When are people going to realize that if MILLIONS OF WOMEN AROUND THE GLOBE are willing to risk cultural shaming, severe bodily injury, and death itself because they do not want to give birth, NO ONE can stop them from taking those risks, no matter how many damn laws you pass. It's pure misogyny: We will force you to undergo bodily torture for nine months and risk death just to give birth. Oh, and then you're on your own. Fuckers.
@La Chica Lucy: I have a real problem with this kind of thinking. Pregnancy isn't "torture"; birth can be very safe when it's supervised by a qualified physician or midwife. I think there needs to a be a real effort to curb the need for abortions in the first place and make sure that a much higher percentage of pregnancies are wanted ones. That means making sure that men are taught from an early age that there is never a good reason to rape a woman, that rape is any sex that doesn't involve full consent. Contraceptives need to be made more available and more affordable, and more mainstream so women can choose their relationships based on what's comfortable, not on their financial situations . And, BC needs to be more effective, which can only be done if the money is put into it, and maybe more BC methods for men, too. There needs to be more support for women who do want to keep their pregnancies - more prenatal support, more midwives and OB/GYN's, more flexible career options.
Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare - rare because women should be able to access resources to prevent unwanted pregnancy and shouldn't be at such high risk to be raped, not because pregnant women are forced to not have abortions. #antichrist
@Dancingfrog: I know pregnancy can be safe and not all pregnancies are torture. My point is these people do not care about women. At all. If they did, all of the things you describe above (which I agree with) would already be happening. #antichrist
I demand the immediate development of a kitty-appropriate swine flu vaccine. Quite discriminating against my family, public health officials and pharmaceutical companies and parents who think that their human children are *s0* great. #antichrist
@this moi!: It's not that kids are so much greater, they are just so much more annoying when sick. My cat hides in the basement when he is ill, but my son thows up on me. The squeaky (and in this case pukey) wheel gets the grease. #antichrist
@Trulymadlyme: It seems that it should be obvious, right?
I did my senior capstone for my BS last year in "Reducing stigmatization of mental illness among the African American population of Portland" (longest title ever), which really opened my eyes to the extent of the discrimination and lack of cultural competence amongst mental health professionals. There is a clinic in Portland through OHSU that offers culturally competent care specifically for African Americans and Africans as well as SE Asians. I enjoyed working with the providers at the clinic. #antichrist
But yes. A part of the mental health issues of pretty much every single brilliant African American I knew in college and law school is derived from the fall out of racism. You do deal. But it can sting. And depending on one's resilience, it can be utterly debilitating. It's fascinating work and I'd love to learn more about what you do. #antichrist
@Trulymadlyme: Oregon.
My professor for the capstone is an African American man who has mental health issues that went undiagnosed for decades in large part because of his race. Either he didn't fit "the mold" of someone with those disorders, or it wasn't suggested that he seek treatment because within his community there was a feeling of distrust of medical/mental health professionals (understandably!). I took every class from this professor I could as an undergrad and am now applying to do the MSW program at the same school to learn more from him. I am trying to find my place of where I will be able to best serve people of color within the mental health/human services field. It was heartbreaking and infuriating to learn and see how people of color in my community were being treated when they tried to seek help. #antichrist
'The imagery is "dream-like," which makes it somewhat removed from reality, and thus inoffensive'
This sounds like the logic that concludes something can't be offensive if it was intended as a joke. I mean, I'd support a poster with an entire ass hanging out. But the "logic" makes me giggle. #antichrist
I am so saddened and scared by the death of the three college students in North Dakota. The thought of being trapped and frightened and waiting for help that never comes is terrible. I hope that their families and the women that received the distress calls find peace. #antichrist
@polkadottedsheep: I know! Maybe not eating/drinking/sleeping etc due to all that kissing might be harmful in the long run...also I can't begin to imagine how numb those lips might be after that. #antichrist
@polkadottedsheep: Sounds kinda fun. Should we be lobbying our representatives for Paid Gestational Make Out Leave? It's an investment in America's future! #antichrist
@WaltzingMatilda: That's because Real Americans know that everything (and I mean everything) tastes better with some ranch. And thus we always have it on hand!
Related: I am considering experimenting with a sweet ranch dressing that could be used as a sauce on desserts. #antichrist
@BeckyIva: I lived with an American for two years, and Ranch dressing was one of the best things I got out of that household arrangement. That and, you know, a lifelong friend. Who is my lifelong friend in part BECAUSE she introduced me to the glory that is ranch dressing. Mmm. Ranch. Great, now I want some. #antichrist
@itsonreserve: Oh my god. That website... surely it is the work of the gods? Thank you so much! MORE experiments to carry out on my current flatmates. #antichrist
So do I, Malia! I just wish I had more students like you--most of mine only want to know something if they think they are going to use it in the future, and amazingly, they all seem to have crystal balls that tell them exactly what they will and will not need to know in the future.
