Ohmagah. Second-favorite movie of all time. On a side note, I heard an NPR segment last night on how much of the young German population knows next to nothing about the divided Germany. How can this be? #berlin
@Twerpsichore: I very much adore it, too. So dreamy and philosophical..
On another note, I'm surprised to hear about the NPR report. I've been an expat in Berlin since 2006, and Vergangenheitsbewältigung (="dealing with the past") is something every man, woman and child is extremely clued- into and sensitive about. Maybe there's a more acute awareness of that in Berlin itself, as opposed to other places in the former Western Germany, but still.. It sounds like a dubious conclusion to me. #berlin
@snugbug: To me, too. It's such recent history. And the German people are all about collective remembering. Mostly what I remember from my trip to Berlin 20 years ago is the Gedächtniskirche and the Wall. Was NPR trying for the shock angle? #berlin
@snugbug: I think you're right about Berlin being a center of awareness on this issue - I too lived there, and the western cities that I visited were less political in many ways, and especially on this point. Berlin is really hyper-aware of the fact that in order to rebuild their city, they have to be conscious of the very recent past. I love it. Berliners are incredibly responsible with their future, in a way that I've not seen in any other city. #berlin
My mom lost her job last april and remained jobless until mid-october. During that time, once every two weeks, someone in the neighborhood left a $150 Kroger (grocery store) gift card in our mailbox-which was how we continued to eat until she found a new job. I believe in angels.
I have no problem with angels; I have a problem with happy perky harmless angels (particularly when sold for $2.99), because angels in the Bible are FREAKING TERRIFYING and people aren't usually like, "Hey, angel, come comfort me!" They're usually like, "Oh, shit, God is PISSED."
It's the domestication of religion into something facile, mindless, and shallow that bothers me, and the modern happy-angel thing is a part of that.
@Eyebrows McGee: Yeah, that's the way I see it. Usually the appearance of an angel meant something nasty this way was coming. With a few happy exceptions, of course.
Your final statement is dead-on accurate. Most of modern Christianity now is happy-clappy-whatever makes you feel good in nature. Follow those televangelists and the dudes that run the megachurches because THEY KNOW THE ANSWERS. You don't need to read it for yourself - someone else will do the tough part of that assignment and give you the Cliff Notes version.
They never stop to think... what if these guys have it wrong?
@Gretchen: What also sucks about not questioning (never mind that everyone's terrified, not only of questioning the Bible, but of making sure what they're being told is consistent with the Bible, even though the Bible tells them to do so) is how someone was saying in another thread last week that they hope Rick Warren is busted embezzling funds so people wake up. That wouldn't necessarily help. How many pastors have gone down to date while people continue to treat them as isolated incidents rather than a perversion of the faith? Some of them are so clever, they don't even have to hide the way they use money anymore. Joyce Meyer is very open and honest about spending the money on nice suits and plastic surgery because God wants her to look good if she's going to spread his word on television. I had to leave the room when we were at an aunt's house and some of my relatives who go to Creflo Dollar's megachurch were saying "People saying he's exploiting us don't know what they're talking about. We bought him the second Rolls Royce for his birthday." Fuck that guy. You know who pitched in some of that money? Another aunt who needed a van to transport my 30-something cousin, who's been a vegetable most of his life, to and from the doctor. She finally got one and was calling everyone saying "God finally came through with a miracle!" (Although she's been praying for him to be healed since I was a small child, not for a van.) That shit got repoed. That church pulls down millions; they could've provided many members with used cars for the cost of his dumb Rolls, but whatever. Build another massive auditorium. Jerks.
I'm one of the people who think anything is possible. I've seen too much that is unexplainable in my life (I hold a master's degree and have an interest in biology and other sciences) to discount the existence of ANYTHING.
