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Katie Couric Flies Her Freak Feminist Flag

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Hana Maru
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
"This is what many of you said during the primaries, but I think there is kind of a huge difference between remarking on my attractiveness and hanging a noose on someone's doorway."

Megan, these two things are not on a par with each other, and I suspect you know that. The noose thing is more on par with progressives who talked about wanting to rape Sarah Palin, or the need to kill Hillary Clinton.

Remarking on the appearance of female news anchors and politicians isn't maybe/ maybe not sexist, it's sexist. It fits the established cultural pattern of oppression. It's an additional criteria that only applies to women, that they walk that tightrope. "Fluffy" and perma-grin" or "strident bitch" and "unemployed"

I've never quite understood what feminism means to you, as you often sound to me like a post feminist with the "it's all relative" "Jon Favreau is a hottie so lighten up" stuff. I'm glad reproductive rights matter to you, but they'll always be up for debate within the system that says our bodies are not our property and we exist for the pleasure of men.
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angryblackgurl
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
I will always love Katie!!
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Glitterbug (likes life shaken, not stirred)
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
There's no such thing as truly objective media. She should just get her views out there! If every woman who was too scared of angering or alienating people by identifying as a feminist aired her views, we'd probably be in a better position.
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Aesop's Foibles. YES.
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
I think she's awesome. Great at what she does, and also great for turning people's heads around a little. Being "nice" or "friendly" or whatever you want to call it does not equal weakness. A couple of years ago, I carved out a niche in a 100% male-dominated profession. I cannot tell you how many times I've been asked if I was the receptionist, if there was a "service man" someone could talk to, or not taken at all seriously because I'm young(looking) and appear to be very girly. Meanwhile one of the best things about my chosen line of work is that I can go out to the shop and curse and yell and tell filthy jokes and push cars and get dirty and shit. And BOY are people surprised when they find out that 1) I know what the fuck I'm talking about and 2) I do not get intimidated. Kudos to Katie for refusing to be fluffy and perky, but still rock her womanhood and intelligence. Also because of how murderously perfect she was when she handed Palin's ass to her in front of the whole world.
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roodles
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
yeah, yeah it's good that Katie Couric is a feminist and everything but her gender isn't necessarily the reason why no one took her seriously. After watching the "Today" show for years I have never been overly impressed by her reporting. She was known more for her legs and cuteness than her ability and was no where near the most qualified female journalist to anchor a primetime news show, just the youngest, cutest and most recognizable.
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jemandtheholograms
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
What has happened that being a feminist is considered a bad thing? Man-hating stereotypes aside, when did it become not PC to believe that women are capable of what they set out to achieve?
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Fridge Hussy : Is finally heading back to uni!
01/07/09

@jemandtheholograms: Cos they're not. Duh!

/sarcasm
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morninggloria
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
Funny, when I walk around on stilts kicking people in the shins and growling at a very low tone, people don't really take me seriously so much as get very scared and call the police. And then my parole officer gets pissed.
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Erica
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
"This is what many of you said during the primaries, but I think there is kind of a huge difference between remarking on my attractiveness and hanging a noose on someone's doorway." Yeah, but remarking how someone should be put physically in their place or deserve to be raped isn't a stretch.
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rednrowdy
01/07/09

@Erica: Yeah, but remarking how someone should be put physically in their place or deserve to be raped isn't a stretch.

...not to mention judgment calls made of people - but especially women - based on their body weight, or hair color, or what have you.

i don't think it's sexist to consider a person to be attractive and say it out loud...what's wrong with thinking someone is good looking and saying so? it's when those comments cross the line, and that's where people fail.
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the_decider
01/07/09

@Erica: Exactly my thought - I don't think talking about the isms automatically enrolls me in the Oppression Olympics. Why do people think that when women talk about sexism they are trying to win an "I have it worse" battle?

