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Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?

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Baroness
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
I've always wondered about Madonna's friendships with Gwyneth and Stella, women both more than a decade younger, women who idolized Madonna when they were growing up. There's a power-differential there, that's very odd.

Madonna's known for cutting people out of her life, often ruthlessly. It's kind of sad she doesn't seem to have any real women friends who are contemporaries, and non-famous. She hardly knew Stella very well, the girl was surprised to be asked to be bridesmaid, she said.

Besides competitive dieting, yoga, and extremely boring macrobiotic food issues, I guess what Gwyneth and Madonna have in common is that they over-romanticized British men and life in England, and are disappointed to find it not what they thought. They both had the money and fame to live the best life possible in London- yet they both seem depressed there, especially Madonna.

Gwyneth actually is far more down-to-earth than her image, in my personal experience. I wonder if Madonna's is a friendship that's become bothersome, overbearing, to her. You know Madonna always has to be boss, is a pretty rigid person in her severe opinions-and that must be stressful sometimes. Just musing..
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emilyanne
11/07/08

@Baroness: hmm good points actually. To be fair my home city can be a bit depressing at times, particularly if you've lived in Manhattan. It's not that London isn't brilliant, it's just that its a bit less easy and servicy than NYC.
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Baroness
11/07/08

@emilyanne: Yes!, to you and Anointy below: London is indeed a magnificent city. But it's a city that someone like Madonna (who i admire) seems ill-equipped to appreciate. I think she's anxiously looking about for affirmation of her brilliance, and that's just not the British way. The many pleasure of London are social, cultural, lower-key I think. Madonna seems frustrated that the British man she married, uh, acts British. He likes his pints and his mates, doesn't like fuss and stress over unnecessary things. Madonna seems a lot of fuss and stress (and i'm not judging.)

It wasn't a very good movie, but remember in Notting Hill where Julia Roberts was a massive movie star, but she found friendship and pleasure in London by toning it down, going to that casual dinner party, quietly making friends, talking? I think M is incapable of this. That scene reminded me of my best times in London. But you have to be interested in other people, not fuss over the food, etc. I think she's at a point where if she isn't constantly reassured she's a star, she literally doesn't know who she is.
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trixie_talbot
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
"we are on similar paths in our lives in what we eat and our yoga-stuff like that."

I'm not feeling in great shape today, but thank fuck I don't have friendships based on that. Hurray!

(unless of course you swap the words 'what we eat' with 'how much we drink' and 'yoga' with 'personal crises')!
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bluebears
11/07/08

@trixie_talbot: honestly, it shows how ultimately shallow they are.
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trixie_talbot
11/07/08

@bluebears: Thank you. How does this differ from...'I like pizza. Do you like pizza? You do? That's amazing! We're meant to be together.'
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bluebears
11/07/08

@trixie_talbot: the difference is you and i could split a pizza for about 3 bucks apiece but lunch with them would most likely cost upwards of 50 bucks and consist of 3 small twigs and a scattering of herbs.
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bluebears
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
Has anyone read bell hooks on Madonna? Just curious.
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O RLY?
11/07/08

@bluebears: no..i'm curious what does she say?
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bluebears
11/07/08

@O-RLY: It's pretty scathing. I read it a while ago so I'm a bit foggy but basically how Madonna claims to be influenced and inpired by Af-Am culture but really she just appropriates certain aspects all the while condescending to it and how she ultimately does more to reinforce WASP-y patriarchy stereotypes through her choice of looks etc etc. Thats a very very general idea of the writing. Anyway it was written by bell hooks before Madonna became a complete anglo-phile and i remember thinking how time had really proven her (hooks) correct. it's an interesting read.
[stevenstanley.tripod.com]
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LoveNoelG
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
I've heard Gwyneth say more than once that she wasn't invited to Madge's wedding. Not because they aren't friends but because they aren't that close.

Lots of misconceptions on these two. I have friends that I work out with and have an occasional dinner with, but they aren't my bestie.

