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All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
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ellaesther
12/18/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
I'm kind of late to this party, but: I just reviewed the book that Think Progress talks about! Yay!

And it's really good, and I really hope that the Tenet quote isn't what everybody goes for, because it's got a lot more to say than one crazy quote. Or maybe the Tenet quote will draw people in. Fingers crossed. It's really good. And kinda alarming.
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PilgrimSoul
12/17/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
per my one of my favourite liberal bloggers, Ezra Klein:

Obama's embrace of Warren might mean Obama's name is left out of the sermon, but will that be true for the next Democrat? Or the next? And so we'll have a situation where the preacher that Obama embraced is working aggressively to convince his flock to vote against Obama's would-be Democratic successors? There's a difference between reaching out to the evangelical community with respect and surrendering to it. Obama could have called on an Episcopalian or a Methodist or any number of more complicated and nuanced religious figures. Giving Warren this sort of political-religious opportunity effectively codifies his position as America's most politically important, and accepted, religious leader. That seems unwise, and unnecessary.

[www.prospect.org]
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SarahMC
12/17/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
Remember how Bush pandered to the evangelicals, and by the middle of his second term, many had woken up to the fact that they'd been had?
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Tart of Darkness
12/17/08

@SarahMC: So are you suggesting that Obama pandered to the hopeful and we're going to wake up in 2014 feeling the same way?
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PilgrimSoul
12/17/08

@SarahMC: oh god. well, they'll have kicked me out of the country by then anyway so I suppose that'll be your problem. :)
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SarahMC
12/17/08

@Tart of Darkness: I hope not but I am becoming suspicious.
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Ratinski
12/17/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
I love Barack Obama as much as the next American Democrat, but seriously - Rick Warren? Fucking RICK WARREN? Who the hell thought this was a great plan?
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SarahMC
12/17/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
You know what else I'd like? For there not to be an Invocation and Benediction at the presidential Inauguration.
In my dreams, I suppose.
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brendastarlet is on it
12/17/08

@SarahMC: sorry, I completely disagree. There's no better day for prayer. It just shouldn't become a political football, that's all.
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SarahMC
12/17/08

@brendastarlet is on it: Then we'll have to agree to disagree.
Who is playing political football, btw?

Obama has also appointed a Republican to be Sec. of Transportation.
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Tart of Darkness
12/17/08

@SarahMC: It would sort of underline that whole separation of church and state thing, wouldn't it?
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SarahMC
12/17/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
From Salon:
This time, though, the decision to get involved with Saddleback was actually not Obama's. The Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies, run by the House and Senate, put together the program for the swearing-in ceremony.
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PilgrimSoul
12/17/08

@SarahMC: It's his inauguration, though, and from what I understand, the politics of it are such that if he didn't want this guy there, the guy would not be there.
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SarahMC
12/17/08

@PilgrimSoul: I'm not arguing one way or the other, just adding information.
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Tart of Darkness
12/17/08

@SarahMC: Understand, but rhetorically speaking, shouldn't he get veto power?
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SarahMC
12/17/08

@Tart of Darkness: Absolutely. I'm not absolving him of blame here...
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Tart of Darkness
12/17/08

@SarahMC: I do understand your point and I'm not snarking at you, just commenting about the situation.
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MeganGlass 就是一个古代的三明治
12/17/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
Wait, no Stevie Wonder at the inauguration? Boo!
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sarcasticusername
12/17/08

@MeganGlass: i'm actually surprised by that too, given that michelle and barack are apparently both seriously hot for stevie. hopefully they'll find something for him to do.
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MeganGlass 就是一个古代的三明治
12/17/08

@sarcasticusername: An usher, maybe? Seriously, though, I'm bummed about it. The sun shines out of Stevie's belly button in my world.
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MadelineBassett
12/17/08

@MeganGlass: Perhaps he was scared of being dropped again.

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MeganGlass 就是一个古代的三明治
12/18/08

@MadelineBassett: Oh no! Sad day! Michelle, how could you?
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Sophie needs to study...damn
12/17/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
The daughter, Amal Saad Gumaa, said she agreed with the idea [of marriage]. "This is something that would honor me. I would like to live in Iraq, especially if I were attached to this hero," she told Reuters by telephone.

