I read the Barbara Bush piece yesterday, and all I could think about were her horrible comments after Hurricane Katrina and how the people in the Astrodome were "underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them." Is that unfair on my part?
@Understater: Well said. Powerful message alone does not a great film make - even if there are strong performances. I found a lot of the direction, writing, and charactarization to be hamfisted and/or sloppy, and there are many who agree.
@Ofmyself: Especially the writing and characterization. I mean, I could barely understand what Lenny Kravitz's character was doing showing up at the school at the end. "Hi, I'm the nurse that helped deliver your baby, now we're bf4e with no explanation whatsoever"?
@Understater: Which begs the question: can an entire film be redeemed simply on the strength of its performances? I kind of felt the same way about Syriana -- without the performances, especially Alexander Siddig's, it would have been more of a mess, yet I ended up admiring the film only because of the actors.
@Understater: I'm actually with you... I think "Precious" has tons of flaws and I thought "Dreamgirls" was fucking awful. However, it's not like NBR picked ten amazing perfect films. They LOVE "Up In The Air" which (while more slickly shot and put together) is ultimately just as hamfisted and forced as "Precious."
(It's entertaining... but it's simply not capital-G Great like the marketing wants you to believe. Ultimately there's just depth missing. I feel like Jason Reitman is going to pan out to be the Ron Howard of the big budget psuedo indie set...)
I saw Precious last night and I cried out of frustration because there were audible "ewwwws" when the sexual assaults began and there was audible laughing whenever Precious would eat because, "ewww, she's fat." I couldn't take it, I couldn't fucking take it. I said very loudly to my sister, "It's so gross to see a fat woman eat. HOW dare she put food into her stomach." Then I gave them the evil eye, and then I cried. and cried. and cried.
For fucks sake, is there any hope? Honestly, is there any hope when this is how a story of this magnitude is received? It broke my heart a little and I'm still not over it today.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: I'm so sorry you had such a bad experience! Don't lose hope. For every audible snicker and joke there was a silent person in the theater actually experiencing the film as it was meant to be.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: I went on opening day. The theater was packed. In front of me where 5 teenage girls. They spoke and laughed throughout the whole movie. I tried to cut them some slack. Maybe they were uncomfortable and didn't know how to deal. That is what I kept telling myself. I guess compassion really is a learned behavior.
Despite the interruptions, the movie got through to me and it sounds like to you. I am sorry you had bad time
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Did they make comments about the baby choking on her breast the first time she fed him in the hospital? And laugh when she almost got hit in the head with the frying pan? And make lewd comments at the "Precious, come to mommy" part? That was my experience.
I didn't cry because of the movie but almost cried because of the audience.
@curiousgeorgiana: Thank you. I really need to believe that. It just hurts me to think of all the people that are living lives like Precious and I'm in a fucking theater listening to people LAUGH at them.
I think there might be so transference at play, because the movie is a powerful one, it's possible I was directing my anger at something tangible.
I'm glad I saw it though because as Linda Loman says, "Attention must be paid."
@La muerte en bicicleta: I cut them slack at first too, because I understand that laughter is a natural release of tension.
It was really only when they expressed apathy or actual disdain towards the character that I got really mad.
@La muerte en bicicleta: There's probably some merit to this argument too. Younger viewers were likely uncomfortable. Not that that justifies laughter or snide comments-- the movie is supposed to make you uncomfortable, but youth is a bit of an excuse.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: When I saw Gran Torino in a suburban theater, I was disturbed by how many people (white and black, apparently) laughed hysterically at Clint Eastwood's character's racism. And in Revolutionary Road (this time in Manhattan), laughs at the most painful fights between the couple. So yes, maybe discomfort?
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: What did you think about the movie? And do you think your environment played a big part in your enjoyment of the movie itself?
@jessacecilia: It made me angry. Angry that this shit happens. Angry that people like Precious are invisible. Angry that I'm just some chic in a theater doing absolutely nothing to change anything. Angry that all it takes sometimes is a kind word, a scarf, a hug, a wave hello and some people never even get that.
My environment played into that completely as I only got more angry at the fact that these privileged assholes, in a warm theater with $100 boots and popcorn would dare to laugh at the plight of this woman.
Quite frankly, it made me want to hurt them, to punish them. And then it made me want to volunteer more and be kinder.
