Now, I'm not blaming the rapist or anything, but he did make several HUGE mistakes that night that could have decreased his chances of raping someone. First, he went to a party, where he knew there were going to be women who had been drinking. Second, he led one of those women to believe that he wouldn't rape her, and last, once he was alone with her he chose to go against her wishes and raped her anyway.
It's only natural for young women to go out and get drunk at parties; you'll never be able to stop all of them. So it's very bad judgment for any man to go to a party if he thinks he might be capable of raping someone while there. We need to focus on teaching men what they can do to avoid assaulting anyone.
I know it's hard to tell young men that all women are potential victims and that therefore they should stay away from all of them, but that's the price you have to pay to stay safe. Most women out there are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves, but it's the few who might be led to trust you that you have to watch out for. Since there is no way to distinguish between the women who won't and the women who will trust you, you just need to avoid them all.
I understand that believing there was nothing he could have done can help a rapist to feel better about himself; the fact is, that if he'd taken better precautions, he could have walked away a non-rapist.
Um, if people are saying that frat parties are basically super-rapey places that girls should KNOW to avoid...then....shouldn't we be talking about abolishing frat houses, and not how this poor girl should have known better?
Also, you can avoid frat houses and drinking as much as you want, but this will not (statistically) lessen your chances of being raped.
@kat4684: THIS. I avoid frat houses because those boys are boring. Not because they're "likely" to rape me. I feel weird defending them because they're annoying, but this generalization is unfair to bros everywhere, as well as the victim. And you raise an excellent point -- if frat houses are the devil's playground, as this woman implies, why don't we abolish them instead of jumping on this poor girl? Oh, that's right, cuz by and large they are not.
I went to plenty of frat parties in college, and I drank beer there, and I went to guys' rooms to talk--really! that's all!--and nobody *ever* tried to push anything on me. Was I lucky? Sure. I wish everyone was.
Are there things you can do to possibly reduce the risk of some deranged, likely violent asshole raping you? Yes, there are a lot of things you can do, ladies. If only we're proactive, we can prevent rape! We couldn't possibly think of getting rid of the deranged, violent assholes altogether, so let's ee what we can do!
1) Stop bathing. Rapists don't like natural odours.
2) Deliberately contract STDs with obvious physical symptoms. Don't treat them. No one likes the herp! That'll keep them away.
3) Wear sweatpants, at all times - preferably several pairs at once. You're asking for it only wearing one layer - don't make it so easy for them. (use this in conjunction with no. 1, so that the sweatpants are fragrant)
4) Tape down your breasts. Or at least wear a couple of sports bras. Wearing breasts naturally (notice I don't say your breasts - they're not really yours if we're honest) is an invitation to violence.
5) Don't ever have sex with anyone. Once you've had sex once, it's unlikely you could seriously say no to sex in the future. If you've had sex before, you want it again, anywhere, anytime, with anyone!
6) Don't leave the house, and lock the doors. Once you go out in public, your body is fair game. Be safe!
7) Get rid of your vagina. Ask your doctor.
This is what logically flows from Dickinson's heartfelt, empathetic advice! Let's not stop with not drinking and not going into rooms with people, we have to commit!
Seriously, though, the sad part is that this is pretty much the attitude our culture projects in regards to violence against women. Here's the morality tale of a woman getting beaten/raped--and here's what you should "learn" from it.
Um, how about teaching men not to be abusive, callous, pricks? How about laboring to change the standard practices and prerogatives of our justive system and the attitudes of our culture as a whole?
Oh, nevermind--it is and always has been easier to force women into life choices based upon fear and self-blame.
Oh jeez. There's a difference between engaging in knowingly risky behavior (and there's no indication that that's what this girl did anyway) and blaming a victim for the existence of those risks.
I like how Amy points out that the guy was likely drunk too, as if that makes it excusable, because if someone was drunk when they murdered someone or got in that wreck or hit that guy, the judge would go "Ohhhh, you were drunk. Nevermind, you can go now."
@cailizma: If you are a drunk man, it's not your fault that you rape someone; if you are a drunk woman, it's partly your fault if you are raped. LOGIC FAIL.
