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National Board Of Review Didn't Like Precious As Much As Barbara Bush Did
Oscar Noms 2008: Women Can Write, Not Direct

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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
12/04/09

In reply to National Board Of Review Didn't Like Precious As Much As Barbara Bush Did
I read the Barbara Bush piece yesterday, and all I could think about were her horrible comments after Hurricane Katrina and how the people in the Astrodome were "underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them." Is that unfair on my part?
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Irin
12/04/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit): Well, it's sort of consistent for her if she liked the movie for the same reasons Dana Stevens did not: [www.slate.com]
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
12/04/09

@Irin: EXACTLY.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
12/04/09

@Irin: And thanks for that link, it's terrific.
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Understater
12/04/09

In reply to National Board Of Review Didn't Like Precious As Much As Barbara Bush Did
I've talked to a good number of people who thought Precious was sloppy and amateurishly made, with the performances being its only saving grace.

I think we need to separate artistic merit from social significance, but I will reserve judgment until I actually see the film myself.
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Edited by Understater at 12/04/09 11:47 AM Understater was starred Understater was unstarred

Ofmyself
12/04/09

@Understater: Well said. Powerful message alone does not a great film make - even if there are strong performances. I found a lot of the direction, writing, and charactarization to be hamfisted and/or sloppy, and there are many who agree.
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yvanehtnioj
12/04/09

@Ofmyself: Especially the writing and characterization. I mean, I could barely understand what Lenny Kravitz's character was doing showing up at the school at the end. "Hi, I'm the nurse that helped deliver your baby, now we're bf4e with no explanation whatsoever"?
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
12/04/09

@Understater: Which begs the question: can an entire film be redeemed simply on the strength of its performances? I kind of felt the same way about Syriana -- without the performances, especially Alexander Siddig's, it would have been more of a mess, yet I ended up admiring the film only because of the actors.
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MyNameIsChris
12/04/09

@Understater: I'm actually with you... I think "Precious" has tons of flaws and I thought "Dreamgirls" was fucking awful. However, it's not like NBR picked ten amazing perfect films. They LOVE "Up In The Air" which (while more slickly shot and put together) is ultimately just as hamfisted and forced as "Precious."
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Understater
12/04/09

@MyNameIsChris: NOOOOO, don't say that! I have such high expectations for Up in the Air :(
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MyNameIsChris
12/04/09

@Understater: Eek... nevermind... it's BRILLIANT!!!!

(It's entertaining... but it's simply not capital-G Great like the marketing wants you to believe. Ultimately there's just depth missing. I feel like Jason Reitman is going to pan out to be the Ron Howard of the big budget psuedo indie set...)
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
12/04/09

In reply to National Board Of Review Didn't Like Precious As Much As Barbara Bush Did
I saw Precious last night and I cried out of frustration because there were audible "ewwwws" when the sexual assaults began and there was audible laughing whenever Precious would eat because, "ewww, she's fat." I couldn't take it, I couldn't fucking take it. I said very loudly to my sister, "It's so gross to see a fat woman eat. HOW dare she put food into her stomach." Then I gave them the evil eye, and then I cried. and cried. and cried.
For fucks sake, is there any hope? Honestly, is there any hope when this is how a story of this magnitude is received? It broke my heart a little and I'm still not over it today.
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curiousgeorgiana
12/04/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: I'm so sorry you had such a bad experience! Don't lose hope. For every audible snicker and joke there was a silent person in the theater actually experiencing the film as it was meant to be.
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La muerte en bicicleta
12/04/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: I went on opening day. The theater was packed. In front of me where 5 teenage girls. They spoke and laughed throughout the whole movie. I tried to cut them some slack. Maybe they were uncomfortable and didn't know how to deal. That is what I kept telling myself. I guess compassion really is a learned behavior.

Despite the interruptions, the movie got through to me and it sounds like to you. I am sorry you had bad time
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. promoted this comment

jessacecilia
12/04/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Did they make comments about the baby choking on her breast the first time she fed him in the hospital? And laugh when she almost got hit in the head with the frying pan? And make lewd comments at the "Precious, come to mommy" part? That was my experience.

