I love this quote from the Daily Ko's Diary of Got A Grip-
"Are you gonna sit there and tell me Mr. Gasbag/Mr. Congressman that that little clump of cells is a sacred treasure which must be saved at all costs and then turn around and say that providing healthcare for that clump of cells once the cord is cut is fiscally irresponsible and that the little bastard is now on its own?"
I thought it summed it up quite nicely.
as an aside- is this okay? As far as posting quotes from other sites? I don't want to be a worstie... #abortion
So abortion services in this bill should be restricted due to some moral stance against funding them with their tax dollars? What about my moral stance in NOT funding wars that we were mislead into, or abstinence only programs? Hypocrisy, anyone?
i've been told time and time again-don't vote for 3rd party people, vote for dems! well i think last time was the last time...i rarely get to vote my conscious, yet it's always proven that i should've. #abortion
@mirrorghost: I hear you. The one time I've voted third party was when Bob Casey ousted Rick Santorum, and as much as I hate Santorum, I just couldn't bring myself to vote for Casey. I took a lot of grief for that, especially from Democratic men. But you know what, it's not my job to be a team player when the team doesn't have a place for me on it. #abortion
What's been infuriating to me is all the people who think this is an acceptable loss, or who actually believe that moral outrage trumps women's rights.
A lot of people are refusing to actually look at this amendment for what it is, and instead concentrate on the notion that public funds shouldn't go to anything the public doesn't (by a majority, apparently) agree with. Which is all well and good until you realize that's insane. If this amendment was about refusing to cover heart surgery because half the people don't agree with organ transplants on a moral level, I doubt anyone would think that was acceptable.
This is about abortion. It's not about how public funds should be used or the acceptable role of government or whether tax money should go to things we personally don't like. It's about finding whatever way they can to chip away at choice. And in this case, effectively doing away with it for anyone who doesn't have means. It might as well be the Poor Women Don't Get to Have Choice Amendment.
This effectively says we will cut funding, and therefore access, to a legal medical procedure if enough people don't think you should have it on personal moral grounds. That should be terrifying.
We should be deeply worried about anything like this, especially when it's a redundancy (Hyde already severely restricts federal funding of abortion). Like the 'Partial birth" abortion ban, these things are not done in a vacuum.
This healthcare plan is not so incredibly awesome that it's worth throwing poor women's personhood and uteruses under the bus. #abortion
Fundies: You know the County/State Hospital down the street that your taxes fund? They perform abortions. Why? Because they are legal, necessary medical procedures. Get out of the fucking stone age. There's much more at stake here than your vanity about religion.
Senate Dems: Quit pandering and make good on your promises. If you fuck us on healthcare by watering-down everything relevant, we will not forget it. Cowards. #abortion
What's the point of believing in something if you don't act on its behalf? That's why I kept twitching whenever I read about a supposedly pro-rights Democrat who, nonetheless, voted for the anti-rights Stupak amendment.
They are not dithering but choosing to let bigotry beat back the basic rights of women and girls. My God, the assholes cheered the passing of the insurance "reform" bill! The House Democrats high-fived each other over a "health care" bill that would, in effect, deny medical care to women and girls even when our actual health is on the line!
They'll never change until they realize: you fight and win on gender rights or you get kicked the fuck out. I'm tired of being held hostage by people who, by the very fact they are holding me hostage, never intend to save me anyway. It is the public servant who should feel the heat, not the citizen.
The Dems in office are the equivalent of the boyfriend who cheats on you, calls you fat, flakes on you and lets his friends make fun of you. "But he says he loves me. I just can't be with anyone else." #abortion
Sometimes, I feel like the only way Dems (or Republicans, or anyone in political power) will be able to understand why abortion is my (and many others') litmus-test, my-way-or-the-highway issue is to actually end up in a situation where they, or their significant others, or a minor they care for, needs an abortion, and, due to the amendments and laws they've let slip by in the course of "fixing the bigger problem", it is prohibitively difficult, either due to laws, geography, or finances. While I don't wish an unwanted pregnancy on anyone, I feel like the only way they'll fight for what I care about so much is if the political suddenly became their personal, intimately so. #abortion
@Ipomoea: the problem though, is that all of these politicians have the resources to deal with those hurdles and/or simply go somewhere where they don't exist. i wish facing an unplanned pregnancy changed the minds of everyone who experienced it, but sadly that is not the case. for those who oppose abortion rights, their case is always special.....