@cailizma: Because rape isn't a choice or a deliberate action: it's a bodily function, like throwing up on someone because you drank too much. Which is also embarrassing, especially if you've "done it before".
Something similar happened to me in the 70s... when 'no' didn't work, a heavy blunt made my point for me. It was a really sad, scary experience -- even worse was, the next morning, ALL my women friends preached to me the first four paragraphs of Dickinson's advice, almost word for word. Expecting the guy to take responsibility nevah woulda happened in those days, ladies.
Reflecting on the incident from a distance of 30 years (which still haunts me for a variety of reasons), I still believe that "taking necessary safety precautions" includes avoiding risky behavior, an example of which is getting drunk at a frat house and going up to a room alone with someone. Or just getting drunk enough to wonder, the next morning, what really happened the night before.
@BoxMeowBox: I wonder how much of what your women friends were doing was motivated by this weird recognition that it's just a matter of luck when a man rapes a woman. I mean, if he doesn't rape one woman, he'll rape another---so if he rapes you, they're spared.
@Ginmar Rienne: I thought the gist was that any woman who drinks and doesn't get raped should count her lucky stars and that no man can be trusted to resist his base impulses ever.
Oh for the fuck of shit. I'm so fucking tired of this crap. Look, if you don't know how to respond to a friend, family member, co-worker, person who asked for advice in this situation: Let them know that you don't know. And then try to refer them to people or organizations that do (RAINN, the police, campus counseling, all would have been great if they had been mentioned as a resource, rather than an afterthought to the victim blaming). I was an RA and in our training it was stressed that you cannot make light of the victim's situation and you cannot tell them what they did wrong, should do, etc. Their choice has already been violated, and it's your job to provide options to them and to be there for them. Not to judge them because they had the gall to go to a frat party (like most people in college) or drink too much (like many college students) or talk to a member of the opposite sex (again like most people in college) or you know...be born with a vagina (hm, that applies to 50% of the population and 60% of the population on most college campuses).
In northern British Columbia there is a stretch of highway where women go missing, mostly aboriginal woman who historically walk where they need to go. Non aboriginal women go missing there as well, the majority of women on the highway are aboriginal. There doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency from government or law enforcement. Oh, there's a task force, I think, but nothing has changed. Women still go missing, very few of their bodies are found and certainly the perpetrator is still out there.
Recently there was a story on local public (liberal) radio about the highway aka The Highway of Tears. The feedback from listeners really upset me. The majority who called in were women and their responses collectively -- how stupid these women are, thinking they can walk on a highway alone and survive. I cried for these women who are gone and their families who miss them and for the daughters of the women and men calling in who think that it's normal to assume a woman alone is a justified target.
It normalizes and justifies predation, why people can't see that is beyond me.
One thing that's incredibly annoying is when people tut tut and go, "Well, I'm not saying it to this victim, I'm saying it for all the people reading." Because you're stupid, goes the sub conscious, except it's not so sub. You don't know that getting drunk at parties is absolutely forbidden if you're a girl! That would make this some kind of Taliban-like country, except, you know, it's not like a law or anything, so quit bitching and dig out the long skirts. Just some advice, not an order, but if you get raped, well---nobody's going to be surprised, if you know what I mean. See? Total freedom! As long as you abide by stereotypes for your own good.
Look, the world is an unfair place, okay? That means bad things happen to good people and that sometimes there's just not one damned thing you can do to avoid it. Deal with it in some other way by blaming good people for doing something wrong.
And...there was something else I was going to say, but here's this, addressed to guys: You know what it means when girls get drunk around you? It's a compliment and it takes courage besides. A woman who goes to parties with guys, etc.,----she doesn't believe guys are animals. I don't know why so many guys use that as an excuse. "I'm an animal." Well, if you are get to the barn. Can't have it both ways.
Getting drunk, going to parties, flirting, etc., etc., ----these are harmless activities. Or they should be and they could be if we took rape seriously.