Both isms are capable of threatening our physical safety. For example, one of the reasons rape and violence against women is used during wartime is because of the many ripple effects it creates to crumble women, and the society of the enemy as a whole. Even though no one has openly declared war on women in America, look at the statistics: Somewhere in America a woman is battered, usually by her intimate partner, every 15 seconds. One out of every six American women have been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.* And what of the Not Rape epidemic?** This is no small deal. There is a silent war against women in America. I don't say any of this to belittle anyone else's daily reality; only to reinforce that women have their own fucked-up daily reality too.

When we talk about the isms, why do we have to quantify them? I am a minority in many ways, including race and gender. Sexism traumatizes me in the same way that racism does. It hurts just as bad. And most of the time it is never outright. I don't need threats. Racism and Sexism is practically in the air in this country, and I have been aware of both since I was a child.

Sexism should NEVER come in second place to racism. Women should NEVER feel like we have to quantify the prejudice we face. Because then sexism has belittled us further and done its job.

Prejudice and hatred should never be quantified with one group over the other.

I'm sorry my comment was a novel, and perhaps people will pick apart what I wrote, but that is my life experience.

But in a day any age when too many people are scared to even call themselves feminists, having Katie Couric say that she is one is a pretty good step in the right direction.

Amen.

*[www.feminist.com]

**[www.racialicious.com]
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yvanehtnioj
01/07/09

@the_decider: Well said.
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Jessi Ramsey
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
Still, it's a fair point and I like that it's being said that sexism is too acceptable, but we sort of all really need to stop with the -ism oneupsmanship.

Yes we need to stop with the oppression Olympics but it is not a fair point, it is an ignorant one. One is not more palatable than the other. They are just administered differently.
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sportz.star
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
I've always liked Katie. And I think proudly calling yourself a feminist is, as noted, rarer these days. Good for her on all counts.
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pandorasmittens
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
I give her credit for not lauding her personal viewpoints, as I believe that we have far too many "objective news outlets" airing theirs on a regular basis. This is not to say that Couric has never interjected any personal leanings into reporting and never will, but, you know blahblah discretion and such.

And I completely agree that if more people like Couric stood up and said, "I am a feminist" hopefully others wouldn't be less likely to balk at the word, which is of course, not bloody likely.
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pandorasmittens
01/07/09

@pandorasmittens: "as" likely.

This is what caffeine withdrawal looks like, kids.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
She's not that fluffy. She secretly shanked Willard Scott in 1991.
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Flowers For Algernon
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
Yh s Mgn...

SHT P!
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Samanthrax
01/07/09

@Flowers For Algernon: Seriously?
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sportz.star
01/07/09

@Flowers For Algernon: WTF?

Did I miss something?
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Flowers For Algernon
01/07/09

@Samanthrax: Sorry hated the article. Which i'm entitled to. Its so easy to judge other women as not being feminist enough. Ugh, and then to qualify her equating sexism to racism. Its all the same ignorant crap. Who cares if its a noose on your door or a boss holding a woman back from a job. IT SUCKS. That offended me as a man of color. THEY BOTH SUCK.
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Samanthrax
01/07/09

@Flowers For Algernon: Half Blood Prince, right?

She didn't say in the article that racism is to be taken less seriously than sexism, or that they were equal. She was talking about how they are both viewed to the public. Get off it!
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
01/07/09

@Flowers For Algernon: Then maybe say that in your original comment?
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mepo - Robert Cornhole invented it
01/07/09

@Flowers For Algernon: What?
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BeSarcastic
01/07/09

@Flowers For Algernon: Try logically refuting the article, then, as opposed to attacking Megan with a very childish response.
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MissyMcCLung
01/07/09

@Flowers For Algernon: I actually think comparing sexism to racism is apt. A noose on your door seems similar to people threatening to "rape and kill all you feminist bitches". They aren't the same for sure, but comparable - I'd say yes.
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pandorasmittens
01/07/09

@BeSarcastic: I would believe that the logical refute to the article would be that Megan insinuated (correctly) that individuals should stop trying to deduce which forms of social prejudice are worse than the others, However, the above sentence seems to negate that statement: "I think there is kind of a huge difference between remarking on my attractiveness and hanging a noose on someone's doorway". Correct observation or not, when read out of context, it could be construed in a negative manner.