@cantankasaurus rex: Oh, I know, I've read the articles about protesters yelling "BABY KILLER" one day and the next, getting an abortion, only to be back on the picket line. The cognitive disconnect is amazing. #abortion
The bill passed by a razor-thin margin with the Stupak amendment, without it, it may never have passed at all. Democrats and Republicans alike have staked Obama's political capital on getting universal health insurance passed. Right now he's in the equivalent of quicksand, what do you expect? You can't declare jihad on stupidity if you don't have a firm foundation.
If after the bill's passed and he's flying sky high on approval ratings and Dems are about to wipe the floor in the 2010 elections and THEN they're like 'psh abortion whatevs' I'll be pissed. I wish people would aim as much vitriol at the Americans who keep reelecting these buffons rather than at the 1/3rd of the governmental branch that promised not to be like George Bush and do whateverthefuck they please. #abortion
@battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch: What's important to understand here is that once they legislate even a sliver of our rights away, you almost never get that sliver back. So, I'm not really sure that this compromise is worth it...and I grew up without ever having health insurance, so this is a big deal to me!
@battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch: We're not just mad that this amendment is in the bill. Democrats have been iffy on abortion rights (fuck it, women's rights in general) for a long time now and we need to get progressives in office that will secure our rights because if I can't trust a Dem to do then why even bother supporting them? #abortion
@Triana Orpheus: I support them because they're better than the other options. Help us primary the blue dogs that make it harder for Democrats to take a stand if you want a stronger party. Apathy is not a valid solution.
@WashingMyHair: If it gets the rest of America health care, to me it's worth it. Governmental funding for abortion is nearly nonexistent and there's hardly a guarantee that the amendment will stand in the final bill anyway now that Obama has expressed disapproval. I'm a pro-choice individual who only got health care 4 years ago and firmly believe this is MORE important than having the perfect feminist bill. #abortion
@battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch:
I think that's short sighted, honestly. Access to choice should be a fundamental aspect of a public healthcare option for women. Hyde already limited federal funding, so not only was this redundant, but it's an active restriction of access to a legal medical procedure masquerading as a funding measure. That incredibly dangerous.
I don' t think anyone is arguing about this being the perfect feminist bill. Unless it was actually universal healthcare, that would be impossible.
But letting reproductive choice be something only those with means can afford because we let it go in the public option is irresponsible. It's precisely because poor women who can't afford healthcare also need access to this procedure that this matters so much. Otherwise we're allowing moral outrage to dictate the ability for other women to have body autonomy.
@battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch: The larger issue is that the Dems and the Obama Administration have done a crappy job since day one of selling progressive health care reform. They set themselves up to negotiate from a position of weakness, despite the fact that they have this enormous electoral majority. Obama placed a higher premium on the "bipartisan" process than on getting an effective bill, and that's why we are currently facing this untenable position. #abortion
@eclare09: It's hardly an 'enormous electoral majority' when over 40 house 'Democrats' vote AGAINST the health care bill even with the Stupak Amendment.
If the administration had tried to muscle anything through immediately and they would have been shut down so hard by both Republicans and the media. At least the American public has had several months to watch the Republicans flail in the wind, exposing them for the party of 5 year olds they are. Public support of the bill has INCREASED as this charade has gone on, it did not start out high at all. #abortion
This type of shit seems to be an running trend for the Obama admin, not just congress. At least the asshole republicans will stand together, no matter what the cost! #abortion
As a moderate Republican (social liberal, fiscal conservative), I was wondering if anyone could tell me why Democrats (especially Pelosi) are making such a push to rush this bill through. I mean, by the time it passes, it won't be any different from the health care we already have, only that it'll be a LOT more expensive. It's like paying for a steak dinner at a fancy restaurant, and then leaving after the salad because you're in a hurry. They've had quite a while to prepare this bill, but every version they come up with is even worse than the one before. Are Democrats afraid they won't get re-elected if they don't pass this bill or what? Where is the logic?