I think the media contrived quite a bit of this.
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bluebears
11/07/08

@LoveNoelG: wait, i JUST saw pics from madonnas wedding (in US or something) and Gweneth was there.
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LoveNoelG
11/07/08

@bluebears: Gwyneth lied? Gwyneth Paltrow lied to me. Several times.

I am totally unsubscribing from GOOP. This is the final straw.
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bluebears
11/07/08

@LoveNoelG: listen, i'm sure she did it for your own good. don't question her! she is very enlightened and spiritual.
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Gingerlime
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
I'm no Gwyneth fan, but she seems to genuinely love England and her husband. If Madge tries the wedge-driving approach, Gwyn will probs give her the boot.
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emilyanne
11/07/08

@Gingerlime: see I disagree with the former statement, she spends a huge amount of time giving interviews about how terrible english men are (chris as the exception), how crap our hospitals are, how bad our restaurants were, how we don't have serious discussions and drink too much...

As you might guess I'm not very fond of Ms Paltrow, she appears to believe that she has class, her comments suggest otherwise.
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brendastarlet is on it
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
It's very chic to be bicoastal these days -- New York/London -- so I expect Gwyneth will spend time on our shores, not least because her mother and brother are here. But I doubt very much that the Martins would move to NY permanently. Chris Martin is nothing if not a goofy English lad. (Ever see him dance?)
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aubonpam
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
Are hospitals in England really that bad? I'm curious now.
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brendastarlet is on it
11/07/08

@aubonpam: of course not. There are private hospitals that a celeb can use. King Hussein was treated in London.
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J.D.Regent
11/07/08

@aubonpam: also I think the NHS will pay for a midwife these days. Not that either of them are probably using the NHS.
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bowleserised
11/07/08

@aubonpam: Yes and no. It's sorta impossible to answer in a comment. There is a crisis in the midwifery service, and there are definitely issues with funding and staffing, but I suspect we have a lower maternal mortality rate than the US (IIRC).

Not that that is in any way relevant to a multi-millionairess.
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Jiboo
11/07/08

@aubonpam: I am by no means an expert on All Things England, but a couple of years ago I recall seeing a full-fledged, still-operating hospital in London that really must've been built in the at the turn of the century. The 20th century, that is. Srsly, looked like an older building on a college campus, one that's like "Yeah, that used to be the women's gymnasium, now it houses the biology department," or something. But who knows, perhaps it was very modern inside.

I'm not sayin' that's representative of every hospital there because, who knows, maybe that was just an odd holdout (again, I am NOT an expert), but I was certainly surprised by it, because in the good ol' modernization-happy US of A that thing would've seen a wrecking ball 30 or 40 years ago.
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aubonpam
11/07/08

@bowleserised: I had a hard time imagining they were as bad as she said. It just smacked of diva-ism to me.
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clevernamehere
11/07/08

@bowleserised: Actually, the UK rate is at least as high as the US, though I don't know why. The US rate just went from 11 to 13 per 100,000 which makes it the same as the UK.

US hospitals have more money than UK hospitals, so they tend to be prettier and have more (often not that necessary) high tech machines. UK hospitals are more like a GOOD public hospital in the US than a private US hospital.

The quote is just odd though. "Oh no, the hospital is slow! I'll give birth on my mom's couch instead!"
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emilyanne
11/07/08

@aubonpam: right I'm going to answer this without ranting (I hope). Hospitals in the UK are not that bad and yes we do have a lower mortality birth rate than the US, by quite a bit. Despite what is billed in the UK as a midwife crisis we also have less c-sections and more emphasis on natural birth with more midwives present than doctors, if that's your thing (it's not a priority for me but I recognise it is for some)

So that's the good bit, now the bad - superficially one on one treatment is better in US hopitals - I had an incredible experience giving birth in the US and in contrast to my sister I would say that my comfort levels plus the drugs I was given were way better and yes the hospital looked less 19th century than some in the UK.

