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Brigit
12/04/08

In reply to
I believe this is an important discourse to have. This is us, humans, at our worse. This shows the complex and horrifying effects of in-group/out-group resentments, group think, and compartmentalization. The thoughts, feelings, and actions of the perpetrators need to be understood- we need insight on warning signs.

We need to keep on studying and sharing what happened in the Holocaust and other modern genocides, and we need to develop ways to prevent the underlying 'basic ingredients' in them from occurring together again.
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bluebears
12/04/08

In reply to
Yeah, I'll be skipping. Docs/movies about the Holocaust give me nightmares for like weeks.
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Liz11685
12/04/08

In reply to
This looks awesome! The daughter seems to have never known her father- it would have been interesting if she had different memories of him- but she still feels immense pain at what happened in the Holocaust(which I have seen from other Germans of the second generation after).

I actually told a coworker the other day that I loved Holocaust documentaries, and it made me kind of sound like a sick freak. But I love them(well maybe love is the wrong word... throughly enjoy learning about it??) and they are so interesting. I have a problem!!!
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rollergirl76
12/04/08

In reply to
Did anybody see the documentary called "Nazi Scrapbooks From Hell"? I think it was on the History channel. It was fascinating. They feature photos of SS officers eating together, smiling, acting carefree and happy, and it's haunting because you know what is taking place and what these people are a part of. It's chilling, actually.
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nellicat
12/04/08

In reply to
But why? Honestly, why does the girl/woman need to know the horrors her father perpetrated? What purpose could that possibly serve? I am honestly asking here, because I don't understand why his actions are any reflection on her or why she would bear any responsibility to those he hurt.
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TurtleSpeak
12/04/08

@nellicat: Two words: Good TV.
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LindsayC: doctoral hilarity ensues
12/04/08

@nellicat: I don't know how old she was when all of this happened (not very old, I assume) but I'm sure she feels partly responsible, if only because her flesh and blood- the person who made her who she is- did these things. I can see how you would want to right a wrong perpetrated by your parents if you could.
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Lizawithazee
12/04/08

@nellicat: I'm guessing it's for the public discourse-- lest we forget kind of thing.
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blyr
12/04/08

@nellicat: Germany still has a complex, troubled relationship with the Holocaust...
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nellicat
12/04/08

@LindsayC: doctoral hilarity ensues: But that is totally fucked up. Why would we want to perpetuate this "sins of your father" bullshit? And it seems less like the daughter wants to correct any wrongs than that the victim wants to exact some revenge. To "make her understand." But to what end? If any member of my family did a horrible thing, then yes I am sorry the horrible thing happened, but I didn't cause it nor do I hold any responsibility for making it better. Or, I guess I should say, I hold no more responsibility than any other person not related to the perpetrator.
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elsbels
12/04/08

@blyr: Of course we do. It's only been 60 years. I wasn't alive then and my mother was born 2 years before the war ended, but... I don't know, Helmut Kohl once spoke of the "Gnade der späten Geburt" which would translate to the "mercy or luck of having been born late" and he had a point, you can't just brush it away and feign ignorance.
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PhillyLass
12/04/08

@elsbels: I don't see anyone advocating that we brush anything away or feign ignorance about the Holocaust-- it's incredibly important to remember what happened. And it's incredibly important to allow survivors to tell their stories and to hold Nazi war criminals accountable for their actions. But using the daughter of a Nazi as a kind of surrogate to absorb bitterness and rage meant for her long-dead father doesn't strike me as a recipe for healing. Helen Jonas should get to tell her story. People should watch that documentary and heed the warnings in it. But there's no good reason for Jonas to vent her anger on Hertwig.
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morninggloria
12/04/08

In reply to
I wonder if, in 60 years, the Bush daughters' daughters will want to meet with the granddaughter of a Gitmo detainee...
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CrossWord
12/04/08

In reply to
Oh English language. I had to read that a few times before I realized that she wasn't still serving as his maid after he was dead, but that the meeting occurred then.

Anyway, looks pretty awesome.
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TurtleSpeak
12/04/08

@CrossWord: I had to read it three times before I understood it. I am glad I'm not the only one, I felt pretty stupid.
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Kivrin
12/04/08

@CrossWord: Yeah, I first thought that Hertwig was the daughter of Goeth and his maid.
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
12/04/08

In reply to
That woman is incredibly stately and beautiful, in my opinion.
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Miss Scarlett
12/04/08

In reply to
I saw a meeting with these 2 a long time ago on Oprah (I think it was on her show) and honestly the daughter was kind of nasty to the other woman. She came very close to calling the other woman a liar when she was talking about the treatment of her by the father.
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rollergirl76
12/04/08

In reply to
I know this is terrible to say, but I found Ralph Fiennes in Schindler's List strangely attractive. Is there something wrong with me?
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R_Claw
12/04/08

@rollergirl76: No, I'm Jewish and I feel the same way, which makes the guilt even worse.
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
12/04/08

@rollergirl76: Not at all, we were just discussing on the Christian Bale post how I actually Roger Bart incredibly attractive in Hostle 2. I think Cute as a Button and I are going to start a support group.
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Kivrin
12/04/08

@rollergirl76: No, I think he was at his hottest in that movie. Don't know why. I have guilt about it, too.
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rednrowdy
12/04/08

@rollergirl76 & @Kivrin: : oh, he was ridiculously hot. it was all kinds of wrong. he was the embodiment of true evil in that film and i saw it in the theatre twice just because of him. and i am never attracted to bad boys or evil dudes or whatever.
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rollergirl76
12/04/08

@R_Claw...v.2.01 now comes with hope for the future.: @Vivelafat says Vive La Obama: @Kivrin: @rednrowdy: When he came onto the screen, I was mesmerized by his incredible eyes and his whole presence. The man was pure evil, and it made me feel weird that I could find this monster so attractive. Fiennes was so good in that role, too. He was frightening because you never knew what he was going to do next.
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hatepaperdoll
12/04/08

@rollergirl76: It's Ralph Fiennes. I find him attractive as Voldermort.
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rollergirl76
12/04/08

@hatepaperdoll: He's super hot in Strange Days, too.
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bluebears
12/04/08

@rollergirl76: Don't feel bad its probably because Ralph Fiennes is ridiculously hot.
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queenieinmanhattan
12/04/08

@rollergirl76: I actually think that's kind of the point. He's supposed to be both repulsive and fascinating, hence the casting of Ralph Fiennes, a bee-yoo-tee-ful and complex actor.
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beatrice2000
12/04/08

@queenieinmanhattan: On the IMDB trivia page, it said that Spielberg cast Fiennes for his "dark sexuality."

@iloveorange: I first saw it in junior high and it affected me, but by the third viewing (each time being in school), I had grown numb to it. It is disturbing and sad at times, but I was 13 when I first saw it, so I don't know what your reaction would be.
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queenieinmanhattan
12/04/08

@beatrice2000: Mmmm, bring that dark sexuality on over here. Damn.
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