@futuremouse: Do they think passing their version of the bill is going to help them get re-elected though? It's basically pissing off everyone. Liberals are unhappy that it won't cover abortion or really provide universal health care, conservatives and moderates are unhappy about how much it will cost. It's a losing situation for everyone. I guess that's what confuses me, that NO ONE likes this bill, but they think if it passes it'll somehow help them politically. #abortion
@FrabjousDay: RUSH? Really? Complaining of rushing this bill is as smokescreen for the right. They don't want a bill, even if it took 2 years to go through congress. They sure as hell didn't do anything about it when they ran things for 12 years!
@WashingMyHair: Oh, I agree they're not rushing the process, it just seems like in the time they've had, they've dithered around doing God knows what, and now they're trying to push a crappy bill through ASAP. You'd think that with a year to do this, they could have come up with a better plan. #abortion
@TheGuvnah: I don't think they wanted to deal with providers. Insurance CEOs are easy targets, but the guy who's laid off from the hospital due to budget cuts won't be.
It would have been nice if they would have at least linked public plan to Medicare. Costs are aimed approximately at moon-trajectory right now. You can stay ahead of the cost curve with tax hikes as long as you can, but... #abortion
I know it's jarring, and that this is going to seem like it's coming from another space-time continuum, but caring people have to end their abusive relationship with opportunistic and bankrupt bourgeois politics. There's a third way, and it ain't soviet-style communism (aka state-capitalism). Marx, Gramsci, Dunayevsakaya...there have been many who came before us and have written very thoughtfully about human emancipation - we don't have to entirely reinvent the wheel here.
You can exercise your library card or continue to get funneled into these games. The Democrats control the executive branch and both houses of Congress, we're in the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression and the prior administration has been thoroughly repudiated! Maybe their "inaction" or "wimpiness" is something else? #abortion
I used to be all passionate about pro-choice and abortion rights. And then, I noticed a funny trend--as a lesbian, I'm always expected to be in solidarity with pro-choice straight women, but these very same women (both in my personal life and on a larger national scale) were hemming-and-hawing on my marriage, equality, and non-discrimination rights. Think about the huge impact lesbian activists have had on the pro-choice movement! But we've gotten very uneven support in return. So I've decided that abortion rights is NOT my issue, not until your average middle-American straight woman connects her right to choose to my right to marry my female partner. I'm tired of straight women benefiting from lesbian activism without reciprocity.
Obviously--I am painting with a very broad brush, and not all straight women are like this. And I'm also not saying that lesbians don't need access to abortion--of course they do. I'm talking about a lack of reciprocal solidarity.
@astalsb: Dude, I totally hear you. Just know that not all straight women are like that. I consider your right to marry your partner to be just as essential to liberty as my right to get an abortion. #abortion
@astalsb: What about fighting for what you believe in - period! I believe in equal rights for the LGBT community, but also don't automatically assume that they, in return, should be fighting just as strongly as I for animal welfare rights the way I do. #abortion
@astalsb: That reminds me eerily of how the Suffragettes felt about abolitionism. I remember reading Elizabeth Cady Stanton's bio and learning about how one of the main reasons African Americans got voters rights was because of all the work early feminists did. And after all of that, they didn't really get any help in return. History really does repeat itself. Unfortunately. #abortion
@whynotshesaid: I know there are plenty of women who feel like you do--which is wonderful. but as WashingmyHair said, we tend to think of our activism in terms of single issues, instead of interconnected ones. in theory, we all talk the intersectionality argument, but in politics and real life, it drops by the wayside. clearly, we can't all be activists on every issue and we have to choose places to put our energies. but i've seen it time and time again where progressive pro-choice women abdicate solidarity with GLBT issues, in order to avoid upsetting the right-of-center pro-choice women.
