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Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced

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labeled
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
This has amused me to no end, mostly because for once I'm completely DOWN a Christian pastor. So, he isn't afraid to bring it up, and isn't afraid to remind people that sex is GOOD for you... hard for me to argue with. And, I'm a goddess-worshipping neo-Pagan.

And I kind of agree with Tucker - the bias is just too tempting for some to pass up. I mean, didn't we see a thread full of people feeling sorry for the "Mommies" who were nearly sexless just yesterday?

My take on his "challenge" is that sometimes you really need to have sex to want sex, and sex is usually a pretty important touchstone within a partnership. Not creepy, not invasive, just a good reminder that part of being a couple usually involves letting someone else in your space (er, ha).
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labeled
11/26/08

@labeled: Down with, that is. Just to avoid any confusion, given the subject.
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funnyface
11/26/08

@labeled: Yeah, I just wish he had discussed it in a more nuanced way (and maybe he did, I haven't seen the sermon). It's certainly true for me (especially in my BC-dampened-libido state) that the more sex I have, the more my sex drive improves. Thus, if I have sex even when I don't exactly feel rarin' to go, pretty soon I DO feel rarin' to go. But doing it because I understand that it's good for me, my sex drive, and my relationship is a whole different shebang than doing it because my pastor said so, or because Jesus wants me to or something.
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raphaela
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
I'm a mellowed out Evangelical who spent a considerable amount of time in the singles group at Ed's church. I'll tell you that most conversations I had with religious women about teh seks ended up with tears. You would be surprised how many religious men withhold sex from their wives--yes, really!--because they believe it makes them holy. You know, ignoring all the scriptures to the contrary. It's pretty shocking the number of men who will use sex as a fasting point.

I get where Ed is going, but sweet mother, the LAST thing I need is another authority figure telling me what to do with my vag. And really, whenever a minister starts telling a congregation how much sex to have and with whom, I start looking for the Kool-Aid. And the door.
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LimitedLiabilityGirl
11/26/08

@raphaela: I'm totally not surprised that people, men in particular, tend to refrain from sex in pursuit of holiness!! I'm not surprised by it AT ALL because it's perfectly in line with the denial of the flesh, of worldliness and worldly involvement, of sins of gluttony and other such "distractions" from holiness, and so on.

It's all nonsense, of course, because even within the Christian belief system, there's more than enough wiggle room to embrace (fnarr fnarr) our human aspects, our CREATED human aspects, and that's part of the potential change in framing that I'm interested in!
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funnyface
11/26/08

@LimitedLiabilityGirl: Plus, in one of the epistles, Paul basically says: don't deprive your spouse of sex except for a short time, by mutual agreement, for the purpose of devoting yourself to prayer. So I mean, there's no real scriptural support for men using sex like a holy weapon. Because ultimately the wife should have veto power, anyway.
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LimitedLiabilityGirl
11/26/08

@funnyface: Ahhhh but you're forgetting that Paul ALSO says, it is better not to marry, so that you may be entirely devoted to Christ. It's kind of a cold comfort that he also said, if you cannot remain single, it is better to marry than to burn with lust, but it's a distant second in his estimation, apparently.

Of course Paul is also an asshole, but let's not get into that.
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funnyface
11/26/08

@LimitedLiabilityGirl Right, but the bottom line remains that if you ARE married, you're not allowed to deprive your spouse of sex.
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I_can_still_pitch
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
If you force yourself or your spouse to have sex every night even if one or both of you aren't in the mood, doesn't it become more of a chore and less of a pleasure? The minute something becomes a job, it ceases to be fun. I see more potential harm than good with this; if you both want to have sex every day, you are probably already doing just that.
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funnyface
11/26/08

@I_can_still_pitch: I totally agree. I had friends who were evangelical and seriously thought they had to have sex every day. The husband once described sex as being "sort of like a shower, something you do every day." To me that sounds awful.
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Jamie Sommers
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
Tucker, Tucker, Tucker. Spoken like a man who isn't getting any ... and not of his choice.
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brendastarlet is on it
11/26/08

@Jamie Sommers: yes, but it was his choice to marry out of school and impregnate his wife multiple times before age 30. Maybe she could use a little help?

[www.people.com]
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I_can_still_pitch
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
The other issue is what does this pastor consider sex? If my wife and I have mutually beneficial oral sex, does that count or is that evil? This pastor is in way over his head, so to speak.
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funnyface
11/26/08

@I_can_still_pitch: Most evangelicals think oral sex is fine, within the bounds of marriage. I'm not an evangelical, but I am a Christian, and I was recently listening to a sermon series on the Song of Solomon (it was a Mark Driscoll series, to cite my sources, and it wasn't the sex advice that ended up pissing me off, ultimately, but his bizarre tirade against stay at home dads). There are some pretty explicit references to oral sex in the poetry of the book, and the pastor I was listening to made it clear that oral sex is, in his view, created by God to be enjoyed by married people.

