What if you went to buy ice cream, and later found out that the ice cream you bought was stolen, and you were being sued by a rich person for eating it?
If the original ice cream owners were constantly in the news being run down on the street, mobbed, and harassed so that the intermediary could steal that brand ice cream to sell it to me, it's my responsiblity to not buy it or to make sure that it's not that particular brand. I know this site likes these pictures, but the "How could we possibly know?? What would you feel like if it was you?!" angle reeks of self-absolution. You (tabloids, etc.) know for a fact that you're part of the problem, now you have to decide if the money you make from perpetuating the problem is worth paying the fines.
People have been killed by the paparazzi. For what? So we can get pictures of who people we don't know are currently dating? What they're wearing? We don't let people that sell fake bags off the hook on this site, even though it's their livelihood, so why should media organizations that benefit from this bad behavior get a pass? It ain't ice cream, people. #paparazzi
@lydiafaye007: If you view the blog from a computer in California, you've probably established sufficient contact with the state to pursue the case. #paparazzi
This is a tough issue to do anything about; you have the rights of the press vs. the rights of the person and I see both as: 1)I'm a person who thinks privacy is a WONDERFUL thing (yeah, no desire for celebrity or fame here) and 2)I'm studying to become a writer, so I think freedom of the press is a WONDERFUL thing.
I'll start with the rights of the press side. Basically, the press has to have the right to photograph, write, interview, etc, so that issues, topics, etc, can be displayed from multiple points of view and that news can be circulated to the general public, without the fear of retribution by the government. If you start putting limits on the press, then you walk into the territory of some non-democratic countries where an outlet has to be careful of what they say for fear of what the government will do to them.
With this right comes HUGE responsibility of the press; what to say, what not to say, how far to take things, etc. Is/isn't it ok to press a politician to the breaking point when questioning them about an affair, accepting bribes, not paying taxes, etc? Is/isn't it ok to press a young girl to the breaking point about an assault on her, her helping her parents rob people, her beating the snot out of another girl, etc?
I think there is a difference between respectable "press" and someone who spends $800 dollars on a camera so they can stalk celebrities, take photos, and sell them to a trash rag for hundreds, maybe even thousands of dollars. I would FERVENTLY hope someone who considers themself to be part of the press to have some intellect and know the difference between right or wrong and know approximately where that line is (they are human). In my view, the paparazzi are... a blemish to good journalism. I know some people love this stuff, but I can live without seeing unimportant people ("celebrities") in pictures without makeup, trying to leave a club, or just any and everywhere in their day to day lives. I know there is no way to differentiate between press and paparazzi, but I think the world of journalism should do more to self-police and stop these unsavory people from trashing the general image of journalism.
As far as personal rights go; I think you should be able to walk down the street without being mobbed by a group of people. I think its wrong that you try to leave a location, but can't because your vehicle is surrounded by people to the point you can't move without hurting someone. I think you should be able to take a flight without having to run to your gate to avoid people asking you stupid questions and taking pictures with which to critique every inch of your life later. I think you should be able to leave your home without fearing for the safety of you, your children, and your loved ones.
Do famous people/celebrities agree to a certain loss of anonymity when they become famous? Sure, I'll relent you that. I'll even admit some "stars" thrive on being in the spotlight, being followed by the paparazzi, and having their entire lives played out for all to see. But some don't, and thats where the problem lies. Some "stars" just want to do their job and all that goes along with it, and then just go home and be a regular joe. They don't want to have to sneak around everywhere. They don't want to have a store close just so they can go shopping. They just want to live a normal life, like you and me.
Is there a middle ground here? I think so. I think most "celebrities" would consent to the fact that they have given up some anonymity to do what they do. I also think that the journalism industry can do lots more to stop the unsavory practices of the paparazzi. Does this require the government getting involved? Not at all. Until both sides take responsibility though, who else will straighten out this mess? #paparazzi
I have a friend who is quite well-known, and one week I opened up a tabloid and saw a picture of his wife, who is not famous or in the industry whatsoever, and his 3 year old son playing at the park. He was not there. I could not believe it. It was such an incredible invasion of privacy. I could have understood a tiny bit more if he had been at the park as well, but no.