I didn't cry because of the movie but almost cried because of the audience.
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny. promoted this comment jessacecilia was starred jessacecilia was unstarred

Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
12/04/09

@curiousgeorgiana: Thank you. I really need to believe that. It just hurts me to think of all the people that are living lives like Precious and I'm in a fucking theater listening to people LAUGH at them.
I think there might be so transference at play, because the movie is a powerful one, it's possible I was directing my anger at something tangible.
I'm glad I saw it though because as Linda Loman says, "Attention must be paid."
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
12/04/09

@La muerte en bicicleta: I cut them slack at first too, because I understand that laughter is a natural release of tension.
It was really only when they expressed apathy or actual disdain towards the character that I got really mad.
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curiousgeorgiana
12/04/09

@La muerte en bicicleta: There's probably some merit to this argument too. Younger viewers were likely uncomfortable. Not that that justifies laughter or snide comments-- the movie is supposed to make you uncomfortable, but youth is a bit of an excuse.
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
12/04/09

@jessacecilia: Totally. Completely and totally. And I did cry because of the audience.
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Irin
12/04/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: When I saw Gran Torino in a suburban theater, I was disturbed by how many people (white and black, apparently) laughed hysterically at Clint Eastwood's character's racism. And in Revolutionary Road (this time in Manhattan), laughs at the most painful fights between the couple. So yes, maybe discomfort?
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Edited by Irin at 12/04/09 12:16 PM Irin was starred Irin was unstarred

La muerte en bicicleta
12/04/09

@curiousgeorgiana: It is a total excuse. I just told myself this so I wouldn't cause a scene.
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jessacecilia
12/04/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: What did you think about the movie? And do you think your environment played a big part in your enjoyment of the movie itself?
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
12/04/09

@jessacecilia: It made me angry. Angry that this shit happens. Angry that people like Precious are invisible. Angry that I'm just some chic in a theater doing absolutely nothing to change anything. Angry that all it takes sometimes is a kind word, a scarf, a hug, a wave hello and some people never even get that.
My environment played into that completely as I only got more angry at the fact that these privileged assholes, in a warm theater with $100 boots and popcorn would dare to laugh at the plight of this woman.
Quite frankly, it made me want to hurt them, to punish them. And then it made me want to volunteer more and be kinder.
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jessacecilia
12/04/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: We should be friends. And we should go to movies together.

Well, maybe not the latter - I can see the headlines now. "Two arrested in theatre brawl. Attacks happen when giggles occur at puppy's misfortune."
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
12/04/09

@jessacecilia: hearted. Just think of all the support we would get for whooping up on insensitive assholes.
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Diziet_Sma
12/04/09

@Irin: @Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: I had this experience at Antichrist, a film which I loved and found profoundly tragic in its depiction of emotional pain. It depends how in touch with one's feelings one is - people laugh when they are uncomfortable; it just means they basically haven't developed the emotional 'muscles' to deal with what is happening on screen - remember being a kid and giggling whenever people kissed, or something sexy came on TV when you were watching with your parents? Although extremely annoying at the time, I always think they'll grow out of it someday, hopefully.
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Edited by Diziet_Sma at 12/04/09 2:11 PM Diziet_Sma was starred Diziet_Sma was unstarred

Diziet_Sma
12/04/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: You're just more emotionally evolved, is all.
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
12/04/09

@Diziet_Sma: I really want to believe this, still it's a shame that it ruins it for other people.
I am a deeply empathetic person (I cry during commercials) and I usually have a difficult time in theaters to begin with because I get angry that so many people put so much into it and they aren't being respected.
It's even worse if I am watching live theater. I have been known to flip out on people who want get up to leave before curtain call.
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Jenloveshercurves
12/05/09

@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: If it makes you feel any better, when I was in the movie, a woman next to me grabbed my leg accidentally in fear when Monique held the baby. Like in a horror movie when you know something bad is about to happen, something real bad.
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ragincajun67
12/04/09

In reply to National Board Of Review Didn't Like Precious As Much As Barbara Bush Did
So is Not Liking Precious the new Thinking OJ Is Guilty? Either one earns you an immediate "Do not pass go. Go directly to Racist!" card? Well, this will be an interesting awards season.

(I honestly did not know that my bed had a cynical side before I woke up on it this morning.)
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yvanehtnioj
12/04/09

@ragincajun67: Or not voting for Obama in the primaries!