@cocobanal: Preach it. I feel like I say so many times, "Fix this! If you send out resumes and cover letters that look like this writing, not only will they not hire you, they will laugh about you to all of their friends!" Maybe I should hire my friend who works in HR to come in as a guest speaker.
I do believe some of them have a passive-voice relationship with their studies. There is no sense that they have an active role in their education. They just sit there with their mouths open, accepting whatever comes along, and each paper/test/graded unit is another kind of event that just happens. Failing happens. Grades happen. Improvement, if it happens, just happens. Having once been like that myself, it's incredibly frustrating not to be able to get them to see, as I once did, that if you just DO THE WORK, suddenly the world is a much better place. #antichrist
@TheFormerJuneBronson: I hear ya. One of the classes I teach includes cover letter and resume writing. It's scary to see what they consider a good letter, and writing a resume is one of the things the students swear they won't need in the future. RIGHT.
@cocobanal: My cousin just had a revelation: he excitedly told me that he had a big WWI test coming up, but he'd started reading the materials like they were a novel, and it had been really interesting! And he aced the test!
He really is astounded by the concept that learning history like a narrative rather than as a rote recitation of dates and names can be fun. It's like he invented fire, he's adorable about it. #antichrist
@TheFormerJuneBronson: Yo. yo. I've been kind of depressed lately about teaching -- mostly about my own role in it, but part of the problem is that I can't tell what's due to my incompetence and what's due to their lack of trying.
This is what comes from receiving a set of papers that are, on average, worse than the last one. Yay. #antichrist
I hate my reaction to hearing about arty movies that contain very shocking, violent scenes, because it really makes me want to watch them, and yet because I have the constitution of a bowl of cherry Jell-O, I know I never will. This list so far includes Irreversible, In the Realm of the Senses, Salo and a few others I'm not recalling because it's early. I'd really like to be able to make up my own mind about these things, but I know I can't deal with some of the scenes I've heard about in movies like this. #antichrist
@whynotshesaid: For what it's worth, I think you could handle "In the Realm of the Senses," with little trouble. It's not that disturbing - just emotionally intense. And, if I recall correctly, there's only one scene with the potential to really disturb, and what's happened is not shown but merley alluded to. It's been years since I've seen it, though. #antichrist
OK, I'm probably never going to watch this movie because I don't have the nerves to watch movies with this amount of graphic mutilation.
That being said, I did read a synopsis. And from that, I can conclude that either the synopsis did not do the film justice, or that it's the kind of film I wouldn't be able to appreciate even if I did manage to watch it.
I guess there is a vaguely supernatural element present, but the wife's motivations sound dodgy. One minute she's a grieving mother, then she suddenly decides to start maiming the nearest man because of some things she was reading on gynocide? Except then she stops, and helps him. Then she's crazy again and mutilates herself. Then later she attacks the husband again, then he kills her.
I recognize that I'm summarizing the events of like 90 minutes into a single paragraph, but the characters sound insane and unbelievable. Obviously I haven't seen the film, and apparently the acting is top notch, but the underlying script seems so incoherent that even with great acting, I can't imagine watching the movie and thinking anything other than "What the fuck, this is insane and random."
Or am I looking at this all wrong, and it's supposed to be the sort of very artistic film where the specifics about the plot and character are almost meaningless, and all that matters is the emotional impression you get from scene to scene?
I suppose that's it, but it still sounds lame. The nonviolent scenes don't sound amazing either. They go to a forest named Eden (Biblical allegory or something, get it?). The husband sees a deer with a stillborn young (symbolism or something, get it?).
I'm not trying to dismiss the movie out of hand having never seen it, I just want to know if someone can confirm my idea of what it must be like. Specifically, it sounds like one of those movies where 99% of its value comes from how well the scenes are shot and how solid the acting is, because on paper, as a story, it sounds utterly retarded. #antichrist
@nworobes: This film works very well as a fable. Von Trier is pretty much a fabulist--if you look at this body of work, it's plenty obvious he's not a realist.
Revisit the definition of "fable" and then you'll see how the elements you quibble about make perfect sense in a fable context.
But I'm not sure why you'd do that, since you don't want to see the movie anyway. #antichrist
@snugbug: Thanks, that helps somewhat. I do want to stress that my previous post wasn't trying to outright say the movie was terrible, but I was definitely failing to understand in what framework the events of the movie fit into, because at face value they seem rather incoherent.