I do agree that, to an extent, being a public figure requires relinquishing some privacy, but there has to be a line, and the above crossed it big time for me. #paparazzi
@Spike49: Ugh. I think taking photos of stars' children is just awful. The kids are not public figures. If they're with their (famous) parent, that might be a little different, but this just smacks of stalking. #paparazzi
Someone I know has the theory that the problem with this is that is all part of the same economic model. Artificial supply and demand that in turn create the conditions where an actor can earn obscene amounts of money because of measures of profitability that are partly fed by media hype and the culture of celebrity tabloids, which help shape public perceptions and expectations. Which in turn create a hostile environment to feed the demand, which now has a life of its own and operates as separate entity while still feeding the system. I don't know, it's a fine line to thread. And I share Dodai's ambivalent feelings about it. A law like the one signed by Schwarzenegger doesn't address all the issues, merely tries to solve some of them while it raises other questions. #paparazzi
I agree. Also, I think the law lets celebrities manipulate the press a bit: they COURT attention when it suits them, but only then. If this law is enforced, only celebrity-endorsed photos will exist...which means the blogs I love will turn into InStyle and People. Blech. #paparazzi
@CristinaS: We all court attention when it suits us, but only then. If you're an actor by trade, you're not entitled to privacy? It's this very attitude that I cannot understand. Why do you think it's your right to see pictures of these people taken in private settings (the kinds that are taken when the photog breaks the law to get them)? #paparazzi
@yvanehtnioj: Hmmm. Maybe you're right. But when publicists issue press releases about an actor's love life, pretending like it's news, shouldn't we treat it like news? i.e. not private and open to questioning. Also, many, many top actors manage to never have paparazzi in their face, without legislation. #paparazzi
Look, I'm not saying it's right to jump a hedge to get exclusive picture of someone's backyard wedding. Laws should not be broken. But taking a magazine or blog to court and fining them as much as $50,000 for not knowing that shot is illegal doesn't seem right either.
But ignorance of the law is not a defense--private property should be off limits, and I believe if a magazine takes photos illegally and profits, they'rea asking to get sued. #paparazzi
@pantsless economist...access RESTORED: Assume that the magazine is not the one taking the shot. If a magazine buys an illegal shot from a third-party, should they still be liable? #paparazzi
@FatLynn: Sure. If you have child porn on your computer, you're liable even if you thought the kid was 18. If you buy a bag of heroin, you're liable even if you thought it was baking soda. And in this case, the magazine/tabloid/blog knows they're buying a picture that the celebrity did not consent to (most of these include "get off my lawn" faces or the celeb being completely unaware that they're being photographed), so I really don't understand where their moral high ground comes from. "Oh, I know she was going to get her paper on her own property at 6:30 in the morning in her bath robe, but I thought they took the picture from the sidewalk, not her lawn!"? Oh you poor magazine CEO. You were tricked!
Would it honestly drive your publication out of business if you stopped taking pictures of people when they were going about their private lives? And if it would, good. freaking. riddance. #paparazzi
This might be difficult to enforce, but I've got to say I love the idea of this law. Love it. And I know that I'm not the only Jez who conscientiously objects to SJ's of stars wandering around trying to live their lives by not clicking through. It's one thing to put up picks of them at awards ceremonies or on red carpets, and the SJ's from international protests or feast days or whatever are cool, but when Mischa Barton is walking her dog, I think we should all just mind our own freaking beeswax. #paparazzi
@yvanehtnioj: And it seems to me that the "what about the tabloids" angle could be cleared up pretty fast: Only buy pictures that the people are posing for. Ta da! Then you have a reasonable expectation that they were okay being photographed. Hell, even us normals can untag pictures on Facebook, why shouldn't stars be in charge of what's out there with their face on it? I fully do not buy into the "Well they wanted to be famous, I DESERVE to see them in their pajamas/on a date/ eating while walking/ not wearing makeup/ etc." line of reasoning.
@yvanehtnioj: This is pretty much how I feel about it!
I'm a bit of a privacy freak, so some of my stance is definitely empathy based on how much I hate people even posting stuff to Facebook without my permission, but I also think the "not knowing if a shot is illegal" problem is not... actually a problem:
Tabloid editor looks at picture. It appears to be a telephoto shot showing celeb walking with their kid.
Tabloid editor thinks "oh, this might be illegal, but I just don't know for sure!"
Mag has two options: buy it and risk being sued, or choose to run a red carpet or event pic instead.
If this law leads to more magazines not doing something they shouldn't anyway (imo, running invasive personal pics is a NO) because they might get sued, I'm all for it. #paparazzi
@Angua van der Woodsen: Exactly! And another thing: everybody saying that the onus should be on the photographer not to break the law is missing two points:
1. The photographer will still be charged with whatever law he broke; it actually seems like a conviction is necessary before the next step of going after the tabloids; and
2. The current system inspires an absolute race to the bottom for the photographers. The ones that scream horrible things at celebrities to get them to make a face or sneak over their back fence to get a picture of their newborn are the ones getting rich. Under the new law, the papers would have an interest in buying pictures from photographers who did NOT do these things, thus rewarding good (and law-abiding) behavior. Hell, they might even set up a BBB for photographers. "Three stars: never been convicted of trespassing!"