This is not how I personally feel about the article, nor how I believe it was intended, but that's why sound bites and pulled quotes are so damning. They are easily read out of context, more often than not.
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NefariousNewt
01/07/09

@MissyMcCLung: Hatred of anyone for any reason is unacceptable. Racism, sexism, classicism, religious intolerance -- it should not matter what someone is, but who they are. They should all be repugnant in equal measure.
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morninggloria
01/07/09

@Flowers For Algernon: YOU SHUT UP, you big smelly poophead dummyface stupidbutt!

I can be super mature and constructive too!
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Jessi Ramsey
01/07/09

@NefariousNewt: Exactly. All -isms are equal just acted out differently. So when Curic (and many commenters here during the primaries) say things like " sexism is more palatable," that to me is ignorant.
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BeSarcastic
01/07/09

@pandorasmittens: Just telling him to be constructive, regardless of the particulars. But I understand, absolutely.
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MissyMcCLung
01/07/09

@Jessi Ramsey: But some -isms society seems to accept or even endorse (sizeism for example) and others we generally find repugnant. I think Couric was saying we find racism, generally, more repugnant than sexism.
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Jessi Ramsey
01/07/09

@MissyMcCLung: And that is not true.

Racism is just more covert and institutionalized. Sexism a lot of the time is overt. For example, sexist language is perceived as okay( men saying, "It was just a joke.") but society moves the racist language behind closed doors. When people think they are among like minded people, they will spew ignorance. This something that is acceptable in society. Just because we don't see it doesn't make it less so.
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pandorasmittens
01/07/09

@BeSarcastic: I know you were. It's just that if the comment were actually constructive, we could have had a decent conversation about it, utilizing facts, examples, and anecdotes of yore. The idea that there are people who believe certain forms of oppression are more or less acceptable-or whether that notion is indeed a societal and ethical truth-interests me.

I guess I should just hold my ramblings until Wednesday night Socrates Cafe!
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whatsername
01/07/09

@MissyMcCLung: Edward Said made this case beuatifully in his Orientalism theories. Some prejudices are indeed encouraged, especially where projection of our -isms onto some other group's -isms are done.

I also think that sexism and misogyny doesn't have the...for lack of a better word...power(?) behind it that racism does, and because of that the conscientisation that happened with race awareness has not yet fully happened with sex identity and awareness, albeit the many waves of feminism.
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Brigit
01/07/09

@Jessi Ramsey: I thought that she said that sexism to current society is more palatable than racism. Unfortunately, although the monster that is racism is still alive and well, society pays more lip service against it than it does sexism.
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JerseyGrrrl
01/07/09

@Jessi Ramsey: Once again you are perfectly explaining things on these threads! Really well put.

I do agree with Couric that sexist language is perceived by many as acceptable in mixed company and in many more settings, wheras, as you rightly point out, people have taken racist language behind closed doors among their own. I only agree with her sofaras language and culture are concerned. When you go deeper than that, into anything institutionalized or conditioned or socialized, then her comment makes no sense, but I do give her the benefit of the doubt that she was talking only about what people feel comfortable saying in public or in pop culture.
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Jessi Ramsey
01/07/09

@Brigit:Again, sexism is more overt and racism more covert. And to current society, which is still a society blinded by white privilege and liberal guilt, only the most obvious forms of racism are paid lip service. Institutionalized racism happens right there alongside obvious sexism and I don't really think that Curic, a white woman who would be blind to race relations that do not affect her, understands that.
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JerseyGrrrl
01/07/09

@MissyMcCLung: @pandorasmittens: I felt like the example given, comparing a sexist "compliment" with a threatening icon representative of a history of hate, is less that equal. If you can compare racism and sexism with an example, which seems difficult and not entirely necessary, maybe sexual assault would be a weightier and more relevant example to go along with another threat of violence? A sexist comment should be compared to a racist comment, both showing the stupidity of the person making it, not to an icon of hatred that can be construed as a physical thread in addition to a crude and undermining insult. But maybe I'm reading too deeply into this part of the post?
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Jessi Ramsey
01/07/09

@JerseyGrrrl: Yup,I agree. Certain aspects of sexism like sexist language and physical attacks on women are way more on the surface, easier to see but society at large does not reprimand these actions as they should.

