burton
11/03/09

@KookyMonster: You might enjoy (or not) this tidbit of depression-coverage... [www.newsweek.com]

Warning - article mentions evolutionary psych. #emotions
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
11/03/09

@KookyMonster: I've read that.
I believe in it.

(Although people who specialize in denial -- a surprisingly substantial percentage of the culture -- may not want to hear what you have to say. Then you are excoriated for being, on good days, the killjoy, and on bad days, the crazy person who should never be believed, even if you turn out to be correct. I've thought about changing my name to Cassandra since I read that myth when I was about nine.) #emotions
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KookyMonster
11/03/09

@Jack_Burton: Ooooh I am such a nerd, I love it. I'm meh on the evolutionary psych part of it but I am on a life long crusade to convince others that my mood swings aren't going to end my world. #emotions
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girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter
This might open up a can of worms nobody wants to touch, but has it seemed to anyone else that the people you meet who are generally sunny-- maybe not genuinely so, but the ones who cling to the stubborn insistence that everything is fine-- tend to be socially conservative? My thinking is going along the lines of "everything's great therefore NOTHING SHOULD EVER CHANGE and people who want to change things are mean and evil" kinds of people, the end result of which might be... do we now have scientific proof that conservatives are stupid? #emotions
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ucelluccia
11/03/09

@girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus: I think that's too broad of a generalization. I know many people of the sunny type, and they're evenly split between social liberals and conservatives. #emotions
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J.D.Regent
11/03/09

@girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus: I think there is something to that because to be conservative suggests that you think things are good they way they are, you want to conserve what is here, whereas progressive people want change....but change implies that something is bad and needs fixing. I do think that is part of the reason America has this weird conservative streak. It's linked in with our relentless individualism and insistence on positivity. #emotions
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cellocurve
11/03/09

@girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus: I wouldn't make that generalization either -- I might say that people who cling to positivity to the point of being deluded are more the issue -- but that's different to me than people who are honestly sunny and optimistic. #emotions
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Questioning Everything
11/03/09

@girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus: YES! This is my sister. The two of us together is like trying to mix oil and water.

Seriously, I think that there have been some studies on liberal and conservative thinking that are sorta jive with this.
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Edited by Questioning Everything at 11/03/09 10:21 AM

girlscoutcookie is back from hiatus
11/03/09

@cellocurve: I think that's actually what I meant to be saying. It's early for me and I'm trying to finish a paper so I probably left some words out. My thing was more like, not necessarily that happy people tend to be conservative, but that conservative people trend (at least among the ones I know) as desperate Pollyannas who don't really look at anything with clear eyes because that would involve recognizing that their vision of "real America" or "the good old days" or "the way things ought to be" is actually horribly flawed, so they cling to a kind of manic state instead of looking at the world realistically. Or something. I'm really incoherent this morning, and I'm sorry about that. #emotions
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tldr
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter
Hey, this article makes me feel good. OH SHIT. #emotions
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HarpMadness
11/03/09

@tldr: You are totally screwed now. #emotions
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braak: You are, as usual, completely correct.
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter
Of course, none of this matters. Yes, a negative mood might make your more critical, more skeptical, more open to complexity.

But since when as that been a desirable characteristic in America? Ours is a culture based on bull-headed surety--three hundred million people who are certain they'll get to the top if they only just believe, and never give an ounce of thought to whether or not they'll actually do a good job when they get there.

I dunno, maybe everywhere it's like that. I hear the Fins are a pretty miserable people, though. #emotions
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CrapCommentFromADude
11/03/09

@braak: I see quite the opposite; I look around me [in California, though less so when I'm in DC] and I see plenty of people who use a slightly jaded, affected negativity as a way to avoid seriously confronting their own strengths and weaknesses, taking [the good sort of] risks, and generally accepting the degree of control that they *do* have over their own circumstances. It tends to lead to a false sense of superiority of the sort you can see in spades on this thread. Those of us with more positive thinking tend to be working hard to modify their own behaviors, perfect themselves, live life more rigorously.

Rampant stereotyping? Sure, but that seems to be de rigueur in this thread, so long as we're talking about how we're all so much better than *those* people. #emotions
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braak promoted this comment

braak: You are, as usual, completely correct.
11/03/09

@CrapCommentFromADude: I'm unclear here; is your argument in response to an assertion that I made? That "cynicism"--rather than "pragmatism," for instance, or "realism"--is implicitly good, and that positivism is inherently bad?

Also, I wouldn't characterize your statement as rampant stereotyping at all. I'd say it was anecdotal, and probably invalid due to insufficient sample-size. #emotions
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CrapCommentFromADude
11/03/09

@braak: "I'm unclear here; is your argument in response to an assertion that I made? "

Yes, it's in response to this:

"But since when as that been a desirable characteristic in America? Ours is a culture based on bull-headed surety--three hundred million people who are certain they'll get to the top if they only just believe, and never give an ounce of thought to whether or not they'll actually do a good job when they get there." #emotions
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TheFormerJuneBronson
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter
I bet this is a really common personality trait for people who work in law enforcement.