@Irin: @Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: I had this experience at Antichrist, a film which I loved and found profoundly tragic in its depiction of emotional pain. It depends how in touch with one's feelings one is - people laugh when they are uncomfortable; it just means they basically haven't developed the emotional 'muscles' to deal with what is happening on screen - remember being a kid and giggling whenever people kissed, or something sexy came on TV when you were watching with your parents? Although extremely annoying at the time, I always think they'll grow out of it someday, hopefully.
@Diziet_Sma: I really want to believe this, still it's a shame that it ruins it for other people.
I am a deeply empathetic person (I cry during commercials) and I usually have a difficult time in theaters to begin with because I get angry that so many people put so much into it and they aren't being respected.
It's even worse if I am watching live theater. I have been known to flip out on people who want get up to leave before curtain call.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: If it makes you feel any better, when I was in the movie, a woman next to me grabbed my leg accidentally in fear when Monique held the baby. Like in a horror movie when you know something bad is about to happen, something real bad.
So is Not Liking Precious the new Thinking OJ Is Guilty? Either one earns you an immediate "Do not pass go. Go directly to Racist!" card? Well, this will be an interesting awards season.
(I honestly did not know that my bed had a cynical side before I woke up on it this morning.)
@ragincajun67: Or not voting for Obama in the primaries!
I liked the movie, but I thought it was more "moving" than "exceptional moviemaking". I mean, I'm a sucker for emotional manipulation, but I don't expect every movie that makes me cry to sweep the Oscars.
@winner: I dunno, it looks to me like they took the only Cormac McCarthy book I ever liked and turned it into a BLOCKBUSTER TO THE EXTREME MAX OMG BANGBANGSPLOSION!
@PilgrimSoul: Have you seen it? It is so not a BLOCKBUSTER TO THE EXTREME MAX OMG BANGBANGSPLOSION! It is one of the quietest, most graceful movies I've ever seen. In the vein of Mallick's The Thin Red Line.
If it's any consolation, it's only in the arty theaters at this point.
@winner: They better do a wider release. I hate the theater it's showing at right now in DC ( it has been overrun with obnoxious teenagers). Please come to my mostly quiet theater soon!!
@curiousgeorgiana: The choice to release it during the holidays was strange, though I guess it was meant to be released earlier and needed final edits. The theater I saw it in last night was packed.
It may just replace The Professional as my all-time favorite movie.
@winner: As much as I always want to love The Thin Red Line, the only thing terribly graceful about it are Mallick's camera moves and the cinematography in general...
@MyNameIsChris: Right - that's what I mean mostly. And I suppose that says more about John Toll than Malick. Have you seen The New World? I would have drawn that comparison but the contrast of beauty and hope against a backdrop of violence and hopelessness was more in line with Thin Red Line.
Though I suppose Emmanuel Lubezki's cinematography in The New Worldwas far more transcendental.
@ozu: I know - I loved The Proposition and imagined Hillcoat directing every Cormac McCarthy book I've read even before I heard he was after McCarthy for rights to The Road. I would have been happy with Malick, too, I think but Hillcoat owns the frontier. Can you imagine how different No Country for Old Men would have been if he'd directed it?
I also kind of wish Hillcoat was direction The Killer Inside Me instead of Winterbottom but that's a whole 'nother issue.
@winner: "The New World" doesn't really work for me either, but again, I enjoy looking at it. Toll has done good work, but nothing (in my opinion) that approaches "The Thin Red Line." So I think a good chunk of the credit has to go to Malick for knowing and getting what he wanted. Lubezki, on the other hand, is a hero of mine for all his work with Cuarón.
Then again, my hopes for New World were tempered by my relative disappointment in the return of Malick and having already discovered he's human. I had read Thin Red Line and was a fan of the book, and a fan of Malick, and pretty let down by the end result.
@curiousgeorgiana: Oh my god, dude. Viggo killed but that boy... he blew my mind. Kodi Smit-McPhee will take best supporting for sure. I wish you'd seen it so I had some way to gauge whether or not I'm overreacting!
@PilgrimSoul: Not at all. Considering the few people I know who have seen the movie claim "it made them hurt"
in an emotional fashion (meant as a compliment), it's hardly a blockbuster. Released in only what, 111 theaters? Hardly blockbuster numbers.
winner promoted this comment
Edited by Rose.Selavy.Needs.A.Drink at 12/04/09 1:36 PM
Rose.Selavy.Needs.A.Drink was starred
Rose.Selavy.Needs.A.Drink was unstarred
@winner: Ha! Yeah... I actually really agree with you. I will deal with a lot of crap if it's beautifully shot and edited. I'm a sucker for visuals. Granted, if somebody combines great visuals, editing AND story/performances I'm thrilled. Right now usually it's Cuarón or Paul Thomas Anderson I look forward to.