I for one would be interested in seeing or reading the complete sermon in which this sex advice was given. I don't think we're getting the full context of this challenge. And most of the people interviewed in the NYT seemed to have a positive reaction after the challenge was over.
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I_can_still_pitch
11/26/08

@funnyface: Interesting...
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jigglyball
11/26/08

@I_can_still_pitch: I think oral sex was condemned by the Church because it's non-procreative sex. But if they're endorsing sex as a positive means of pleasure rather than simply procreation, I would imagine that they'd condone oral sex as well.
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funnyface
11/26/08

@jigglyball is ecstatic: Do you mean the Catholic Church? Because non-catholics no longer insist that sex must be both procreative and pleasurable at the same time.
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PilgrimSoul
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
I, for one, am completely shocked to learn that Tucker Carlson is an uninformed asshat.
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cmg
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
dude, i orgasmed PLENTY after my ex and i decided to get divorced. let me tell you that the sex was NOT the problem.
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veronykah
11/26/08

@cmg: And I got along with my ex-BF just peachy, but the sex SUCKED. Fucking him for 30 days in a row wouldn't have changed that.
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MizJenkins
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
People try all sorts of desperate, expensive and downright crazy things in the name of saving their marriages.

It might not work ultimately, but daily sex sounds like something I would want to put fairly high on the list of last-ditch efforts. Teamwork and frequent stress relief seem like two key ingredients in a reconciliation.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
I'm going to have to disagree with the religious women enjoying sex more. I would think they would enjoy it less because they were taught it was dirty, there were so many strict guidelines placed around it, and they never really received any education or enlightenment regarding it.
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inabook
11/26/08

@TheVaginaWig: I think that depends on what you define as religious. I'm religous, I like sex, I wasn't taught it was dirty (I was taught that I should wait till marriage, but whatever, that was at least acknowledged as not actually being practical), and I did recieve bits of educaiton and enlightenment here, though the lack of further education and such is more related to my parents inability to discuss anything "serious" with the chilluns than it is general prudeishness.
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I_can_still_pitch
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
This sums it up:

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veronykah
11/26/08

@I_can_still_pitch: So well said.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
Who would actually have sex with a man wearing that outfit?
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Never_Nude
11/26/08

@TheVaginaWig: At least he ditched the bowtie. Baby steps.
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I believe in peace, bitch
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
Religious women better sex my ass. I grew up in a religious community and all my girlfriends are so confused over sex. Most can't have orgasms. Religion teaches women that only dirty girls have sex before marriage, and then after marriage we're supposed to flip a switch and be good little wives who have sex every day. A better challenge would be: bring your wife to orgasm seven days in a row. Some married religious women I know have never ever had one, through masturbation or sex.
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inabook
11/26/08

@i_believe_in_peace_bitch: Lack of orgasms might be an actual phsyical issue, not an attitude-toward sex issue. Sex can be enjoyable without orgasms-- It doesn't need to be a means to an end, it can be an end in and of itself.
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I_can_still_pitch
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
Guess what - most stupid and poor people hate Evangelicals too. In fact, just about everyone who is not an Evangelical hates Evangelicals. Could it possibly be because the Evangelicals bring it on themselves?
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PaintedTrollop
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
Hmmm.....evangelicals have a higher divorce rate than anyone - so perhaps they're having all that great sex with other partners!

As for his prescription of having sex whether or not you want to - I suspect that's merely a case of Tucker advising others to do what he does.
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mrsryan
11/26/08

@PaintedTrollop: And you can be really intimate without having sex, or even being naked, even if Tucker Carlson has never experienced such a thing.
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PaintedTrollop
11/26/08

@mrsryan:

Tucker Carlson was born clothed, thank heavens for the rest of us!
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funnyface
11/26/08

@PaintedTrollop: I'd be interested in seeing your actual stats. While people who *say* they are Christians have the same divorce rate or higher than the general population, when you select for only practicing religious people, meaning those who attend church regularly, the divorce stats go way down.
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jemandtheholograms
11/26/08

@PaintedTrollop: with a tiny stupid bowtie.
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Mafalda para Presidente
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
The only 100% safe method to never getting divorced that I know of is to not get married in the first place.
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info*ninja
11/26/08

@Mafalda para Presidente: Works every time
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la.donna.pietra
11/26/08

@Mafalda para Presidente: The sad thing is that it isn't true--a couple of states have laws on the books that if an unmarried couple has been cohabitating for a specific period of time, especially if they have kids, they must go through a divorce proceeding if they want to split up. I know of at least one couple who didn't get married precisely because they were scared to death of divorce and had to go through it anyway. Total suckage!
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