I read Ehrenreich's book over the weekend, and thought it was genius. People who tend to conflate positivity with happiness or satisfaction, and "negativity" with depression or unhappiness or unproductiveness should really read it. It's a good deal more complex than that. And it seems quite obvious to me that positivity as we now understand it has the capacity to render people incapable of critical thought. It is, in practice and in theory, thought-terminating. Real growth and development comes out of dissatisfaction, with an ability to identify and solve problems, to think analytically. Until we understand how positivity is used to prevent us from upsetting the apple cart, so to speak, we're not going to be able to move forward. #emotions
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J.D.Regent
11/03/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: it's fascist and conformist if you ask me. but hey, maybe i'm just depressed. #emotions
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Edited by J.D.Regent at 11/03/09 10:10 AM J.D.Regent was starred J.D.Regent was unstarred

HarpMadness
11/03/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: I haven't read the book, but I have thought for a long time that the specific way the "possitive thinking" is being pushed currently serves the same purpose as Christianity did in the past. Back in the day, religion was used as a way to keep the horribly downtrodden poor feel that their suffering would be rewarded in the afterlife in order to stop them from storming the castle, where all the good stuff was. I sort of see this as functioning in the same way (and I'm talking, "THE SECRET" type stuff, not just "don't let the bastards get you down" stuff, which I think is a good thing) in that people are told they have control, they have a way to make their lives better so there's that hope. Just like the lottery. As long as people think they might get to the top, they're less likely to want to substantially change the system. #emotions
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Gavagirl
11/03/09

@HarpMadness: YES. We're all being trained to see the existing power structures as "just the way the world works", and chasing mostly imaginary carrots thinking they'll be worth something once we catch them. Then when we still find ourselves screwed, out comes another little imaginary carrot to chase. It's an excellent distraction from social activism (or even basic community involvement, for a lot of people). #emotions
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CrapCommentFromADude
11/03/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: That's funny! It's quote obvious to me that negativity "has the capacity to render people incapable of critical thought" as well.

Could it be that you're trying to take a universal (people being stupid at times) and trying to pin it on the people you don't identify with? #emotions
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TheFormerJuneBronson
11/03/09

@CrapCommentFromADude: No. I'm certainly not trying to do that. I think your claim that I don't identify with positive people is specious. And I never said that negativity couldn't be thought-terminating. I do assert, however, that positivity is not commonly recognized as thought-terminating, and that it can certainly be, both as an internal and an external motivation. #emotions
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TheFormerJuneBronson
11/03/09

@HarpMadness: You should read it--it's about exactly what you're talking about. She talks about "The Secret" at length.

And I agree that there are at least two different kinds of "positivity," and that often gets lost in the discussion, particularly by critics who feel the book attacks some of their most dearly-held beliefs. As a lifelong depressive, I'm certainly familiar with positive thinking and its purported powers. I contend, however, that what I do to get myself out of bed in the morning is absolutely not the same thing as what motivational speakers of this sort are shilling, or what companies that use these techniques are trying to accomplish. #emotions
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CrapCommentFromADude
11/03/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: That's funny. I think we're awash in commentary and media that's all about taking happy people down a notch (Easiest way to make a character in a sitcom or movie be the easy butt of jokes, the pain in the ass that the character we all identify with is supposed to hate? Make them overly happy.), and that the value of happiness is seriously undersold.

You could probably construct a paragraph in direct opposition to the above, referencing The Secret, Suze Orman, self-help gurus, etc. It's almost like we both tend to notice the things that stick in our proverbial craw more, regardless of whether or not they're more prevalent... #emotions
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HarpMadness
11/03/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: @CrapCommentFromADude: I would say, building on both comments, that BOTH ways can be defeating if taken to extremes. I know many people who take the "it's hopeless, there's nothing we can do, we might as well give up" road. That also does not serve the interests of helping others or general social justice (or yourself or anything, really).

Not to speak for TheFormerJB, but I think the reason that some of us are so glad to see some people starting to talk about the other side of all this "positive thinking" is that it has been being presented and is generally thought of as being at worse harmless, and I don't think it is. #emotions
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TheFormerJuneBronson
11/03/09

@CrapCommentFromADude: To argue existence is not to argue prevalence. I don't especially care about prevalence. #emotions
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TheFormerJuneBronson
11/03/09

@HarpMadness: I agree, and also agree with your conclusion. There are negative things about positivity, and positive things about negativity. This is all a good deal more complex than it is generally presented in popular culture. #emotions
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
11/03/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: "And it seems quite obvious to me that positivity as we now understand it has the capacity to render people incapable of critical thought."