My friends have noticed that I do have an uncanny ability to avoid certain situations and places that turn out to be dangerous/creepy. For instance, one summer I rented a house with a friend. It was a two-story house in the mountains outside a small town in Colorado and was up for sale, but the owner was willing to rent to us for several months. We were not from the area and knew nothing of the history of the place. After the first night I refused to set foot upstairs. Ever. Again. I chose to sleep on the floor in the living room on the first floor. A month later we found out that a couple who had owned the house 15 years before had been murdered in their sleep in the upstairs bedroom. The next two owners had not lived in the house more than 6 months before they put it up for sale. Our landlord was owner #3 and had owned the home for less than a year.
Did I have bad dreams? See ghosts? Blood on the walls? None of the above - just an overwhelming feeling that I didn't belong there.
Wow, I can't believe some of the negative response to this post. If somebody wants to believe in something, then why not let them without making fun of them or deeming them "unintelligent" or "simple". I am from a Catholic family who believes in God, the Devil, angels, and demons. They also believe in the power of prayer and faith. They are in no way anti-science or illogical people. No, they are good people who have strong faith in a higher power. I don't see why anybody could mock somebody for that. If somebody wants to believe in angels, then good for them if it makes them happy.
I don't think people don't believe that human acts of kindness have to be attributed to some unknown supernatural force, but what about acts that just happen, miraculous acts that truly have no explanation. If Athiests can't wrap their head around the fact that some adults believe in angels,demons, etc. as someone upthread said, because they have a need for facts and explanation what is wrong with those who can accept that which does not actually have an explanation as something miraculous/supernatural? It's insulting to say that, it's like you're an adult you should know better than that, you might as well call someone of faith, stupid. I'm a Christian who believes in religion as more of a philosophy than an actual religion and sometimes it disturbs me that Athiests can be so quickly to dismiss just as much as it disturbs me that some can be so blindly faithful. I do believe in angels, ghost and the like & I also believe that there are evil forces out there as well. How can those of you who believe in "angels" not believe in the demonic counterpart? That seems silly, everything must have a balance. My rambling is over I just wish like others have said, that those who are Athiests can stop being so condescending to those of us that believe[we are not stupid] & I wish those of faith who choose to push religion on people could leave them alone as well.
@That's Not My Name: I am an Atheist and I dont have a problem with religion. People should be free to believe in whatever they want. I don't think most atheists judge religious people. As a matter of fact, I think often it's the other way around. Lots of religious people think if you dont believe in God, you dont have moral standards. That's what bothers me the most. But I can understand that people are people and can be judgmental regardless of their faith.
And I agree with what you said about angels and demons. It seems ridiculous to me too that so many commenters say they believe in angels but not demons. You sorta have to believe in both or neither, IMO.
@eirwen: Yes, you're right about the morals thing. That shit is insulting. I had a conversation with a woman who was trying to re-convert me and she was talking about how you need to believe in God to have morals and I said, "Actually, it's the atheists and agnostics I know who are more responsive to the needs of others because they aren't waiting for a god to swoop down and solve the world's problems. It's much easier when you see suffering and you believe in God to say, 'oh, he'll take care of it. There's nothing I can do.'" I know every religious person doesn't think that way, but my point is people often make the mistake of seeing the lack of a god only as a lack of judgment and forget that it also means the lack of a safety net.
Similarly, the Sarah Palin's and George Bush's of the world are less likely to take steps to stop global warming because they believe God's going to destroy the world anyway, so what's the point? And if you think Jesus' words about how "there will always be wars and rumors of wars" or how "the poor will always be with you" are the last words on those subjects, people who benefit from the suffering of others can hide behind the rationale that struggling to eradicate those things is futile. Never mind that we're also admonished to be good stewards of all our blessings (like the earth and its resources) and feed/clothe the poor and commanded not to kill.
@That's Not My Name: In my experience, athiests are actually the ones who are pretty comfortable with just not knowing and accepting that, when the available evidence isn't sufficient to support a particular conclusion, our two options are to (a) accept we don't know or (b) investigate further. The people that are uncomfortable with not knowing are those who feel a need to invent or latch on to fantasies on the basis of faith (ie. no evidence, nothing). As I said upthread I don't make it my business to go around insulting religious people. But if the discussion topic is religion and athiesm, I'm going to say straight out that I do feel it's patently stupid to believe (I mean 'believe', not 'entertain the possibility of') things that are illogical and absurd and lack evidence. And I think your point above about everything being balanced and therefore it not making sense to believe in angels and not demons is, well, a perfect example some of the extremely weak/faulty logic that religious beliefs tend to rest on.