Thinking of it as a fable does help, so thanks for pointing that out. #antichrist
@nworobes: You can certainly think of it as a fable - there are fabulous aspects to it (talking animals, the end scene) - but I don't see the problem with viewing the narrative 'straight', so to speak. Here's my take, for what it's worth:
****SPOILER ALERT*****
In the opening scenes, Gainsbourg and Dafoe are fucking passionately, while their toddler, aged about 2, wakes up and toddles over to an open window, falling 5 floors to his death. They are stricken with grief, naturally. Being a logical, scientific man, he recovers and wants to move forward with life; but she cannot, spending weeks in hospital. She cannot get over her guilt, about sex, about his death, about herself as a failed mother, etc. He is a psychiatrist, and is convinced that he can help her recover. He persuades her to leave hospital and starts psychoanalyzing her, which she resists. He wants to find her deepest fear, and she says 'the woods', meaning their cabin which is in a wood. He takes her there and continues to force her analysis, eventually driving her nutso. Obviously there are many more aspects of the film, but that, in effect, is the plot.
In my opinion, this is actually damning of MEN, and their inability to listen or give credence to the female perspective, and their arrogant belief that they are always right and always have a solution for everything. In fact, I've yet to hear a detailed analysis of exactly WHAT about THIS film IS so misogynist, living as we do in this ocean of misogyny that we call mainstream culture. Can anybody help? #antichrist
@Diziet_Sma: Unfortunately I can't help as I haven't seen the movie, but I too wonder what is so misogynist about this movie. This post talks about it being so, but never really explains why. #antichrist
@Kakapo: Okay... but it also mentions misogyny specifically, as does a previous post on this film. That's what I'm asking about, not misanthropy. #antichrist
@Diziet_Sma: I haven't seen the movie, either, but I have seen a few of his other films that have also been labelled misogynist. I didn't agree with it then, and I have a feeling I wouldn't here, because, for one reason (as one reviewer put it): look at the male characters in his movies.
Where I'm from, media tends to have a very moralistic view on drugs. Any movie, in which drugs play any sort of part, is thus labelled 'drug-romanticising', without any concern as to how they're portrayed, or that the movie might actually portray a real problem, that won't just go away if you ignore it. Routinely calling von Trier's movies misogynist just because they deal with women in terrible situations seems like an example of the same type of thinking.
-- Having said that, I am sure there could be very good arguments for why this movie is mysogynist... #antichrist
I think I'll take my totally unprepared boyfriend to see this, after he spent all weekend bugging me to see Saw with him. Looks like he's in for a surprise #antichrist
11/04/09
(sorry for the shouting) #antichrist
11/05/09
Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare - rare because women should be able to access resources to prevent unwanted pregnancy and shouldn't be at such high risk to be raped, not because pregnant women are forced to not have abortions. #antichrist
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
As an African American man, I can only offer my two cents but, uh, duh. In other news, water is wet. #antichrist
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
I did my senior capstone for my BS last year in "Reducing stigmatization of mental illness among the African American population of Portland" (longest title ever), which really opened my eyes to the extent of the discrimination and lack of cultural competence amongst mental health professionals. There is a clinic in Portland through OHSU that offers culturally competent care specifically for African Americans and Africans as well as SE Asians. I enjoyed working with the providers at the clinic. #antichrist
11/04/09
But yes. A part of the mental health issues of pretty much every single brilliant African American I knew in college and law school is derived from the fall out of racism. You do deal. But it can sting. And depending on one's resilience, it can be utterly debilitating. It's fascinating work and I'd love to learn more about what you do. #antichrist
11/05/09
My professor for the capstone is an African American man who has mental health issues that went undiagnosed for decades in large part because of his race. Either he didn't fit "the mold" of someone with those disorders, or it wasn't suggested that he seek treatment because within his community there was a feeling of distrust of medical/mental health professionals (understandably!). I took every class from this professor I could as an undergrad and am now applying to do the MSW program at the same school to learn more from him. I am trying to find my place of where I will be able to best serve people of color within the mental health/human services field. It was heartbreaking and infuriating to learn and see how people of color in my community were being treated when they tried to seek help. #antichrist
11/04/09
11/04/09
This sounds like the logic that concludes something can't be offensive if it was intended as a joke. I mean, I'd support a poster with an entire ass hanging out. But the "logic" makes me giggle. #antichrist
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
By which I mean, that poster makes me want to bone. A lot. #antichrist
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
That makes me envision something like the contests where the last person to have kept their hand on a new pickup truck wins it. #antichrist
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
This is all anecdotal, of course.