Whenever this issue comes up I think of Reese Witherspoon and that children's party at Disneyland. A paparazzi actually fucking assaulted other children at the party to get pics of Reese and her kids. If the law does anything to stop that from happening, then I'm all for it. Actually, what I'd rather the law state is that it's illegal to take pics of celebrity kids when the parent hasn't given explicit permission (ie, tells the photog it's okay as some do, or if they're at a premiere or an event where they know they'll be photographed). The treatment celeb kids get is horrific for the most part.
@EkaterinaBallerina: Yep. And consumers should be way more horrified by it... I just don't understand who buys those magazines or clicks on those websites or blog posts... These are other people's children. You don't know them. Obsessing over their pictures is sick and weird. #paparazzi
How a law appears in print and how it is instituted are often, two very different things. In practice, I seriously doubt that this will result in too many civil lawsuits because very often the photos in question are set up by publicists and occasionally, by celebrities themselves. I think where it is beneficial is that it may lead to fewer invasive photos of celebrity children, family members and unauthorized nude photos.
Additionally, if this means tougher consquences and a new deterrent to keep paps from driving recklessly, stalking people, and/or doing things such as shoving bystanders, then it's a good thing. #paparazzi
As a non-celebrity resident of Los Angeles, I will say paparazzi can also be a public safety concern. Among other things that means police resources and money end up going to dealing with assholes paps, and considering the budget shortfalls, etc., I am all for discouraging assholes paps from being assholes not just because it's a personal inconvenience for celebrities but because it's bad for my city.
That being said, I am not sure how easily enforceable this is. I would assume the idea is to discourage photographers from taking illegal pictures out of fear they will not be able to sell those photos to news outlets who will be forced to look more carefully at the sources of their photos. Whether that will happen or not, who knows. #paparazzi
I agree that it's not really enforceable, but I think they are trying to really get at the top of the pyramid, if you will. Paparazzi will continue to do increasingly dangerous and illegal things to get pictures that Star magazine, et al. will pay top dollar for.
If you only target the photographers, then the ones who are able to cheat and get away with taking illegal pictures will see an even higher market value for their increasingly scarce personal photos. In that situation, the possible carrot is way more motivating than any potential stick.
You have to target this commodity from the top down, so that the market for these kinds of photos diminishes.
And yes, the top tier tabloids know exactly who they are buying from and which paps will "do what it takes" for the money shot. #paparazzi
The problem is that you can't make it illegal to be an asshole which it sounds like the law is trying to do. I think it's pretty horrifying when I see people getting surrounded by photographers to the point that they can't move. I've read some stars talking about how they get freaked out for their kid's safety which isn't right at all. Unfortunately it seems that the photographers are legally able to be there and are legally able to take photos so I don't see this sticking. I just wish that the paps weren't such huge dangerous jerks about it. #paparazzi
10/29/09
If the original ice cream owners were constantly in the news being run down on the street, mobbed, and harassed so that the intermediary could steal that brand ice cream to sell it to me, it's my responsiblity to not buy it or to make sure that it's not that particular brand. I know this site likes these pictures, but the "How could we possibly know?? What would you feel like if it was you?!" angle reeks of self-absolution. You (tabloids, etc.) know for a fact that you're part of the problem, now you have to decide if the money you make from perpetuating the problem is worth paying the fines.
People have been killed by the paparazzi. For what? So we can get pictures of who people we don't know are currently dating? What they're wearing? We don't let people that sell fake bags off the hook on this site, even though it's their livelihood, so why should media organizations that benefit from this bad behavior get a pass? It ain't ice cream, people. #paparazzi
10/29/09
10/29/09
10/29/09
I'll start with the rights of the press side. Basically, the press has to have the right to photograph, write, interview, etc, so that issues, topics, etc, can be displayed from multiple points of view and that news can be circulated to the general public, without the fear of retribution by the government. If you start putting limits on the press, then you walk into the territory of some non-democratic countries where an outlet has to be careful of what they say for fear of what the government will do to them.
With this right comes HUGE responsibility of the press; what to say, what not to say, how far to take things, etc. Is/isn't it ok to press a politician to the breaking point when questioning them about an affair, accepting bribes, not paying taxes, etc? Is/isn't it ok to press a young girl to the breaking point about an assault on her, her helping her parents rob people, her beating the snot out of another girl, etc?