@Ginmar Rienne: So much word. I wish people would wake up and realize that you can "other" rape as much as you want, but that will not keep it from happening to you or your loved ones. In fact, by othering rape you are collectively making it harder to prosecute and heal should you or a loved one be raped. Bad shit happens to good people. That's life. Trying to turn good people into people "deserving" of the punishment of rape or illness or whatever doesn't make the threat of life any less powerful-it just makes you a delusional asshole. And can we please stop focusing on women who are rape victims? I mean....if you want to end hunger, you don't tell starving kids to stop "being so hungry" or "eat a damn sandwhich". If you want to stop illness you don't tell people to stop getting sick. You try and fix the causes of the problems and the major players. So I have trouble understanding why people feel that in order to end rape we need to focus on women, instead of men (who are the ones usually committing rape).
@5ft of fury: That is brilliant, especially the part about ending hunger by telling people to go get a sandwich. In fact, some people do in fact have that exact attitude toward hunger.
Wow. I'm 43 fucking years old and we are still having the same discussion we were having back when I was in college. "One day, in the not-so-distant utopia where you'll be making equal pay for equal work, things will be better -- but for now, girls, it's up to you to remember that all men are sexual predators and it's up to you to avoid any situation -- including walking to your car in the dark or studying alone in lonely parts of the library! -- where something bad could happen to you. Because remember, if something bad does happen it's ALWAYS partly your fault!"
And then I read this on Jezebel and there are STILL PLENTY of people apologizing for criminal behavior, STILL saying that men just haven't had enough time to learn that no means no -- and that someday maybe things will be better -- but for now, it's up to us girls to remember that all men are sexual predators.
In 23 years nothing has changed. What a bill of goods to keep selling us women -- and for women to keep buying.
@VeronicaPeriphetes: Well, not all of us, because like you said, some of us have seen this song and dance before. But, yes, it's like...not being raped is too much to ask?
@VeronicaPeriphetes: I thought I was the only one who wondered if things were moving backward. I was a little kid during the Seventies, when it seemed people actually gave a shit about gender roles, and then it seems to have rolled back down hill ever since.
@VeronicaPeriphetes: 30-something years ago, when I first started reading about feminism in books directed at young girls and teens, I just assumed that there would be equality by the time I grew up. I have now given up on seeing any semblance of it in my lifetime - not if I live to be 100.
@Ginmar Rienne: Have you read Backlash by Susan Faludi? It explains exactly how and why we started going backwards in the 80s, and her argument is supported by so much research - all of which is referenced - it's pretty hard to argue with. It's a work of genius and every woman should read it. Life-changing.
@Diziet_Sma: That was one of the very first genuinely feminist books I read. It was so difficult to get to that point, to add up the evidence and think, "You know, people really hate women and that's not okay." I felt so so alone and then I found I wasn't!
@Ginmar Rienne: Exactly - it was one of the first I read, too. It was a real epiphany: all these little irritants suddenly started to fall into a pattern and form the big picture. And then it all seems so bloody obvious. The biggest headfuck is when you start seeing how the patriarchy has warped your own attitudes, and that's when you realize it's basically going to be a lifelong job to correct it in yourself, let alone the people around you. Still, we must soldier on!
I'm quoting Melissa from Shakesville here, because she says it better than anyone:
"Here's the thing about rapists: They rape people. They rape people who are strong and people who are weak, people who are smart and people who are dumb, people who fight back and people who submit just to get it over with, people who are sluts and people who are prudes, people who are rich and people who are poor, people who are tall and people who are short, people who are fat and people who are thin, people who are blind and people who are sighted, people who are deaf and people who can hear, people of every race and shape and size and ability and circumstance. The only thing that the victim of every rapist shares in common is the bad fucking luck of being in the presence of a rapist.
"...Victim-blaming is based on the damnably fucked-up notion that people (and women in particular) allow themselves to be victimized by virtue of carelessness or stupidity, and they need to be warned and educated and lectured and hectored and cajoled and shamed into never being victims (again).
"No.
"Our culture creates rapists—and they create victims. No one has ever been a victim of rape, until they had the bad fucking luck of being in the presence of a rapist."