And strange, of course. #antichrist
11/04/09
11/04/09
Related: I am considering experimenting with a sweet ranch dressing that could be used as a sauce on desserts. #antichrist
11/04/09
11/04/09
He's totally innocent.
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/04/09
Sorry. Frustrated teacher rant. #antichrist
11/04/09
I do believe some of them have a passive-voice relationship with their studies. There is no sense that they have an active role in their education. They just sit there with their mouths open, accepting whatever comes along, and each paper/test/graded unit is another kind of event that just happens. Failing happens. Grades happen. Improvement, if it happens, just happens. Having once been like that myself, it's incredibly frustrating not to be able to get them to see, as I once did, that if you just DO THE WORK, suddenly the world is a much better place. #antichrist
11/04/09
11/04/09
He really is astounded by the concept that learning history like a narrative rather than as a rote recitation of dates and names can be fun. It's like he invented fire, he's adorable about it. #antichrist
11/05/09
This is what comes from receiving a set of papers that are, on average, worse than the last one. Yay. #antichrist
10/27/09
10/28/09
10/27/09
That being said, I did read a synopsis. And from that, I can conclude that either the synopsis did not do the film justice, or that it's the kind of film I wouldn't be able to appreciate even if I did manage to watch it.
I guess there is a vaguely supernatural element present, but the wife's motivations sound dodgy. One minute she's a grieving mother, then she suddenly decides to start maiming the nearest man because of some things she was reading on gynocide? Except then she stops, and helps him. Then she's crazy again and mutilates herself. Then later she attacks the husband again, then he kills her.
I recognize that I'm summarizing the events of like 90 minutes into a single paragraph, but the characters sound insane and unbelievable. Obviously I haven't seen the film, and apparently the acting is top notch, but the underlying script seems so incoherent that even with great acting, I can't imagine watching the movie and thinking anything other than "What the fuck, this is insane and random."
Or am I looking at this all wrong, and it's supposed to be the sort of very artistic film where the specifics about the plot and character are almost meaningless, and all that matters is the emotional impression you get from scene to scene?
I suppose that's it, but it still sounds lame. The nonviolent scenes don't sound amazing either. They go to a forest named Eden (Biblical allegory or something, get it?). The husband sees a deer with a stillborn young (symbolism or something, get it?).
I'm not trying to dismiss the movie out of hand having never seen it, I just want to know if someone can confirm my idea of what it must be like. Specifically, it sounds like one of those movies where 99% of its value comes from how well the scenes are shot and how solid the acting is, because on paper, as a story, it sounds utterly retarded. #antichrist
10/27/09
Revisit the definition of "fable" and then you'll see how the elements you quibble about make perfect sense in a fable context.
But I'm not sure why you'd do that, since you don't want to see the movie anyway. #antichrist
10/27/09
Thinking of it as a fable does help, so thanks for pointing that out. #antichrist
10/27/09
****SPOILER ALERT*****
In the opening scenes, Gainsbourg and Dafoe are fucking passionately, while their toddler, aged about 2, wakes up and toddles over to an open window, falling 5 floors to his death. They are stricken with grief, naturally. Being a logical, scientific man, he recovers and wants to move forward with life; but she cannot, spending weeks in hospital. She cannot get over her guilt, about sex, about his death, about herself as a failed mother, etc. He is a psychiatrist, and is convinced that he can help her recover. He persuades her to leave hospital and starts psychoanalyzing her, which she resists. He wants to find her deepest fear, and she says 'the woods', meaning their cabin which is in a wood. He takes her there and continues to force her analysis, eventually driving her nutso. Obviously there are many more aspects of the film, but that, in effect, is the plot.
In my opinion, this is actually damning of MEN, and their inability to listen or give credence to the female perspective, and their arrogant belief that they are always right and always have a solution for everything. In fact, I've yet to hear a detailed analysis of exactly WHAT about THIS film IS so misogynist, living as we do in this ocean of misogyny that we call mainstream culture. Can anybody help? #antichrist
10/27/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
Where I'm from, media tends to have a very moralistic view on drugs. Any movie, in which drugs play any sort of part, is thus labelled 'drug-romanticising', without any concern as to how they're portrayed, or that the movie might actually portray a real problem, that won't just go away if you ignore it. Routinely calling von Trier's movies misogynist just because they deal with women in terrible situations seems like an example of the same type of thinking.
-- Having said that, I am sure there could be very good arguments for why this movie is mysogynist... #antichrist
10/26/09
10/27/09