It's all about trade-offs. and this health care is a huge political calculation in trade-offs. and honestly--the prospect of health care reform and a public option far outweigh this amendment, in my admittedly cynical and bitter state of mind, post California and Maine.
@FrabjousDay: Except that Elizabeth Cady Stanton and most of the early suffragists were all about throwing black men under the bus in favor of white women voting. There were frequent appeals to white men, all "Black men (the horror!) can vote, but white women can't?! What's wrong with this country, where respectable white women can't vote, but unworthy black men can?! wtf?!"
Because black men could vote as of 1870 or so--it was part of Reconstruction (I mean, at least legally-- black people actually being allowed to vote is a whole other thing that didn't get resolved until, amazingly, the 20th century). Early suffragists and abolitionists were together, but they ended up getting split up my the dominant group (white dudes), who were like--we can do one or the other, people. Either black men are considered human, or white women (black women are SOL), but certainly not both--civilized society just isn't ready for that kind of social change! Let's wait until each state can decide for itself who is a person deserving of equal rights, because certainly these progressive judges and federal politicians are taking away states' rights to determine who gets equality and who doesn't!
Sounds similar, eh? The factioning off of oppressed groups, pitting them against each other, is part of the status quo's way of keeping all groups down. Can you imagine if everyone who wasn't a rich white dude just got together and was like "fuck you rich white asshole! I want my rights and I want them now!" Maybe things would change more quickly. But as it is people feel like they have to choose--I can be a feminist or a gay activist or a race-equality activist but I can't be all three! or, x is more important than y so fuck y I'm going to concentrate on x!
It's just playing right into their hands. If we want actual social change, we need to stop letting them split us up, we need solidarity. #abortion
@astalsb: You may have misunderstood what I meant. It seems that you aren't as passionate about abortion rights because you aren't getting the same type of passion back on GLBT issues. I'm saying that we all should fight for what we believe in. However, it comes across as petty that you stopped being passionate about abortion choice because straight women didn't fight for GLBT issues just as passionately. I'm passionate about equal rights for all. That being said, animal welfare rights, to me, is a connected issue. Yet, by your logic, I should be upset that more GLBT supporters also don't support more HUMANE laws and treatment for our domestic pets. #abortion
This always makes me think of that subplot in the West Wing where Josh was dating Mary Louise Parker, who was the head of some women's rights group. And the president farted out on abortion rights, and she cut Josh's phone line so she could start getting her shit together so she could do stuff to help preserve women's rights, and the pres got mad at Josh, and he got mad at her, and he was like, "If we don't get re-elected, you're going to end up with Republicans, and then you'll really be fucked!" And she was like, "That's your pitch? Really? Am I supposed to be happy about that, "we're not as bad as the other guys" bullshit?"
I can't remember what happens on the show, but I remember watching it and realizing just how powerless I am to actually do anything about the slow erosion of women's rights. The republicans are clearly not interested in women-as-humans, so that's not an option. But the ones who are supposed to be for abortion, pro-women-as-people, pro-women's rights, are just fucking us over. And we can't do a fucking thing about it. Don't vote for Obama? Even if you vote for a more liberal candidate, it's basically like voting for a republican. Like everyone who voted for Ralph Nader instead of John Kerry, and they were accused of letting Bush win. It's like--I don't want someone as centrist as Barack Obama as my president. He's a perpetual capitulator, he's not going to get rid of women's rights, but he's going to let women's rights disappear and get killed by those he wants to bi-partisan with. But I don't actually have a liberal, progressive option. I have crazy-fucker-conservative, or centrist. Those are my options.
Seriously if I could live in this world without being a member of a country, I would. I seriously want to give up my American citizenship in protest. But there's nowhere for me to go. #abortion
@Cimorene: I know what you mean. It's all well and dandy to tell the Dems that progressives won't vote for them anymore, but what other choice do we have? Sometimes there's a progressive in the primaries, but that's rare - and even though the Dems keep screwing us over, I am genuinely terrified of just not voting and letting the Republicans win. Maybe Dems would get the message and start genuinely advocating liberal values (but probably not - they seem to think they lose because they're not moderate enough), but in the meantime we'd have Republicans in charge and they would be worse. It's so frustrating. #abortion
@WashingMyHair: There was a truly pro-choice candidate in the primaries, who didn't believe in sacrificing women's rights for political expediency, who didn't see bipartisanship as a virtue, who had fought her whole career for women and health care.