So sad, a man feels like he must rape at the first opportunity. The man can't just recline and be comfortable with that. Something in our culture, something in our beer, something called trust has disappeared. Men will cheat and lie for sex. Post that in every campus in America.
@george.dawson: Well, apparently, these guys can't see women as anything but sex toys whose sole purpose is to provide sex.
This is not a recent development---if you're a woman. We've been told for eons that rape is our job to prevent, as if rape is just a fact of a woman's life, like rain or snow, and if you don't---what's the phrase?---take common, ordinary precautions then you have only yourself to blame for when you get a cold. I mean, it's not too much to ask to think that people should wear coats and boots, right? So why are all you gals bitching?
Well, here's the thing: men are not some force of nature, much as some of them would like to think so. They are not immune to laws and rules. They do not get to do as they wish, and expect that women navigate around them, like ships in rocky seas.
When someone advises a woman to take precautions to protect herself against certain areas where men are likely to rape her, it's an endorsement of passivity in the face of rapists. It's letting them off the hook while placing women squarely on it---not for what women did, but for what men did, and what men did to women. That's like blame, cubed or something.
And this is why I get so angry at the hint of victim-blaming: women get blamed for everything, and before we can even learn about life, we have to fight back against that tendency to try and shed some light.
@george.dawson: It's entitlement. They think they can fuck whomever they want simply because it fulfills a naturally urge. And god forbid they go against a natural urge. Or god forbid they are held responsible for their emotions or actions.
So apparently, the key to never getting raped is to never go to frat parties in college and never sip alcohol.
This is about as ridiculous as advising college kids that abstinence is the way to go. Why should women be held back from having a fun college experience?
11/30/09
It's only natural for young women to go out and get drunk at parties; you'll never be able to stop all of them. So it's very bad judgment for any man to go to a party if he thinks he might be capable of raping someone while there. We need to focus on teaching men what they can do to avoid assaulting anyone.
I know it's hard to tell young men that all women are potential victims and that therefore they should stay away from all of them, but that's the price you have to pay to stay safe. Most women out there are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves, but it's the few who might be led to trust you that you have to watch out for. Since there is no way to distinguish between the women who won't and the women who will trust you, you just need to avoid them all.
I understand that believing there was nothing he could have done can help a rapist to feel better about himself; the fact is, that if he'd taken better precautions, he could have walked away a non-rapist.
11/30/09
Also, you can avoid frat houses and drinking as much as you want, but this will not (statistically) lessen your chances of being raped.
12/07/09
11/30/09
I went to plenty of frat parties in college, and I drank beer there, and I went to guys' rooms to talk--really! that's all!--and nobody *ever* tried to push anything on me. Was I lucky? Sure. I wish everyone was.
11/30/09
1) Stop bathing. Rapists don't like natural odours.
2) Deliberately contract STDs with obvious physical symptoms. Don't treat them. No one likes the herp! That'll keep them away.
3) Wear sweatpants, at all times - preferably several pairs at once. You're asking for it only wearing one layer - don't make it so easy for them. (use this in conjunction with no. 1, so that the sweatpants are fragrant)
4) Tape down your breasts. Or at least wear a couple of sports bras. Wearing breasts naturally (notice I don't say your breasts - they're not really yours if we're honest) is an invitation to violence.
5) Don't ever have sex with anyone. Once you've had sex once, it's unlikely you could seriously say no to sex in the future. If you've had sex before, you want it again, anywhere, anytime, with anyone!
6) Don't leave the house, and lock the doors. Once you go out in public, your body is fair game. Be safe!
7) Get rid of your vagina. Ask your doctor.
This is what logically flows from Dickinson's heartfelt, empathetic advice! Let's not stop with not drinking and not going into rooms with people, we have to commit!
11/30/09
Seriously, though, the sad part is that this is pretty much the attitude our culture projects in regards to violence against women. Here's the morality tale of a woman getting beaten/raped--and here's what you should "learn" from it.
Um, how about teaching men not to be abusive, callous, pricks? How about laboring to change the standard practices and prerogatives of our justive system and the attitudes of our culture as a whole?