Methinks Amal doesn't keep up with the news very much. Otherwise she know that Iraq is a war zone and her potential fiance has already been kidnapped. Damn college kids.
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aubonpam
12/18/08

@Sophie needs to study...but isn't: It's really funny if you read her statement as a sarcastic one like I first did.
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PilgrimSoul
12/17/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
OK, trust me when I say my anger is so wide-ranging right now it may come across to you here, but honestly, I can't imagine how anyone can enjoy the inauguration when one of the major players in the company of performers is a person who believes homosexuality is akin to the practice of incest, believes it his god-given duty to lobby the President to be anti-choice but not anti-torture, and who was among the leaders of the efforts to defeat Prop 8.

You know, I know that this Presidency will be leagues and miles ahead of the prior one - even the prior several - but you know, it starts to look like willful blindness, this celebrating with the overt participation of someone who believes other people are, in some fundamental way, less deserving of respect than he is.
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Sophie needs to study...damn
12/17/08

@PilgrimSoul: Obama's playing "middle of the road" politics, see? He's so smart! Or catering to people who's ideas about the Law (RE: women's health rights, separate church & state, changing state constitutions to take away rights) are simply wrong. No, not on the right of the political spectrum, just illogically WRONG.
:wipes brow:
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Alexis
12/17/08

@PilgrimSoul:

You only say things that make me cheer and, upon retrospect, very angry with my country.
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hannahwilde
12/17/08

@PilgrimSoul: A political commentator sees it thus - "This move is also classic Obama because it is a signal to religious conservatives that he's willing to bring in both sides to the faith discussion in this country." You and me see it as giving a national platform to a bigot. I think we have a world of disappointment ahead.
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PilgrimSoul
12/17/08

@hannahwilde: I think people of faith should be fucking insulted that this is who Obama views as their "representative."

For Christ's sake. Pun intended.
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brendastarlet is on it
12/17/08

@PilgrimSoul: are people of faith only evangelicals? What about Catholics, Jews, Muslims, etc? Be careful how you use that term.
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SarahMC
12/17/08

@brendastarlet is on it: When was the last time a non-Christian person of faith did the Invocation/Benediction? Oh right, we've never had a non-Christian president (at least none who were out of the closet).
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PilgrimSoul
12/17/08

@brendastarlet is on it: that's exactly what I mean, though.
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brendastarlet is on it
12/17/08

@PilgrimSoul: @SarahMC: I agree, there should be representatives of all faiths -- a rabbi, an imam, someone from the eastern church. Maybe this discussion will raise his consciousness to the fact that two Protestants aren't the right message to send.
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khal02
12/17/08

@PilgrimSoul:
When you use the Lord's name in vain, you weaken your argument and turn off Christians who would otherwise agree with you. I would never disparage someone else's religious or agnostic beliefs. There are 2 extremes at play here...the fundamental Christians who think everyone who doesn't agree with them are condemned to hell and the nonbelievers who openly mock those who do believe and have faith. BOTH are wrong.
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PilgrimSoul
12/17/08

@khal02: I know plenty of devout Christians who "use the Lord's name in vain." In any event, the religious people I know tend to be much less bothered by my doing so than they are by these fringe figures representing their faith to the world.
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SarahMC
12/17/08

@khal02: Christians who are more offended by the taking of the lord's name in vain than anti-gay, anti-choice batshittery are not on my side. Sorry.
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khal02
12/17/08

@SarahMC:
There is no difference between your using the Lord's name in vain and Rick Warren's evil preachings. Neither one is one my side. Respect and understanding is a 2 way street and it seems to me in a lot of the arguments on choice and gay rights, there is no give and take or attempt at middle ground on either side. A person can love the Lord and believe in a woman's right to choose. It is not mutually exclusive to go to church every Sunday and have no problems with gays sitting in the pew beside you. Extremity solves nothing.
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SarahMC
12/17/08

@khal02: There is a HUGE difference. One supposedly offends a god who may or may not exist, the other impacts living, breathing, actual human beings.
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Gundam_Halo
12/17/08

@PilgrimSoul:

1) It's a inauguration, Obama isn't appointing the man to be his chief priest or anything

2) Obama has been, ever since he put his hat into the presidential nomination ring, talking about opposing forces; it's funny how people can't hate their opponent's 'us vs. them' attitude and then cry out that their opponents are wrong and should be shunned

3) Since this has turned into a discussion about faith, let's throw this into the mix -- religion, faith, and/or the practice of said beliefs should be destroyed. Religion is the opiate of the masses, a crutch for the weak