Haven't seen The Road yet. I have a screener of it but I'm holding off to see it in a theatre.
@CurtCole:I'm black and I agree. The music was brilliant but that's all there is to it for me personally. They criminally underused Anika Noni Rose's Lorell and many other important characters from the play to make it a Beyonce vanity project. The overacting by her and Jamie Foxx make it nearly unwatchable. Jennifer Hudson's singing was amazing but her acting was way under par.
@CurtCole: It just goes to show that awards don't equate to superiority. I probably would've flat out died if Beyonce won that Golden Globe. Beyonce and the words "Best Actress" are an obvious oxymoron.
Is Roger joking regarding Dreamgirls? A lot of people thought it wasn't Best Pic material.
Also while the stars were black nobody else about-the-line was. So even if the movie won best screenplay, director or pic none of the people accepting would have been black so not sure what Roger's talking about.
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I think we need to separate artistic merit from social significance, but I will reserve judgment until I actually see the film myself.
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(It's entertaining... but it's simply not capital-G Great like the marketing wants you to believe. Ultimately there's just depth missing. I feel like Jason Reitman is going to pan out to be the Ron Howard of the big budget psuedo indie set...)
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For fucks sake, is there any hope? Honestly, is there any hope when this is how a story of this magnitude is received? It broke my heart a little and I'm still not over it today.
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Despite the interruptions, the movie got through to me and it sounds like to you. I am sorry you had bad time
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I didn't cry because of the movie but almost cried because of the audience.
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I think there might be so transference at play, because the movie is a powerful one, it's possible I was directing my anger at something tangible.
I'm glad I saw it though because as Linda Loman says, "Attention must be paid."
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It was really only when they expressed apathy or actual disdain towards the character that I got really mad.
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My environment played into that completely as I only got more angry at the fact that these privileged assholes, in a warm theater with $100 boots and popcorn would dare to laugh at the plight of this woman.
Quite frankly, it made me want to hurt them, to punish them. And then it made me want to volunteer more and be kinder.
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Well, maybe not the latter - I can see the headlines now. "Two arrested in theatre brawl. Attacks happen when giggles occur at puppy's misfortune."
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I am a deeply empathetic person (I cry during commercials) and I usually have a difficult time in theaters to begin with because I get angry that so many people put so much into it and they aren't being respected.
It's even worse if I am watching live theater. I have been known to flip out on people who want get up to leave before curtain call.
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(I honestly did not know that my bed had a cynical side before I woke up on it this morning.)
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I liked the movie, but I thought it was more "moving" than "exceptional moviemaking". I mean, I'm a sucker for emotional manipulation, but I don't expect every movie that makes me cry to sweep the Oscars.
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National Board of Review? Dead to me.
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If it's any consolation, it's only in the arty theaters at this point.
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It may just replace The Professional as my all-time favorite movie.
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It was supposed to be released a year ago, then delay, delay, delay.
It makes me so happy to hear that you liked it so much! Oscar nod for Viggo perhaps?
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I also love that you compared it to The Thin Red Line, which is probably in my top 10-20 all-time. I can't wait to see it.
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Though I suppose Emmanuel Lubezki's cinematography in The New Worldwas far more transcendental.
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I also kind of wish Hillcoat was direction The Killer Inside Me instead of Winterbottom but that's a whole 'nother issue.
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Then again, my hopes for New World were tempered by my relative disappointment in the return of Malick and having already discovered he's human. I had read Thin Red Line and was a fan of the book, and a fan of Malick, and pretty let down by the end result.
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in an emotional fashion (meant as a compliment), it's hardly a blockbuster. Released in only what, 111 theaters? Hardly blockbuster numbers.
I'm seeing it Saturday.
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And I didn't read Thin Red Line but I have heard similar complaints from people who have.
If you plan on seeing The Road, pm me after you've seen it. I'm curious to know what you think about it.
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Haven't seen The Road yet. I have a screener of it but I'm holding off to see it in a theatre.
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It felt like I was going through a breakup.
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I just remember presenters repeatedly convincing us that whoever won this award would win an Oscar. We've got the stats! They can't be beat!
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Also while the stars were black nobody else about-the-line was. So even if the movie won best screenplay, director or pic none of the people accepting would have been black so not sure what Roger's talking about.
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that should be "above" the line.
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