She was winning more voters, but then the Obama/Pelosi contingent, with the DLC, awarded her delegates, and disputed delegates to Obama and forced her out of the race.
The Democratic party is not the party of women. They take us for granted year after year, as they pretend to pander to us. I'm voting Green until they stop pushing candidates like Obama over candidates with principles. #abortion
11/12/09
"Are you gonna sit there and tell me Mr. Gasbag/Mr. Congressman that that little clump of cells is a sacred treasure which must be saved at all costs and then turn around and say that providing healthcare for that clump of cells once the cord is cut is fiscally irresponsible and that the little bastard is now on its own?"
I thought it summed it up quite nicely.
as an aside- is this okay? As far as posting quotes from other sites? I don't want to be a worstie... #abortion
11/12/09
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A lot of people are refusing to actually look at this amendment for what it is, and instead concentrate on the notion that public funds shouldn't go to anything the public doesn't (by a majority, apparently) agree with. Which is all well and good until you realize that's insane. If this amendment was about refusing to cover heart surgery because half the people don't agree with organ transplants on a moral level, I doubt anyone would think that was acceptable.
This is about abortion. It's not about how public funds should be used or the acceptable role of government or whether tax money should go to things we personally don't like. It's about finding whatever way they can to chip away at choice. And in this case, effectively doing away with it for anyone who doesn't have means. It might as well be the Poor Women Don't Get to Have Choice Amendment.
This effectively says we will cut funding, and therefore access, to a legal medical procedure if enough people don't think you should have it on personal moral grounds. That should be terrifying.
We should be deeply worried about anything like this, especially when it's a redundancy (Hyde already severely restricts federal funding of abortion). Like the 'Partial birth" abortion ban, these things are not done in a vacuum.
This healthcare plan is not so incredibly awesome that it's worth throwing poor women's personhood and uteruses under the bus. #abortion
11/12/09
Senate Dems: Quit pandering and make good on your promises. If you fuck us on healthcare by watering-down everything relevant, we will not forget it. Cowards. #abortion
11/12/09
They are not dithering but choosing to let bigotry beat back the basic rights of women and girls. My God, the assholes cheered the passing of the insurance "reform" bill! The House Democrats high-fived each other over a "health care" bill that would, in effect, deny medical care to women and girls even when our actual health is on the line!
They'll never change until they realize: you fight and win on gender rights or you get kicked the fuck out. I'm tired of being held hostage by people who, by the very fact they are holding me hostage, never intend to save me anyway. It is the public servant who should feel the heat, not the citizen.
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see this excellent article [mypage.direct.ca] #abortion
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If after the bill's passed and he's flying sky high on approval ratings and Dems are about to wipe the floor in the 2010 elections and THEN they're like 'psh abortion whatevs' I'll be pissed. I wish people would aim as much vitriol at the Americans who keep reelecting these buffons rather than at the 1/3rd of the governmental branch that promised not to be like George Bush and do whateverthefuck they please. #abortion
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@WashingMyHair: If it gets the rest of America health care, to me it's worth it. Governmental funding for abortion is nearly nonexistent and there's hardly a guarantee that the amendment will stand in the final bill anyway now that Obama has expressed disapproval. I'm a pro-choice individual who only got health care 4 years ago and firmly believe this is MORE important than having the perfect feminist bill. #abortion
11/12/09
I think that's short sighted, honestly. Access to choice should be a fundamental aspect of a public healthcare option for women. Hyde already limited federal funding, so not only was this redundant, but it's an active restriction of access to a legal medical procedure masquerading as a funding measure. That incredibly dangerous.
I don' t think anyone is arguing about this being the perfect feminist bill. Unless it was actually universal healthcare, that would be impossible.