With Curic's statements she simplify both sexism and racism. Racism is not just calling someone a slur or just disliking a certain race. It is a power struggle that happens under the surface.
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MissyMcCLung
01/07/09

@Jessi Ramsey: I would argue that it happens under the surface and behind close doors, as your rightfully assert, because it is less palatable, as Couric asserts.
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MissyMcCLung
01/07/09

@JerseyGrrrl: That wasn't Couric's example, but Meagan's. As I understood it Couris did compare comments... but I might be wrong on this.
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MissyMcCLung
01/07/09

@MissyMcCLung: Now that I have been on the internets all day my typing has gone to ass. sorry and please decipher above comments if possible.
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girlhero
01/07/09

@Jessi Ramsey: I really don't think statements like "a white woman who would be blind to race relations that do not affect her" helps your larger point.

The degree to which any of us experience racism or sexism is so heavily dependant on individual experience, which I would argue vary according to class as much as race. I don't think it's fair or useful to have a discrimination off! to quantify whose experience is more legitimate or representative of How the World Is.
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Jessi Ramsey
01/07/09

@MissyMcCLung: Racism is more covert because it makes it easier for the majority to deny racism and declare we are post race. Racism is covert because the majority never want to lose their hold on the minority. It only more covert because the history is different. But again, it is not less palatable. White women benefit from affirmative action way more than men and women of color do in terms of employment and education. People seem to palate that fine.
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Jamie Sommers
01/07/09

@BeSarcastic: Childish responses are pretty typical for Flowers For Algernon.
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Jessi Ramsey
01/07/09

@girlhero: I'm not saying that one is worse than the other. I think they are equally terrible just applied differently. But for Curic to say more is more palatable than an other is playing the oppression olympics and is quite frankly insulting to people who do expericne both racism and sexism.

Yes all experiences are different but a white person does not experience racism the same way a person a color of would. They have a white privilege to shield them from the institutionalized racism that goes on daily.
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Delia_Green
01/07/09

@Jessi Ramsey: Racism is more covert, but it is not less institutionalized, especially if we're talking about all of the world and all of history.
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Delia_Green
01/07/09

@Delia_Green: I mean racism is not more insitutionalized, not less.
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Jessi Ramsey
01/07/09

@Delia_Green:I agree with you here. It is more covert and institutionalized. I agree that sexism and racism are on equal footing just carried out by society in different ways. Am I misreading your comment?
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Jessi Ramsey
01/07/09

@Delia_Green: ( just saw your correction)

When I say more, I do not mean more than sexism I mean it is carried out commonly in an institutionalized way more so than in a people shouting racial epitaphs way.
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Raspberry Swirly
01/07/09

@Jessi Ramsey: I don't think Katie was saying that one is worse than the other. I think her point was just that, as a society, if someone is racist, that person is very clearly shunned by society at large. On the other hand, a person that's sexist has a lot of excuses made for them. I think she was saying it to point out that one is slightly more accepted as the norm, but neither should be.
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HuckleberryFriend
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
That is great. I've been disappointed by several strong women public figures who pull the "I'm not a feminist but..." crap.
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Fridge Hussy : Is finally heading back to uni!
01/07/09

@HuckleberryFriend: I wouldn't characterise this as the same as the non-statement-statement given by Kate Winslet. Her job requires neutrality, and that would probably be questioned by her peers and Real Amurricans alike if she made her feminist views public.
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Hana Maru
01/07/09

@HuckleberryFriend: When Michelle Obama did that, I was disappointed, but not surprised.
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BeSarcastic
01/07/09

In reply to Katie Couric Flies Her ~~Freak~~ Feminist Flag
She a journalist, so she needs to maintain a "open-minded" appearance in the public mind. This is why I'm not a journalist, incidentally, and why I free free to judge people and throw things at my TV.

Just wanted to say: Go,Katie!
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TheUptightMidwesterner
01/07/09

@BeSarcastic: Amen.
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