However I'm still engaged in open warfare with the aneasthetist who performed my emergency c-section at 2 in the morning to prevent my daughter from dying as my health care provider won't cover this.

So weighing up my imminent bankrupcy against my excellent treatment and taking mortality rates v cleanliness into account, I might have been better off giving birth in the UK.

Of course none of these would concern Madonna and Gwynnie both of whom I loathe and thus don't listen to.
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emilyanne
11/07/08

@Jiboo: also it's wierd what's in and what's out in certain countries, this is off track but I was stunned by how old fashioned cleaning products are in New York in contrast to the UK. Little things like Ajax bleach powder still being used, which is redolent of the 70s in the UK, so I guess it's each to their own in how people view things.
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emilyanne
11/07/08

@aubonpam: I think it is. For the Madonnas and Gwynnie's of this world could have found plenty of high profile private hospitals if they'd wanted. And plenty of doctors who are as skilled as those in the US.
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Mama Penguino
11/07/08

@aubonpam: I spent several months living in London years ago and had to go to the equivalent of the ER for a bladder infection and the restroom was a small wooden "outhouse" sitting right outside the actual hospital, although still on hospital grounds. I'm sure it wasn't the norm, but I did find it a little unsettling.
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AtomiClash: humanitarian misanthrope
11/09/08

@aubonpam: I was treated for a severely broken ankle (I"m a klutz and fell running for the tube) at UCL hospital while I was getting my MA in London. Not only was my treatment FREE because I was a full time student, but it was exceptional care and post-care. Everyone was really terrific, and I didn't even mind the teaching rounds or the crazy junkie in the bed next to mine. (That's not sarcasm, I really didn't mind!) And yes, there are private hospitals for the twits who think the NHS isn't good for emergency and ob-gyn care. (The NHS will make you wait for non-emergency care. And wait A LOT, which sucks.)
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J.D.Regent
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
Oh maybe Gwyneth can frame it like, now that Obama is president, she can bear to move back to the states? Who knew I had so many opinions on this person?
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SisterMaryMartha
11/07/08

@J.D.Regent: I love it.
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BeSarcastic
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
London and New York are very turn-of-the-millenium. Madonna used to be so cutting edge. It's time to start thinking about the cities of the future: East St. Louis and Wilmington, DE.
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hfree
11/07/08

@BeSarcastic: Wilmington can be very hip! The Beaux Arts Ball at the art museum, Broadway shows at the Hotel du Pont, the Cesar Rodney Club. . .(yeah, it's a place for bankers and scientists. Nice place to grow up though).
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emilyanne
11/07/08

@BeSarcastic: I thought it was all going to be about Chicago from now on? Wow that Obama really has me brainwashed
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J.D.Regent
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
Hmmm what is this mysterious "string of movie roles in the pipeline" that the article says Gwyneth has?
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pantsless economist...access RESTORED
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
The friendship will only survive if Madonna's new image is crafted with GOOP-approved materials, such as organic linen, cheese from 3 legged cows in the most obscure parts of France, and organic hemp. Otherwise, they just aren't compatible.
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J.D.Regent
11/07/08

@pantsless economist: what if she finds a new yoga instructor and they embark on different paths? Between Bikram and Kripalu, there is no truck.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
Husbands come and go, but humorless pretension is forever.
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MizJenkins
11/07/08

@BrutallyHonestBabes: COTD!! Oh you slay me BHB.
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J.D.Regent
11/07/08

@BrutallyHonestBabes: you said it so much more succinctly than I did.
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dirtybee
11/07/08

@BrutallyHonestBabes: That sounds like the perfect Hallmark card.
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bluebears
11/07/08

@BrutallyHonestBabes: you're wisdom is deep. have you thought about starting a lifestyle website named after a gelatinous substance?
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hellosunshine
11/07/08

