I remember this, and it was so so so sad. I cried the whole day about the fate of poor Rivka and Gavriel. Also, watching the funeral with their orphaned son, screaming, "Mommy! Mommy!" was horrible.
@deeemer: It was horrific to watch the coverage. I cannot imagine the fear of those that were trapped while gunman stormed the buildings.
@AtelierCeleste:
Grief is not a zero sum game.
Deemer was pointing out a story that moved her (him? deemer, sorry). The story of Rivka and Gavriel was compelling, along with many others on that day-- husband and wife, she six months pregnant, young son that was carried to safety by another, and the funeral was televised. Just because one story in particular brought you to tears does not mean you do not greive for all of the victims.
I must admit I felt quite disgusted by the singling out of one couple from the many who died on that day and wondered if this is yet another case of exceptionalism. As though other people's lives were less than this particular couple.
@curiousgeorgiana: Thank you. I feel for all the victims - for some reason, Rivka - because she seems most like myself - struck a particular resonance.
@deeemer: It's why I cry at pictures of little girls grieving for lost fathers at military funerals. Why don't I cry at the coffin of the dead soldier or the widow? Because I was a little girl who said goodbye to her dad too often, fearing it would be the last time. We all identify with different things.
Because I'm black, does that mean that I'm only going to sympathize or 'identify' with black people who are victims of mass violence (not half as bothered about the 'other' victims)?
@AtelierCeleste: Again. It's not zero sum. I'm saying it's normal for some people to identify with a story that strikes them as similar to their own life story.
A pregnant mother dies, and you're pregnant. A husband/ wife dies and you're a newlywed. A college student is murdered, and you have a daughter that just started college far from home. Etc, Etc.
I didn't say anything about race. I'm talking about the situation/ life story of the individual.
I think the reason why this was so highly promoted was because they wee AMERICAN. They were from Brooklyn. Other people died, yes; it was a tragedy. But they were one of the few Americans. They mentioned other Americans who died as well, but what was as mesmerizing as that poor boy screaming for his mother? It's about ratings.
And how the hell can the US be "pro Jewish"? There are ews everywhere, all over the world. The US just tends to side with the Israeli government, even if the Israeli goverment is acting abhorrently.
ANYWAY, i can't remember who said it, but I totally agree - people identify with different things. I am sure some identifified with the people captured at the hotel. Others with the children. It all depends on your life situation.
Also, India is one of the few countries where Jews have never had any problems, except during certain occupations. To have Jews singled out in a normally-tolerant country was shocking. Which brings me to the final thing, there are so few Jews there, this was hugely shocking.
Why are we viewing this through the lens of the Jewish experience? 'India is the only country where Jews have never had any problems', what does this have to do with the fact that a GRAND TOTAL of 166 people died?
How many 'other' little babies were crying for their parents? Moreover, I'm sure the 164 'other' people who died were confident they were living in a 'normally tolerant' country as well.
@AtelierCeleste: Please take this conversation elsewhere - via private message or email. You want to critique media coverage? Fine. You want to complain about others' sensitivity towards/respect for the victims of murder or genocide - whether from last year or the early 20th century? No. It doesn't further the conversation, and, quite frankly, its over the line. Any more of this and I will bring down the ban hammer.
Tell your stupid assistant superintendent that he's 15 years behind the times. I took my girlfriend to prom in 1994. The seas did not boil, the earth did not quake, and society did not instantly crumble. A couple of guys came out of the closet a year later, but I'm pretty sure that would have happened anyway.
Don't back down. Prom is silly, overrated, and damn important in this society.
That condom story already had me cringing, but when I got to the part that they were packaged by shirtless men without being sterilized, just....ewww!
I'm guessing the men where shirtless due to it being hot (likely terrible conditions to work in), so I'm picturing them dripping sweat onto the condoms as they are being packaged. Yuck... #condoms
@formergr: I actually don't think regular condoms are sterilized. Legal ones I mean. There's no reason to sterilize them because what they go on and in aren't sterile areas. #condoms
@Tart of Darkness: Here's a little thing on how condoms are made. Everyone making them are wearing protective gear and it appears to be a clean zone that the condoms are being made in. Much different from condoms made by sweaty men without any face masks (presumably) and with probably limited hygienic options. Also, there's no use of veggie oil, but instead safer, more long-lasting lubricants.