I think there is a difference between respectable "press" and someone who spends $800 dollars on a camera so they can stalk celebrities, take photos, and sell them to a trash rag for hundreds, maybe even thousands of dollars. I would FERVENTLY hope someone who considers themself to be part of the press to have some intellect and know the difference between right or wrong and know approximately where that line is (they are human). In my view, the paparazzi are... a blemish to good journalism. I know some people love this stuff, but I can live without seeing unimportant people ("celebrities") in pictures without makeup, trying to leave a club, or just any and everywhere in their day to day lives. I know there is no way to differentiate between press and paparazzi, but I think the world of journalism should do more to self-police and stop these unsavory people from trashing the general image of journalism.
As far as personal rights go; I think you should be able to walk down the street without being mobbed by a group of people. I think its wrong that you try to leave a location, but can't because your vehicle is surrounded by people to the point you can't move without hurting someone. I think you should be able to take a flight without having to run to your gate to avoid people asking you stupid questions and taking pictures with which to critique every inch of your life later. I think you should be able to leave your home without fearing for the safety of you, your children, and your loved ones.
Do famous people/celebrities agree to a certain loss of anonymity when they become famous? Sure, I'll relent you that. I'll even admit some "stars" thrive on being in the spotlight, being followed by the paparazzi, and having their entire lives played out for all to see. But some don't, and thats where the problem lies. Some "stars" just want to do their job and all that goes along with it, and then just go home and be a regular joe. They don't want to have to sneak around everywhere. They don't want to have a store close just so they can go shopping. They just want to live a normal life, like you and me.
Is there a middle ground here? I think so. I think most "celebrities" would consent to the fact that they have given up some anonymity to do what they do. I also think that the journalism industry can do lots more to stop the unsavory practices of the paparazzi. Does this require the government getting involved? Not at all. Until both sides take responsibility though, who else will straighten out this mess? #paparazzi
10/29/09
I do agree that, to an extent, being a public figure requires relinquishing some privacy, but there has to be a line, and the above crossed it big time for me. #paparazzi
10/29/09
10/29/09
10/29/09
10/29/09
10/29/09
10/29/09
10/29/09
10/30/09
10/29/09
But ignorance of the law is not a defense--private property should be off limits, and I believe if a magazine takes photos illegally and profits, they'rea asking to get sued. #paparazzi
10/29/09
10/29/09
Would it honestly drive your publication out of business if you stopped taking pictures of people when they were going about their private lives? And if it would, good. freaking. riddance. #paparazzi
10/29/09
10/29/09
10/29/09
10/29/09
10/29/09
Did I mention I love this law?
10/29/09
I'm a bit of a privacy freak, so some of my stance is definitely empathy based on how much I hate people even posting stuff to Facebook without my permission, but I also think the "not knowing if a shot is illegal" problem is not... actually a problem:
Tabloid editor looks at picture. It appears to be a telephoto shot showing celeb walking with their kid.
Tabloid editor thinks "oh, this might be illegal, but I just don't know for sure!"
Mag has two options: buy it and risk being sued, or choose to run a red carpet or event pic instead.
If this law leads to more magazines not doing something they shouldn't anyway (imo, running invasive personal pics is a NO) because they might get sued, I'm all for it. #paparazzi
10/29/09
1. The photographer will still be charged with whatever law he broke; it actually seems like a conviction is necessary before the next step of going after the tabloids; and
2. The current system inspires an absolute race to the bottom for the photographers. The ones that scream horrible things at celebrities to get them to make a face or sneak over their back fence to get a picture of their newborn are the ones getting rich. Under the new law, the papers would have an interest in buying pictures from photographers who did NOT do these things, thus rewarding good (and law-abiding) behavior. Hell, they might even set up a BBB for photographers. "Three stars: never been convicted of trespassing!"
10/29/09
10/29/09
10/29/09
Additionally, if this means tougher consquences and a new deterrent to keep paps from driving recklessly, stalking people, and/or doing things such as shoving bystanders, then it's a good thing. #paparazzi
10/29/09
That being said, I am not sure how easily enforceable this is. I would assume the idea is to discourage photographers from taking illegal pictures out of fear they will not be able to sell those photos to news outlets who will be forced to look more carefully at the sources of their photos. Whether that will happen or not, who knows. #paparazzi
10/29/09
If you only target the photographers, then the ones who are able to cheat and get away with taking illegal pictures will see an even higher market value for their increasingly scarce personal photos. In that situation, the possible carrot is way more motivating than any potential stick.
You have to target this commodity from the top down, so that the market for these kinds of photos diminishes.
And yes, the top tier tabloids know exactly who they are buying from and which paps will "do what it takes" for the money shot. #paparazzi
10/29/09