@bluebears: Oh man. BHB/BB - COTDs plz!
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J.D.Regent
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
On the other hand, Gwyneth and Chris are friends with Beyonce and Jay-Z. I think as long as there is an egocentric woman with whom Gwyneth can engage in a mutually ego-stroking pseudo-spiritual relationship, the friendship will continue to flourish. Unless Gwynnie gets all judgey about Madonna getting divorced (before she divorces in 6 years or whatever). And remember, A-Rod and Madonna's relationship is totes deep and based on Kabbalah, a religion I am shocked that Gwyneth has not herself joined, being Jewish-y herself.
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brendastarlet is on it
11/07/08

@J.D.Regent: I think she sees it for what it is. She did go to Spence, after all.
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bluebears
11/07/08

@J.D.Regent: They're friends with Beyonce and Jay-Z. shudder. Imagine that dinner party.
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Little Time Bomb
11/07/08

@J.D.Regent: Well maybe being actually Jewish is the antidote for falling for that? I mean it's not that exotic when it's just a ripped off version of what your Bubbie did every Friday night when you were a kid?

I know if someone tried to get my husband into "Catholic mysticism" he would just laugh his ass off. Who wants to spend their time doing a highly concentrated version of the crap they hated being forced to do when they were kids?
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J.D.Regent
11/07/08

@Little Time Bomb: true, true.
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thatgirlinnewyork
11/07/08

@J.D.Regent: @Little Time Bomb: and if you ever attend one of their "open houses", as i was once dragged to one by a well-meaning girlfriend, you'll find that the message is just zohar-kissed spirituality/mind technology not unlike landmark forum, scientology or any other hokey nonsense that leaves its high-paying customers often feeling worse than when they arrived. but your wallet feels lighter!
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emilyanne
11/07/08

@Little Time Bomb: ha so true, I would be very perturbed if someone suggested catholic mysticism I mean transubtantiation's bad enough.

Not buying into Kabbalah makes me like Gwyneth a tad more.
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Little Time Bomb
11/08/08

@thatgirlinnewyork: Ohhhh kooky and expensivethat must mean it's working.
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lurkystars
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
Please don't say she's from Detroit. She's not from Detroit.

I love Madge, but this bugs me since I actually am from Detroit.

Alas, I'm not famous, and nobody would know where Rochester, MI is...
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brendastarlet is on it
11/07/08

@lurkystars: she's not from Detroit. She's from a nice suburb north of Detroit, and went to Michigan (at least for one year.) If people realized she grew up middle/upper-middle class, and that her dad now runs a vineyard not far from Mario Batali's summer house, it would ruin the mystique.
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bluebears
11/07/08

@lurkystars: I do! I know where Rochester is.
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bluebears
11/07/08

@brendastarlet: It's not that nice a suburb. Just sayin'
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Little Time Bomb
11/07/08

@lurkystars: I'm from Plymouth MI but when we travel outside of the US we say Ann Arbor or Detroit. It's just easier and more polite I think to give people a frame of reference they might actually know. We never said Ann Arbor (which is closer) until a few years ago when David Beckham wore some U of M stuff. Now suddenly the whole futbol loving world knows Ann Arbor is the home of U of M.
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brendastarlet is on it
11/07/08

@Little Time Bomb: @bluebears: compared with say, Warren or Trenton?
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brendastarlet is on it
11/07/08

@Little Time Bomb: Plymouth is lovely. I always say "Michigan" and let people think it's the Upper Peninsula, all lakes and snowmobiles.
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Little Time Bomb
11/08/08

@brendastarlet: When people don't know where Michigan is I always make the mitten!
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EdnasEdibles
11/07/08

In reply to Can The Madonna/Gwyneth Friendship Survive?
Nah, this is the beginning of the end. Initially it will be the distance between them and they'll have a hard time keeping in touch. Eventually Gwynnie will grow tired of Madonna's "Me me me" e-mails about her new swinging single life and Madge will start to think Gwynnie is boring and will find a new friend to go clubbing with. My early prediction is either Lindsay Lohan or one of the Olson twins.
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jrhys
11/07/08

@EdnasEdibles: Not Dina Lohan?
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