@Dancingfrog: I wasn't implying that they are not properly made under clean conditions as regulated for the kind of medical device that they are, but they are not sterilized. They are made under "clean" conditions, not sterile ones. #condoms
@Tart of Darkness: Oh, I didn't mean to imply that you said anything. I just wanted to post that link because it's interesting, and your post was the next one up to reply to. #condoms
@Dancingfrog: And I wanted to say I did enjoy your link. When I rewrote my post because my first one was clumsy (er than what I posted) I left that out. People should know how their protection is made. #condoms
From the article: "But the family remains in need of money for everything from medical bills to rent to food. Big-hearted readers can send checks to the Jaycee Lee Dugard Trust, c/o Viewtech, PO Box 596, Atwood, CA 92811." #condoms
I don't understand how all these prom debacles happen. At my high school, nobody knew who was taking whom to prom until we got there. None of the teachers or administrators asked, we didn't need to tell anyone. And occasionally people went alone, or groups of friends went. I took a girl to my prom (I think she was straight, we didn't ever date or anything even though she was super hot and cool) and my BFF was our other date. Nobody really knew until we got there. Nobody cared, but even if they had we would already have been there, it would have been too late to ban us. #condoms
@Cimorene: Where I went, if you were taking someone from outside the school, you had to get approval-- but i think that was basically to make sure no one older than 21 came. #condoms
@Cimorene: Same at my school. I decided to go to my senior prom last minute because my friend broke up with her boyfriend and needed a date. We didn't alert school officials or anything. What does this principal think is going to happen if they let that girl bring her girlfriend? That everyone is going to start having gay sex on the dance floor? #condoms
@Cimorene: We only had to give the name of people if they didn't go the school. But I can't imagine my school saying no to a female bringing another female. #condoms
@Cimorene: Exactly. I went one year with a girlfriend so we could save on tickets (two tickets together were cheaper than buying two separately) and it didn't matter and no one cared.
@Cimorene: There was a well known no-same-sex dates at my school (1990s) so one gay couple needed to pair up with an an opposite gay couple, switch partners to buy tix and get in the door,and then switch partners later. Dancing? Well, the girls could dance together but the guys had to keep their distance if they wanted to make it home in one piece.
They were young, but they weren't stupid. They knew what would get them harassed by administrators and students if they pulled it at a school sponsored event. Most gay kids have already been harassed by faculty in school. Of course you ask first, before you buy the dress and shoes and rent the limo. #condoms
@Cimorene: I consider myself lucky. Somehow my high school girlfriend was able to bring me, and I had already left the school and was no longer a student. And it was an all girls Catholic School, in Kentucky, no less. None of the faculty or deans said a thing. And it was obvious I wasn't there as her friend and a former student. #condoms
@Cimorene: We had to give our names and our date's names when we purchased tickets at my prom. The prom committee then wrote all of our names ("Terry and Carrie!") on a giant piece of butcher paper in sparkly glitter ink and hung it up in the hall, so that everyone knew who was going with whom, just in case you weren't paying attention to the gossip.
Which made the top of the list ("la.donna.pietra and Lisa!") particularly interesting, in 1994. #condoms
@BytheSea: My school knew damn well that I would call in GLAAD, PFLAG, Amnesty International, Melissa Etheridge, and anyone else I could think of. They didn't even bother giving me shit.
I did get my tires slashed, though. I'm pretty sure that was by a fellow prom-goer. #condoms
"I don't really understand this (quite widespread) investment in understanding Jewish people as the perpetual victims. The last 60 years have constituted quite a turn-around in this situation, and I think it's about time we all recognize it. "
Said here on a Jezebel post- I can only imagine if it was said about any other minority, the uproar it would cause.
My feelings about Israel is complicated as well, but every time I reminded that I'm hated because of my religion I am so thankful and realize how important it is, to have a homeland. #synagogueshooting
Really important note: there is no sign that says "Holocaust Memorial" there. (Or, if there is, I didn't see it when I went there.) Berlin is filled with monuments that are deliberately vague.
@Acquanetta: I visited the Holocaust memorial in Boston once for a class project, and I was standing there watching the reactions of people who visited, and this is what I observed:
1. an orange neo-Nazi sticker placed on one of the pillars inscribed with numbers and meant to represent a death camp.
2. A family who walked through, eating an orange and throwing peels on the ground.
3. A group of high school tourists who pranced through laughing and talking, and not reading any of the inscriptions or reflecting at all that they were looking at a monument to a horrific genocide.
That the concrete blocks are covered in an anti-graffiti chemical that is made by the same corporation that produced zyklon b, the gas used in the death chambers during the Holocaust.
I learned that from a tour guide while I was there. I almost wish I didn't know that tidbit before strolling through. It made me feel...uncomfortable...
More Info: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3219199.stm
i was at the memorial a few years ago and it was one the most intense moments of my life. some of the concrete steles are enormous and the experience can be a little disorienting and of course very saddening.
that said, i'm very glad i went and suggest everyone who can visit does. the museum below is quite stunning too.
it was so serene when i was there, i can't imagine anyone running around, let alone jumping from one stele to another.
11/25/09
11/25/09
@AtelierCeleste:
Grief is not a zero sum game.
Deemer was pointing out a story that moved her (him? deemer, sorry). The story of Rivka and Gavriel was compelling, along with many others on that day-- husband and wife, she six months pregnant, young son that was carried to safety by another, and the funeral was televised. Just because one story in particular brought you to tears does not mean you do not greive for all of the victims.
