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Dov Charney Co-Opted Woody Allen Image Out Of Adoration
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Lin-Z [linguist on duty]
04/22/09

In reply to Dov Charney Co-Opted Woody Allen Image Out Of Adoration
"The memo goes on to say the billboard "was in no way intended to sell clothing""

You are a CLOTHING COMPANY, everything you do is intended to result in the SALE OF CLOTHING. So don't give me that shit.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
04/22/09

In reply to Dov Charney Co-Opted Woody Allen Image Out Of Adoration
I don't really care what you think about Woody Allen. He is in the right in this case. They used his image without permission. I'm curious if they even bothered to get any rights (from the distributer, studio, production company, etc.), as the movie is protected under copyright.
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YourScreenplaySucks
04/22/09

In reply to Dov Charney Co-Opted Woody Allen Image Out Of Adoration
Isn't it ironic, don't you think? It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a heavy wooden mallet to smack some humanity into Dov Charney. That or a mental colonic to wipe out all memoriy of all parties involved in this case.
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LaComtesse
04/22/09

@Your Screenplay Sucks: I watched a colonic being performed the other night on TV. Now I want to vomit every ten minutes...
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cwisto moweina has got yer goat
04/22/09

In reply to Dov Charney Co-Opted Woody Allen Image Out Of Adoration
I was thinking the same thing about his crotch
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saintbernadette
04/22/09

@cwisto moweina has got yer goat: Gotcha!
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baraqiel
04/22/09

In reply to Dov Charney Co-Opted Woody Allen Image Out Of Adoration
Honestly, I care way more that they associated American Apparel with Hebrew and Judaism than about any stupid drama with Woody Allen. Pisses me off. Judaism respects women, Dov Charney.
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LaComtesse
04/22/09

@baraqiel: Unless they're in an Orthodox shul and want to touch the Torah... or another man... or uncover their hair if they're married... or decide not to go to mikvah.

In short: it depends.

On the whole: absolutely yes, Judaism and feminism go beautifully together as it is commonly practiced.
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baraqiel
04/22/09

@LaComtesse: I think it's fair to say that whenever a religious sect bases its practice on literalism and rigidity in terms of textual interpretation, it's doing it wrong.

Although I will say that modern Orthodoxy has made great strides in the past couple of decades towards gender equality (at least compared to the Hasidim). And I think that perspectives on hair covering and the mikvah are often like perspectives from Westerners on the hijab -- the assumption that such practices are oppressive and that any woman who supports them is deluding herself. Of course a woman should be able to choose not to do these things if she so desires, but in my experience most Orthodox women wouldn't choose to.
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LaComtesse
04/22/09

@baraqiel: Oh, no one is alone in treating women as inferiors. I was raised Catholic. Hello! ;-)

Modern Orthodoxy (and women in it: Blu Greenberg, for example) have done great things and are having fabulous conversations on issues like mikvah, divorce, segregated synagogues, rabbinical ordination for women, etc. Just saying, it's not an across the board lovefest.
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Wibbles
04/22/09

@LaComtesse: I don't know if touching another man counts, really in the idea of feminism as being about true gender equality since an equally orthodox man's not going to touch another woman.
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LaComtesse
04/22/09

@Wibbles: They can't touch because the woman might render the man unclean if she is menstruating.
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baraqiel
04/22/09

@LaComtesse: No, definitely. But again, I maintain that Jews who believe that the Torah tells them to disrespect women and treat them as lesser are doing Judaism wrong. And hell, if they think they can say I'm not a real Jew, then I can say they suck at Judaism.
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LaComtesse
04/22/09

@baraqiel: Woot! And I can be my usual fake Jewish self and join you in that. (Seriously, everyone and their mom thinks I am Jewish. At first I thought it was just the nature of my job and schooling, I was a Jewish studies minor. But on the streets, the Lubovitch women try to give me candles every Friday afternoon and when I kindly hand them back and say I'm not Jewish, they look at in disbelief. I had one woman yell at me once and call me a "self-hating Jew" for "denying" it.)
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baraqiel
04/22/09

@LaComtesse: Yeah, I think that some Jews are convinced that they have Jewdar or something. I once had a guy walk up to me, out of the blue, and go, "Member of the tribe, huh?" Like...um...yes? Is it that obvious? Can you not be so creepy?