Maybe that's why a certain type of man is only interested in a woman who can be "sunny all the time".
She can never turn her critical eye on any BS aspects of his behavior if she doesn't even have one. #emotions
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TheFormerJuneBronson
11/03/09

@Rooo sez BISH PLZ: On this topic, I'm always reminded of that ridiculous "wingwoman" thing we discussed a few months ago. No Debbie Downers! #emotions
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
11/03/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: Blech.
Don't get me started. Either on that or that the same "ethic" seems to be promoted at work that's supposed to be the credo of the cheery wingwoman.
*rolleyes*
And they say we're in a 'post-feminist' culture now. Okay! #emotions
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Faster Pussycat
11/03/09

@Rooo sez BISH PLZ: My lack of dating success has suddenly been made clear. #emotions
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PaigeTurner
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter
Take that, Journal of Happiness Studies! #emotions
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wtfox?!
11/03/09

@lolabee: I wonder if the JHS editorial board is going to go off and sulk now, or if they'll cheer themselves up with the power of positive thinking? #emotions
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DinaRonson : Elizabeth Cady Stanton
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter
"Fuck that"; Einstein.
"Get me a drink!"; Mark Twain #emotions
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SarahMC
11/03/09

In reply to Study: Feeling Bad Can Make You Smarter
I think more critical, less gullible, generally more intelligent people tend to be more "negative" (i.e. realistic) than their "positive" counterparts, rather than the other way around. #emotions
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Questioning Everything
11/03/09

@SarahMC: I totally agree. Maybe I'm biased because that's how I tend to be, but I'm sure I'm right. I used to feel that I was always looked at as the "negative one" because I didn't just take things or actions at face value. I finally realized that in time, my cautious ways were often right on the money. #emotions
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TheFormerJuneBronson
11/03/09

@SarahMC: I agree completely, and I'm really annoyed when "bad mood" is conflated with "depression." Anyone who's suffered from depression knows that it's more than a bad mood--so called--in a healthy person, and it's more than "negative thoughts." That kind of commentary hurts the cause of depressives more than this kind of study. Nowhere in the article is it said that depression is good for these things. #emotions
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braak: You are, as usual, completely correct.
11/03/09

@SarahMC: Well, and is this just a question of semantic drift? Like, our culture has been so besoaked in positive thinking now that regular, ordinary skepticism gets qualified as "negative," without actually being negative negative? #emotions
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wtfox?!
11/03/09

@braak: Yes, yes, I think you would be right on that one--people are much, much more interested in contemplating realities other than this one.

Our society really doesn't like people harshing its vibe. This is probably why I can't stand our society. #emotions
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History Major
11/03/09

@SarahMC: Whoa SarahMC have you been stalking my facebook? A guy messaged me "I think you are a really negative person" and when I asked him why he said just look at you status messages. I had recently made a post about the need for people to take a humanities course before considering themselves christian experts and that arguing about religion with people who haven't taken a basic humanities course is kind of stupid. Of course he became majorly pissed. I also encouraged some Biology majors on my friends list to think about becoming Abortion doctors which he thought was very negative of me. I said it's important to regard an unborn fetus as just that a fetus and not a baby/newborn. Basically being open minded is negative? #emotions
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SarahMC
11/03/09

@History Major: I don't think so but I did just post this on my own Facebook, hehe!
What a jackass that guy is. What did you say to him? If you want me to begin Facebook stalking you I am not averse to schooling my friends' idiotic Facebook friends in comments. :) #emotions
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History Major
11/03/09

@SarahMC: I just told him that maybe since we have different world views that what you consider negative is just me being critical. But then he said he usually likes to win debates but that he didn't feel our particular one was worth it? #emotions
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braak: You are, as usual, completely correct.
11/03/09

@History Major: "That is because you are delusional. Also: you don't usually win debates--you imagine you win debates. Because you are delusional." #emotions
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CrapCommentFromADude
11/03/09

@SarahMC: "I think more critical, less gullible, generally more intelligent people tend to be more "negative" (i.e. realistic) than their "positive" counterparts, rather than the other way around."

I think that's true that people often construct this self-image for themselves, as one of the chosen few who "really get it" unlike the rest of the drones/sheeple/sunny happy idiots/Others.

Whether or not this actually holds true in practice is an open question.

When you're a negative person, the stupid happy people stick out to you more.

I'm a positive person; the stupid unhappy people stick out to me more.

When you're a hammer, everything looks like a... #emotions
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SarahMC
11/03/09

@CrapCommentFromADude: ...penis? #emotions
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CrapCommentFromADude
11/03/09

@SarahMC: :D #emotions
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
11/03/09

@WashingMyHair: Just wait till they start calling you Cassandra. #emotions
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