11/25/09
I must admit I felt quite disgusted by the singling out of one couple from the many who died on that day and wondered if this is yet another case of exceptionalism. As though other people's lives were less than this particular couple.
Anyway, carry on.
11/25/09
11/25/09
11/25/09
11/25/09
Because I'm black, does that mean that I'm only going to sympathize or 'identify' with black people who are victims of mass violence (not half as bothered about the 'other' victims)?
Is this not.....wrong?
11/25/09
A pregnant mother dies, and you're pregnant. A husband/ wife dies and you're a newlywed. A college student is murdered, and you have a daughter that just started college far from home. Etc, Etc.
I didn't say anything about race. I'm talking about the situation/ life story of the individual.
11/25/09
I think the reason why this was so highly promoted was because they wee AMERICAN. They were from Brooklyn. Other people died, yes; it was a tragedy. But they were one of the few Americans. They mentioned other Americans who died as well, but what was as mesmerizing as that poor boy screaming for his mother? It's about ratings.
And how the hell can the US be "pro Jewish"? There are ews everywhere, all over the world. The US just tends to side with the Israeli government, even if the Israeli goverment is acting abhorrently.
ANYWAY, i can't remember who said it, but I totally agree - people identify with different things. I am sure some identifified with the people captured at the hotel. Others with the children. It all depends on your life situation.
Also, India is one of the few countries where Jews have never had any problems, except during certain occupations. To have Jews singled out in a normally-tolerant country was shocking. Which brings me to the final thing, there are so few Jews there, this was hugely shocking.
11/25/09
And the other deaths were not 'hugely shocking'?
Rly?
Again, the point is being missed.
Why are we viewing this through the lens of the Jewish experience? 'India is the only country where Jews have never had any problems', what does this have to do with the fact that a GRAND TOTAL of 166 people died?
How many 'other' little babies were crying for their parents? Moreover, I'm sure the 164 'other' people who died were confident they were living in a 'normally tolerant' country as well.
11/25/09
11/11/09
Dear Cynthia,
Tell your stupid assistant superintendent that he's 15 years behind the times. I took my girlfriend to prom in 1994. The seas did not boil, the earth did not quake, and society did not instantly crumble. A couple of guys came out of the closet a year later, but I'm pretty sure that would have happened anyway.
Don't back down. Prom is silly, overrated, and damn important in this society.
Love,
la.donna.pietra #condoms
11/11/09
I'm guessing the men where shirtless due to it being hot (likely terrible conditions to work in), so I'm picturing them dripping sweat onto the condoms as they are being packaged. Yuck... #condoms
11/12/09
11/12/09
[www.lifestylesplay.com] #condoms
11/13/09
11/13/09
11/13/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
[www.post-gazette.com] #condoms
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
Are there schools where you need to register your date? #condoms
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
They were young, but they weren't stupid. They knew what would get them harassed by administrators and students if they pulled it at a school sponsored event. Most gay kids have already been harassed by faculty in school. Of course you ask first, before you buy the dress and shoes and rent the limo. #condoms
11/11/09
11/11/09
Which made the top of the list ("la.donna.pietra and Lisa!") particularly interesting, in 1994. #condoms
11/11/09
I did get my tires slashed, though. I'm pretty sure that was by a fellow prom-goer. #condoms
11/11/09
10/30/09
You know what? Anti-Semitism hasn't. #synagogueshooting
10/30/09
10/30/09
"I don't really understand this (quite widespread) investment in understanding Jewish people as the perpetual victims. The last 60 years have constituted quite a turn-around in this situation, and I think it's about time we all recognize it. "
Said here on a Jezebel post- I can only imagine if it was said about any other minority, the uproar it would cause.
My feelings about Israel is complicated as well, but every time I reminded that I'm hated because of my religion I am so thankful and realize how important it is, to have a homeland. #synagogueshooting
10/30/09
10/30/09
10/30/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
1. an orange neo-Nazi sticker placed on one of the pillars inscribed with numbers and meant to represent a death camp.
2. A family who walked through, eating an orange and throwing peels on the ground.
3. A group of high school tourists who pranced through laughing and talking, and not reading any of the inscriptions or reflecting at all that they were looking at a monument to a horrific genocide.
It made me hate people a little bit.
07/23/09
Did you know....
That the concrete blocks are covered in an anti-graffiti chemical that is made by the same corporation that produced zyklon b, the gas used in the death chambers during the Holocaust.
I learned that from a tour guide while I was there. I almost wish I didn't know that tidbit before strolling through. It made me feel...uncomfortable...
More Info: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3219199.stm
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
that said, i'm very glad i went and suggest everyone who can visit does. the museum below is quite stunning too.
it was so serene when i was there, i can't imagine anyone running around, let alone jumping from one stele to another.