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Thu Dec 3
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Dylan Klebold's Mother "Haunted By Horror And Anguish" Her Son Caused |
When Everybody Loses |
Michael Jackson: A Life In Pictures |
Original material is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution.
Jezebel 
10/11/09
The point is more that being a parent warps your perception of your children to at least some degree, even in the best of parents. Even if it might have seemed obvious to others that Harris and Klebold were disturbed (and the accounts I've read/seen on the subject don't agree on that), one could understand why loving parents would have difficulty grasping that their kids could be murderers. I can't think of a single parent I know who wouldn't leap to their kids' defense if someone suggested their kid could potentially pull a Columbine, no matter how justified the person making the claim was.
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People at school thought I would kill them, and if you looked in some of my online journals (a much more secure option for semi-computer savvy kids with parents who have trouble turning on a computer), you might think I was a very disturbed individual who was planning awful things. But that was how I worked out my anger, frustration and rage at the people who had singled me out and harassed me. You don't know who has violent fantasies and would never want to harm and who has violent fantasies in order to act upon them.
10/11/09
In Dave Cullen's book, "Columbine" he talks about how depressed Dylan Klebold was (but how basically no one knew until afterward). I can believe this. I was only diagnosed with depression about three years ago, but my doctors think I've suffered since I was thirteen (I'm twenty-three). Sure, mine has never gotten so bad that I've ever truly considered suicide, but its easy to understand why Klebold thought it was the only thing left to do.
It never even crossed my parents mind that there was something else going on besides me "acting like a teenager." So I can understand why the parents never really saw it coming. It doesn't mean their bad parents - I think it has more to do with the fact that I was just that good at hiding things from them.
I have two amazing parents who love me. But I was still depressed for years. Sometimes, it doesn't matter about the parents you have and how you grew up. People need to realize that sometimes, there are other factors at work that are beyond the control of a parent.
10/10/09
[www.schoolshooting.org]
It lists all the school shootings that occur (including fights with guns)
10/10/09
So much grief - we should respond with much sympathy for all concerned.
I'm the mother of a 34 year-old man. We have been to hell and clawed our way back. I never considered myself a bad parent. I always did my best, but it's amazing that I didn't see what was coming...hindsight is indeed 20/20.
Please - feel compassion for all involved in this crime - there are many victims.
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The huge stockpile of weapons he bought on their credit cards and kept strewn all around his room should have tipped his parents off a bit.
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I wouldn't say the parents were totally unaware that their kids were acting out -- the boys did get arrested for theft -- but they probably assumed it was normal teenage rebellion. I'm sure most parents would think the same.
Besides, as Cullen points out, Eric was a psychopath and without him, Dylan would probably never had had the drive to kill himself, much less other people.
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I used to know a guy who was a textbook sociopath and he had the loveliest parents you could imagine. Sometimes evil springs from nowhere and nothing can prevent it.
10/10/09
How much do you have to do before you can be reassured? How can a parent be expected to know the difference between normal angry teen and sociopath, considering how invested parents are in wanting their child to be okay? And what about violation of privacy? When is it okay to snoop? How reasonable is it to expect a parent to suspect the very serious things about their kid that may justify snooping, as opposed to normal mopiness or whatever?
I can think of old friends whose parents were over-the-top paranoid and searched them constantly even though these kids were ridiculously good and others who never so much as opened the closet door when their drug-sniffing-trained dog pointed at it every single day. All these parents were out of touch with reality. All harmed their kids.
I really don't know the answers here. But I think it's a more delicate line than it may sometimes seem.
10/10/09
10/10/09
Harris and Klebold were charged with theft and tresspassing about a year before the massacre. Both kids were assigned mandatory counseling, psychiatric treatment and community service. In addition, Harris had to attend anger management counseling. Earlier on, he created a website that contained death threats about one of his classmates. His parents cannot NOT have been aware that he was an extremely troubled young man, prone to outbursts of psychotic anger. Ditto Klebold's parents.
I always thought of Harris as the mastermind--Klebold was a clinically depressed, deeply lonely and insecure kid who somehow latched onto someone with a stronger personality.
A good resource for all things Harris/Klebold is
[acolumbinesite.com]
You can view scans of Harris' journals there. If you can stomach it. They're beyond chilling.
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I did always feel that they were a little bit responsible too. If they knew their kids were depressed, suicidal or unstable, then they needed to take action. I get that teenagers are sneaky and manipulative--and that they may have been more so than the typical teenager--but if I knew my kid had some antisocial tendencies or mental health problems, you can bet your ass I'd be regularly searching his or her room and computer files.
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PS: OK, found the link:
[www.nicolenowlen.com]
The shooting victim's name is Nicole Nowlen. She's happily alive and thriving.
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Not vital information, but just thought it was interesting that it happened to coincide with Hitler's birthday, when they didn't even mean it to.
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This wasn't an act of sudden madness. These boys had an arsenal of weapons and exhibited all the signs of a psychopath for months before the events. In addition, the parents were nowhere to be seen for months and months after the events. I know this is probably a natural reaction to shame. But shouldn't they be ashamed? They didn't see the signs that were clearly in front of them.
That said, I realize that this is not the "educated" position. It is a gut reaction. And I know I should be above it (especially as a physcian). But I'm not. I just don't feel sorry for this woman.
10/10/09
I think that the Klebolds and the Harrises did the right thing by staying out of the picture and remaining silent after the massacre.
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10/10/09
If they had been 14 and 15? I think I'd be more apt to blame the parenting instinctively. But a major part of growing up and maturing is that you start to have your own private life, and a major part of parenting is starting to give that to your child. Parents, parenting resources, and kids of all kinds will have totally different ideas about where the lines are as you get older and want to define that personal space. Granted, if your child has had mental health issues in the past it's a different calculus, but there's still that balancing out of wanting to watch over them versus respecting their privacy in the hopes that they will respect and trust you. If your child is presenting pretty normally, I can imagine missing a lot because you're trying to respect their boundaries. My parents were somewhat strict and pretty attentive (in a good way), but there were plenty of things that I pulled off in my late teens of which they had no inkling (and for the most part, still don't) because they were letting me grow up a little and have my own space, which also means opportunities for secrets both benign and harmful.
10/10/09
They were both smart as hell, and endlessly manipulative of adults, law enforcement, and their parents. Before getting too judgy - read the book. Parents sometimes have no control at all over what their kids become. Especially if the kids are socio or psychopaths.
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