I liked the movie, but I thought it was more "moving" than "exceptional moviemaking". I mean, I'm a sucker for emotional manipulation, but I don't expect every movie that makes me cry to sweep the Oscars.
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winner
12/04/09

In reply to National Board Of Review Didn't Like Precious As Much As Barbara Bush Did
Oh BULL. SHIT. The Road isn't on that list either.

National Board of Review? Dead to me.
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PilgrimSoul
12/04/09

@winner: I dunno, it looks to me like they took the only Cormac McCarthy book I ever liked and turned it into a BLOCKBUSTER TO THE EXTREME MAX OMG BANGBANGSPLOSION!
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
12/04/09

@PilgrimSoul: It's totally not that. At. All. The first trailers out weren't vetted by the director. The new clips from it are beyond amazing.
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curiousgeorgiana
12/04/09

@winner: Bullshit.
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winner
12/04/09

@PilgrimSoul: Have you seen it? It is so not a BLOCKBUSTER TO THE EXTREME MAX OMG BANGBANGSPLOSION! It is one of the quietest, most graceful movies I've ever seen. In the vein of Mallick's The Thin Red Line.

If it's any consolation, it's only in the arty theaters at this point.
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curiousgeorgiana
12/04/09

@winner: They better do a wider release. I hate the theater it's showing at right now in DC ( it has been overrun with obnoxious teenagers). Please come to my mostly quiet theater soon!!
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winner
12/04/09

@curiousgeorgiana: The choice to release it during the holidays was strange, though I guess it was meant to be released earlier and needed final edits. The theater I saw it in last night was packed.

It may just replace The Professional as my all-time favorite movie.
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curiousgeorgiana
12/04/09

@winner:
It was supposed to be released a year ago, then delay, delay, delay.

It makes me so happy to hear that you liked it so much! Oscar nod for Viggo perhaps?
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ozu
12/04/09

@winner: I'm a huge fan of Hillcoat's The Proposition so when he was brought on to direct it immediately became one of my most anticipated films.

I also love that you compared it to The Thin Red Line, which is probably in my top 10-20 all-time. I can't wait to see it.
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MyNameIsChris
12/04/09

@winner: As much as I always want to love The Thin Red Line, the only thing terribly graceful about it are Mallick's camera moves and the cinematography in general...
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winner
12/04/09

@MyNameIsChris: Right - that's what I mean mostly. And I suppose that says more about John Toll than Malick. Have you seen The New World? I would have drawn that comparison but the contrast of beauty and hope against a backdrop of violence and hopelessness was more in line with Thin Red Line.

Though I suppose Emmanuel Lubezki's cinematography in The New Worldwas far more transcendental.
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beatrice2000
12/04/09

@ozu: The Road is by the same man who did The Proposition? Ok, that makes me want to see it more. The Proposition was so brutal but so good.
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winner
12/04/09

@ozu: I know - I loved The Proposition and imagined Hillcoat directing every Cormac McCarthy book I've read even before I heard he was after McCarthy for rights to The Road. I would have been happy with Malick, too, I think but Hillcoat owns the frontier. Can you imagine how different No Country for Old Men would have been if he'd directed it?

I also kind of wish Hillcoat was direction The Killer Inside Me instead of Winterbottom but that's a whole 'nother issue.
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MyNameIsChris
12/04/09

@winner: "The New World" doesn't really work for me either, but again, I enjoy looking at it. Toll has done good work, but nothing (in my opinion) that approaches "The Thin Red Line." So I think a good chunk of the credit has to go to Malick for knowing and getting what he wanted. Lubezki, on the other hand, is a hero of mine for all his work with Cuarón.

Then again, my hopes for New World were tempered by my relative disappointment in the return of Malick and having already discovered he's human. I had read Thin Red Line and was a fan of the book, and a fan of Malick, and pretty let down by the end result.
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winner
12/04/09

@curiousgeorgiana: Oh my god, dude. Viggo killed but that boy... he blew my mind. Kodi Smit-McPhee will take best supporting for sure. I wish you'd seen it so I had some way to gauge whether or not I'm overreacting!
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Rose.Selavy.Needs.A.Drink
12/04/09

@PilgrimSoul: Not at all. Considering the few people I know who have seen the movie claim "it made them hurt"
in an emotional fashion (meant as a compliment), it's hardly a blockbuster. Released in only what, 111 theaters? Hardly blockbuster numbers.