Yeah, I was blunt on the last one, I don't care much for religion
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khal02
12/17/08

@SarahMC: Um....using the Lord's name in vain offends a lot of people, myself included a"living, breathing, actual human being" as you put it. There is no difference between your mocking/questioning God and the preachings of Warren. Intolerance is a 2 way street and if you can't be sympathetic to the fact that many Christians are offended by using the Lord's name in vain how can you expect the people who listen to Rick Warren to understand or be sympathetic to your point of view.
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PilgrimSoul
12/17/08

@Gundam_Halo: you won't find me praising unity too often, though. I prefer my unity to be in service of, well, something good, rather than an end in and of itself.
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PilgrimSoul
12/17/08

@khal02: I seriously cannot believe you are fixated on the "using the Lord's name in vain" issue, which is at best a side issue, particular on Jez where people commit much worse acts of blasphemy every single day. Moreover, the point is less that I worry about hurting Warren's followers' feelings by calling a large swath of their beliefs "morally abhorrent." It's that they have no intrinsic or obvious right to trump other people's views with their own.
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PhDork
12/18/08

@khal02: There is a world of difference between hurting a person's feelings (by, for example, using an expression like "for Chrissake,") and legally disenfranchising that person from their full rights as a citizen.

I'm a bit more concerned about the latter.
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SarahMC
12/17/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
Seriously, if Obama makes his presidency an exercize in rolling over, Harry Reid style, I will die.
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pantsless economist...access RESTORED
12/17/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
on the bank thing, i don't really think that's so much an issue of the greedy companies paying out themselves. that's happening but the bigger issue is that they're terrified to lend money. and TARP won't *really* start working until that fear goes away.
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Jamie Sommers
12/17/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
Does anyone else get annoyed at references about "saving" politicians from having to live in their home states? This is the 2nd time I've read that today. The first one was about Vilsack and Iowa.

I know it's supposed to be funny and all but it's also kind of a tired reference. Is it really so hard to believe that people want to live in the so-called flyover areas? I've lived in DC. It ain't all that.
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fictitious
12/17/08

@Jamie Sommers: While we in NH do not want Sununu to return here, we would rather see him without electricity for a week (like the rest of us) than allow him to control the strings of $700b. Yikes!
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brendastarlet is on it
12/17/08

@ficticious: having lived in D.C. three times, I was just as happy to leave each time.
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PhDork
12/18/08

@Jamie Sommers: I do. I grew up in the midwest, and having lived on the east coast for 8 years, I've dealt with the biggest morons ever--they don't even know where the various midwestern states *are*. Newsflash, jackholes: just because you live in a eastern city doesn't mean you're not a provincial shit-for-brains.
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SomeAuthorGirl
12/17/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
George Tenet: "drunk on scotch, flailing about Prince Bandar's Riyadh pool, screaming about the Bush Administration officials who were just then trying to pin the Iraq WMD fiasco on him."

See? Political appointees are just like us, that's more or less what I did on Friday night. Sans the whining about WMD fiasco pinning, natch.
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sportz.star
12/17/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
I'll wait for Michelle to do an auto-biography, thanks Andrew Morton.

Um, HRC made JFK Jr fly in unsafe conditions? She's a pretty powerful woman, but that's going about 10,000 miles too far.
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brendastarlet is on it
12/17/08

@sportz.star: it wasn't so much unsafe conditions, but he was an inexperienced pilot on the type of plane he was flying, and he flew into a haze that came up off the ocean at dusk. That's one of the most challenging times to fly for any pilot, because you lose the horizon, and he shouldn't have been flying that plane at that time of day.
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Tart of Darkness
12/17/08

@sportz.star: But you know. That's how she is.
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Sophie needs to study...damn
12/17/08

In reply to All The Appointment Gossip You Can Handle, Including Aretha Franklin
Also, at one point I considered any members of New Kids on the Block as 'my hero.'

I sure am glad my dad didn't offer me up for marriage (since I would have screamed "Yes!"). 'Spose he had foresight.
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Brigit
12/17/08

@Sophie needs to study...but isn't: I dreamed of being 'chosen', after a private concert, by one of the Menudo's to be his wife, lol!

I would wear my crazy, deep-fuschia 80's flower girl dress and he would totally fall for me.
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