Oh, nevermind--it is and always has been easier to force women into life choices based upon fear and self-blame.
11/30/09
11/29/09
11/30/09
11/30/09
11/29/09
Reflecting on the incident from a distance of 30 years (which still haunts me for a variety of reasons), I still believe that "taking necessary safety precautions" includes avoiding risky behavior, an example of which is getting drunk at a frat house and going up to a room alone with someone. Or just getting drunk enough to wonder, the next morning, what really happened the night before.
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
Recently there was a story on local public (liberal) radio about the highway aka The Highway of Tears. The feedback from listeners really upset me. The majority who called in were women and their responses collectively -- how stupid these women are, thinking they can walk on a highway alone and survive. I cried for these women who are gone and their families who miss them and for the daughters of the women and men calling in who think that it's normal to assume a woman alone is a justified target.
It normalizes and justifies predation, why people can't see that is beyond me.
11/29/09
[www.peaceworkmagazine.org]
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
Look, the world is an unfair place, okay? That means bad things happen to good people and that sometimes there's just not one damned thing you can do to avoid it. Deal with it in some other way by blaming good people for doing something wrong.
And...there was something else I was going to say, but here's this, addressed to guys: You know what it means when girls get drunk around you? It's a compliment and it takes courage besides. A woman who goes to parties with guys, etc.,----she doesn't believe guys are animals. I don't know why so many guys use that as an excuse. "I'm an animal." Well, if you are get to the barn. Can't have it both ways.
Getting drunk, going to parties, flirting, etc., etc., ----these are harmless activities. Or they should be and they could be if we took rape seriously.
11/29/09
11/29/09
12/01/09
11/29/09
And then I read this on Jezebel and there are STILL PLENTY of people apologizing for criminal behavior, STILL saying that men just haven't had enough time to learn that no means no -- and that someday maybe things will be better -- but for now, it's up to us girls to remember that all men are sexual predators.
In 23 years nothing has changed. What a bill of goods to keep selling us women -- and for women to keep buying.
11/29/09
11/29/09
It is so frustrating to me to see not only a lack of progress on women's issues but an actual regression.
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
"Here's the thing about rapists: They rape people. They rape people who are strong and people who are weak, people who are smart and people who are dumb, people who fight back and people who submit just to get it over with, people who are sluts and people who are prudes, people who are rich and people who are poor, people who are tall and people who are short, people who are fat and people who are thin, people who are blind and people who are sighted, people who are deaf and people who can hear, people of every race and shape and size and ability and circumstance. The only thing that the victim of every rapist shares in common is the bad fucking luck of being in the presence of a rapist.
"...Victim-blaming is based on the damnably fucked-up notion that people (and women in particular) allow themselves to be victimized by virtue of carelessness or stupidity, and they need to be warned and educated and lectured and hectored and cajoled and shamed into never being victims (again).
"No.
"Our culture creates rapists—and they create victims. No one has ever been a victim of rape, until they had the bad fucking luck of being in the presence of a rapist."
[shakespearessister.blogspot.com]
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
This is not a recent development---if you're a woman. We've been told for eons that rape is our job to prevent, as if rape is just a fact of a woman's life, like rain or snow, and if you don't---what's the phrase?---take common, ordinary precautions then you have only yourself to blame for when you get a cold. I mean, it's not too much to ask to think that people should wear coats and boots, right? So why are all you gals bitching?
Well, here's the thing: men are not some force of nature, much as some of them would like to think so. They are not immune to laws and rules. They do not get to do as they wish, and expect that women navigate around them, like ships in rocky seas.
When someone advises a woman to take precautions to protect herself against certain areas where men are likely to rape her, it's an endorsement of passivity in the face of rapists. It's letting them off the hook while placing women squarely on it---not for what women did, but for what men did, and what men did to women. That's like blame, cubed or something.
And this is why I get so angry at the hint of victim-blaming: women get blamed for everything, and before we can even learn about life, we have to fight back against that tendency to try and shed some light.
11/29/09
11/29/09
This is about as ridiculous as advising college kids that abstinence is the way to go. Why should women be held back from having a fun college experience?