I'm seeing it Saturday.
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winner promoted this comment Edited by Rose.Selavy.Needs.A.Drink at 12/04/09 1:36 PM

winner
12/04/09

@MyNameIsChris: Ah - I will forgive a lot for a beautifully shot movie. The New World made me feel like I was on drugs.

And I didn't read Thin Red Line but I have heard similar complaints from people who have.

If you plan on seeing The Road, pm me after you've seen it. I'm curious to know what you think about it.
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winner
12/04/09

@beatrice2000: Yeah, John Hillcoat directed The Proposition and Guy Pearce even shows up in The Road.
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MyNameIsChris
12/04/09

@winner: Ha! Yeah... I actually really agree with you. I will deal with a lot of crap if it's beautifully shot and edited. I'm a sucker for visuals. Granted, if somebody combines great visuals, editing AND story/performances I'm thrilled. Right now usually it's Cuarón or Paul Thomas Anderson I look forward to.

Haven't seen The Road yet. I have a screener of it but I'm holding off to see it in a theatre.
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winner
12/04/09

@Rose.Selavy.Needs.A.Drink: I don't cry in movies. At the end of this one, I was snot-nosed and red-eyed; my throat hurt and my stomach turned.

It felt like I was going through a breakup.
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curiousgeorgiana
12/04/09

@winner: I will see it next weekend and we can discuss!
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cinematheques
12/04/09

In reply to National Board Of Review Didn't Like Precious As Much As Barbara Bush Did
I thought the self-proclaimed Oscar predictor was the entire broadcast of the Golden Globes. Or was it SAG?

I just remember presenters repeatedly convincing us that whoever won this award would win an Oscar. We've got the stats! They can't be beat!
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CurtCole
12/04/09

In reply to National Board Of Review Didn't Like Precious As Much As Barbara Bush Did
Thinking Dreamgirls sucked does not make you a racist, it just indicates that you have good taste.
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weirdgasm
12/04/09

@CurtCole:I'm black and I agree. The music was brilliant but that's all there is to it for me personally. They criminally underused Anika Noni Rose's Lorell and many other important characters from the play to make it a Beyonce vanity project. The overacting by her and Jamie Foxx make it nearly unwatchable. Jennifer Hudson's singing was amazing but her acting was way under par.
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CurtCole
12/04/09

@weirdgasm: That's exactly how I felt. I love her, but her Oscar was undeserved. I would have loved it if she'd won best song that year though.
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weirdgasm
12/04/09

@CurtCole: It just goes to show that awards don't equate to superiority. I probably would've flat out died if Beyonce won that Golden Globe. Beyonce and the words "Best Actress" are an obvious oxymoron.
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nyc-caribbean-ragazza
12/04/09

In reply to National Board Of Review Didn't Like Precious As Much As Barbara Bush Did
Is Roger joking regarding Dreamgirls? A lot of people thought it wasn't Best Pic material.

Also while the stars were black nobody else about-the-line was. So even if the movie won best screenplay, director or pic none of the people accepting would have been black so not sure what Roger's talking about.
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nyc-caribbean-ragazza
12/04/09

@nyc-caribbean-ragazza:

that should be "above" the line.
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curiousgeorgiana
12/04/09

@nyc-caribbean-ragazza: The Dreamgirls comparison was a definite misstep. That movie failed to make the list because it was bad.
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hortense
12/04/09

In reply to National Board Of Review Didn't Like Precious As Much As Barbara Bush Did
I just think it's weird that 500 Days Of Summer is up there and not Precious, as Precious had better reviews overall.
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PilgrimSoul
12/04/09

@hortense: ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I watched 500 Days of Summer on a plane, and basically it's emo-dude Livejournal as a screenplay.
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Lana Leigh loves Meryl Streep
12/04/09

@PilgrimSoul: I saw 500 Days of Summer and I really enjoyed it. Haven't seen Precious yet though.
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hortense
12/04/09

@PilgrimSoul: That's what I'm saying! How is that on there and not Precious?
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
12/04/09

@hortense: Agreed.
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