But letting reproductive choice be something only those with means can afford because we let it go in the public option is irresponsible. It's precisely because poor women who can't afford healthcare also need access to this procedure that this matters so much. Otherwise we're allowing moral outrage to dictate the ability for other women to have body autonomy.
It's not worth it. #abortion
11/12/09
11/12/09
If the administration had tried to muscle anything through immediately and they would have been shut down so hard by both Republicans and the media. At least the American public has had several months to watch the Republicans flail in the wind, exposing them for the party of 5 year olds they are. Public support of the bill has INCREASED as this charade has gone on, it did not start out high at all. #abortion
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Yes. #abortion
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It would have been nice if they would have at least linked public plan to Medicare. Costs are aimed approximately at moon-trajectory right now. You can stay ahead of the cost curve with tax hikes as long as you can, but... #abortion
11/12/09
You can exercise your library card or continue to get funneled into these games. The Democrats control the executive branch and both houses of Congress, we're in the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression and the prior administration has been thoroughly repudiated! Maybe their "inaction" or "wimpiness" is something else? #abortion
11/12/09
Obviously--I am painting with a very broad brush, and not all straight women are like this. And I'm also not saying that lesbians don't need access to abortion--of course they do. I'm talking about a lack of reciprocal solidarity.
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It's all about trade-offs. and this health care is a huge political calculation in trade-offs. and honestly--the prospect of health care reform and a public option far outweigh this amendment, in my admittedly cynical and bitter state of mind, post California and Maine.
11/12/09
Because black men could vote as of 1870 or so--it was part of Reconstruction (I mean, at least legally-- black people actually being allowed to vote is a whole other thing that didn't get resolved until, amazingly, the 20th century). Early suffragists and abolitionists were together, but they ended up getting split up my the dominant group (white dudes), who were like--we can do one or the other, people. Either black men are considered human, or white women (black women are SOL), but certainly not both--civilized society just isn't ready for that kind of social change! Let's wait until each state can decide for itself who is a person deserving of equal rights, because certainly these progressive judges and federal politicians are taking away states' rights to determine who gets equality and who doesn't!
Sounds similar, eh? The factioning off of oppressed groups, pitting them against each other, is part of the status quo's way of keeping all groups down. Can you imagine if everyone who wasn't a rich white dude just got together and was like "fuck you rich white asshole! I want my rights and I want them now!" Maybe things would change more quickly. But as it is people feel like they have to choose--I can be a feminist or a gay activist or a race-equality activist but I can't be all three! or, x is more important than y so fuck y I'm going to concentrate on x!
It's just playing right into their hands. If we want actual social change, we need to stop letting them split us up, we need solidarity. #abortion
11/12/09
11/12/09
I can't remember what happens on the show, but I remember watching it and realizing just how powerless I am to actually do anything about the slow erosion of women's rights. The republicans are clearly not interested in women-as-humans, so that's not an option. But the ones who are supposed to be for abortion, pro-women-as-people, pro-women's rights, are just fucking us over. And we can't do a fucking thing about it. Don't vote for Obama? Even if you vote for a more liberal candidate, it's basically like voting for a republican. Like everyone who voted for Ralph Nader instead of John Kerry, and they were accused of letting Bush win. It's like--I don't want someone as centrist as Barack Obama as my president. He's a perpetual capitulator, he's not going to get rid of women's rights, but he's going to let women's rights disappear and get killed by those he wants to bi-partisan with. But I don't actually have a liberal, progressive option. I have crazy-fucker-conservative, or centrist. Those are my options.
Seriously if I could live in this world without being a member of a country, I would. I seriously want to give up my American citizenship in protest. But there's nowhere for me to go. #abortion
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[www.actblue.com] #abortion
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She was winning more voters, but then the Obama/Pelosi contingent, with the DLC, awarded her delegates, and disputed delegates to Obama and forced her out of the race.
The Democratic party is not the party of women. They take us for granted year after year, as they pretend to pander to us. I'm voting Green until they stop pushing candidates like Obama over candidates with principles. #abortion
11/12/09