Anyway, as I'm sure you know, we love fake Jews. My high school was filled with Jewish kids and fake Jews and we used to say of the latter that they were "rolling with the Jew crew". Because we were cool like that.
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LadyFabulous
04/22/09

@baraqiel: This is why I love Jez. I can hear prospectives from women about how similar Jewish and Muslim women's experiences are since I don't really get that in my everyday life. There isn't a very large Jewish population here.
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TheExperience
04/22/09

In reply to Dov Charney Co-Opted Woody Allen Image Out Of Adoration
OK.

1) Putting a brand name on a billboard constitutes being an AD. Even if you're in ironic hipster company fully of ironic hipsters, ironically trying to be hip, it's still an ad. If Dov wanted to make a statement about the way he was being viewed, he should have put a picture of himself on the billboard, in a parody of the movie.

2) Woody Allen's personal life should have no bearing on the use of his image, and the lawyer has absolutely no right to say that a group of people who make skanky clothes don't think Woody Allen's image is worth $10 million so they're not going to pay it. It comes off as very flip and stuck up and seriously deluded if they think that's how they can do business.

3) Dov Charney, I fucking hate you. You are nowhere near as huge and awesome as you think you are, and when your clothing goes the way of Contempo Casuals in a few years, you will realize that.

I'm not pro-Woody Allen here, but this entire lawsuit reeks of jevenile name calling from kids who got caught with their hands in the cookie jar.
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easternsike
04/22/09

@TheExperience: Dov probably idolizes Allen, making his girls watch Woody's movies etc, and that doesn't surprise me. I love Woody Allen movies, and I am rarely offended by the way he treated sex or women. I like him because he is insightful, self depreacting and honest. I was too young to have an opinion about Soon Yi at the time the affair happened, but now, especially considering they are still together and seem to have a healthy relationship, I could really give a shit. Dov Charney on the other hand has nothing to offer other than a decent business model and an amazing ability to market sex. But he is no f'ing Woody Allen, and using Woody's likeness without asking, to defend himself or market to people was just ignorant. In my eyes Woody Allen has every right to sue Dov. Not because he needs it but because Dov deserves to get knocked on his ass for being an arrogant prick.
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Bunsen Honeydew
04/22/09

@easternsike: You've summed up exactly what I've been thinking since this rolled out.
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NefariousNewt
04/22/09

In reply to Dov Charney Co-Opted Woody Allen Image Out Of Adoration
They would have a case, except they slapped their logo on the billboard -- from "social statement" to advertisement in one moment of stupidity. Sadly, I doubt $10 million is going to bankrupt AA, and The Dovster is going to go right on harassing his staff and trying to get away with it.
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Bgirl_Hamster
04/22/09

In reply to Dov Charney Co-Opted Woody Allen Image Out Of Adoration
Let's go ahead an place bets on the settlement date. I'm saying May 15. Closest without going over, wins.
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MarissaExplainsItAll
04/22/09

In reply to Dov Charney Co-Opted Woody Allen Image Out Of Adoration
Oh Dov. Just because you like Woody Allen, doesn't mean he likes you. We all go through it dear. What you need is a good cry, lots of ice cream, and Alanis Morrissette.
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saintbernadette
04/22/09

In reply to Dov Charney Co-Opted Woody Allen Image Out Of Adoration
Ugh. I can smell his armpit from here.
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cwisto moweina has got yer goat
04/22/09

that was meant to be @saintbernadette, but it's kinda perfect on its own
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cwisto moweina has got yer goat
04/22/09

@cwisto moweina has got yer goat: ugh, why are my comments placing themselves in all the wrong places?
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Say that is cool
04/22/09

In reply to Dov Charney Co-Opted Woody Allen Image Out Of Adoration
Can anyone give us a translation of the Hebrew?
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saintbernadette
04/22/09

@ArgoKnots: See above. It says "Our Spiritual Leader."
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alouette
04/22/09

@ArgoKnots:

"The Yiddish text overlaying the image - along with that prominent American Apparel logo - translates to "the holy rebbe.""
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cwisto moweina has got yer goat
04/22/09

@alouette: what's a "rebbe"?
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baraqiel
04/22/09

@cwisto moweina has got yer goat: A rebbe (not exactly the same thing as a rabbi) is the leader of a community of Hasidic Jews. He is a Torah scholar and seen as extremely wise and learned. A rabbi, in non-Orthodox Judaism, has developed into a role of mostly religious leadership (approaching, but not the same as, a priest or minister), whereas a rebbe is the head of a community in every sense.
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cwisto moweina has got yer goat
04/22/09

@baraqiel: oh, I realized I could just googled it, but thank you
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