@FrannyG: Thank you, I wanted to respond because I believe That's Not My Name is referring to my comment about the belief in angels. However, you said exactly what I would have responded.
I get sick of having people tell me I need to accept their illogical faith and can't think its stupid. Well I do.
As for your first statement about atheists actually being the ones comfortable with the unknown, absolutely! I never thought of it that way but to not have a faith or belief in something comes across to me as pretty damn comfortable.
I don't need anything to tell me why things happen if I don't know and can't come up with a logical explanation. I just leave it at that.
What happens after you die?
I don't know and quite frankly, don't really care either.
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/05/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
On another note, I'm surprised to hear about the NPR report. I've been an expat in Berlin since 2006, and Vergangenheitsbewältigung (="dealing with the past") is something every man, woman and child is extremely clued- into and sensitive about. Maybe there's a more acute awareness of that in Berlin itself, as opposed to other places in the former Western Germany, but still.. It sounds like a dubious conclusion to me. #berlin
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
12/22/08
12/22/08
It's a great way to see the movie. Highly recommended.
12/21/08
12/21/08
It's a lovely story, truly, but I don't see how it has anything to do with angels.
12/21/08
It's the domestication of religion into something facile, mindless, and shallow that bothers me, and the modern happy-angel thing is a part of that.
12/21/08
Your final statement is dead-on accurate. Most of modern Christianity now is happy-clappy-whatever makes you feel good in nature. Follow those televangelists and the dudes that run the megachurches because THEY KNOW THE ANSWERS. You don't need to read it for yourself - someone else will do the tough part of that assignment and give you the Cliff Notes version.
They never stop to think... what if these guys have it wrong?
12/21/08
12/21/08
12/21/08
My friends have noticed that I do have an uncanny ability to avoid certain situations and places that turn out to be dangerous/creepy. For instance, one summer I rented a house with a friend. It was a two-story house in the mountains outside a small town in Colorado and was up for sale, but the owner was willing to rent to us for several months. We were not from the area and knew nothing of the history of the place. After the first night I refused to set foot upstairs. Ever. Again. I chose to sleep on the floor in the living room on the first floor. A month later we found out that a couple who had owned the house 15 years before had been murdered in their sleep in the upstairs bedroom. The next two owners had not lived in the house more than 6 months before they put it up for sale. Our landlord was owner #3 and had owned the home for less than a year.
Did I have bad dreams? See ghosts? Blood on the walls? None of the above - just an overwhelming feeling that I didn't belong there.
12/21/08
12/21/08
My rambling is over I just wish like others have said, that those who are Athiests can stop being so condescending to those of us that believe[we are not stupid] & I wish those of faith who choose to push religion on people could leave them alone as well.
12/21/08
And I agree with what you said about angels and demons. It seems ridiculous to me too that so many commenters say they believe in angels but not demons. You sorta have to believe in both or neither, IMO.
12/21/08
Similarly, the Sarah Palin's and George Bush's of the world are less likely to take steps to stop global warming because they believe God's going to destroy the world anyway, so what's the point? And if you think Jesus' words about how "there will always be wars and rumors of wars" or how "the poor will always be with you" are the last words on those subjects, people who benefit from the suffering of others can hide behind the rationale that struggling to eradicate those things is futile. Never mind that we're also admonished to be good stewards of all our blessings (like the earth and its resources) and feed/clothe the poor and commanded not to kill.
12/22/08
12/22/08
I get sick of having people tell me I need to accept their illogical faith and can't think its stupid. Well I do.
As for your first statement about atheists actually being the ones comfortable with the unknown, absolutely! I never thought of it that way but to not have a faith or belief in something comes across to me as pretty damn comfortable.
I don't need anything to tell me why things happen if I don't know and can't come up with a logical explanation. I just leave it at that.
What happens after you die?
I don't know and quite frankly, don't really care either.
12/21/08