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What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
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The Queen of No
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
All the sexuality and none of the sex. They are consumed with each other but he won't fuck/suck her. It's perfect for a girl not-yet-ready to go full throttle just yet. The idea of all-consuming love is all there is at that age, the reality would be too much.
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Shamrockette
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
This book series just made me feel crappy about being a virgin. It's all fine and good, but still, some of us "untouched" individuals aren't virgins because of choice.
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lastbroadcast
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
Twilight never really struck me as preachy, I was actually pretty suprised when I found out Stephanie Meyer was mormon. In the 4th book, Bella practically begs him to have sex with her, and attempts it (this is before they marry), so in that sense I suppose it wasn't moralizing but more realistic. But then she gets pregnant basically has a demon child...after marriage, so that to me kind of throws off the whole Christian values message of the book. I also agree how hard it is to find a good YA Book, but I highly recommend Making the Run by Heather Henson for anyone who enjoys the YA genre or just wants to feel nostalgic about their drunken teenage days.
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lastbroadcast
11/25/08

@lastbroadcast:
Oh erm, SPOLIER ALERT! A bit late there sorry. Though I take it most of you either have read it or don't plan on it.
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clevernamehere
11/25/08

@lastbroadcast: Umm... I'm actually in the middle of the first one and I don't think I'm the only one who recently started reading them. I don't really care because I don't think they're very good.
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LimitedLiabilityGirl
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
Oh Caitlin, Caitlin. No one can write like you, and that's a shame, but no one thinks quite like you either, and for that, we give thanks.
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scullymurphy
11/25/08

@LimitedLiabilityGirl: I know, I often find myself thinking, "what a waste of a good writer," when I read her stuff.
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MarianGabynoodle
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
Actually, the reason Edward doesn't want to consummate the relationship with Bella isn't because he's afraid he'll lose control and drink her blood. Since he's so incredibly strong (yeah, I know, swoon) he's afraid he'll literally f*$% her to death when he loses control over his body and lets his mind go. There are lots of lines in the books where he kisses her and pulls back because he's afraid he'll squeeze her too hard and kill her when he succumbs to the passion, etc etc.
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Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka
11/25/08

@MarianGabynoodle: Oh dear. Well, that puts a new perspective on it.

And is the book really this centered on whether they consummate the relationship or not?
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BlondeGrlz
11/25/08

@Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka: Yes. From the very first book every time they start kissing Edward gets all "Noooooo! I may kill you with my vampire strength!!!"

Although eventually they do it, so the big deal was all for nothing. Except by then it's married sex, so obviously it's much less passionate and dramatic.
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hollygirl
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
I almost barfed at rachel getting Married because of the camera movement.
I really really hate the way Caitlin Flanagan writes about unmarreid women. I pray for her husband to leave her.
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ArtfulSlinger
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
Oh and there has always been in an inherent sexism to vampire folklore, so its no surprise here.
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ArtfulSlinger
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
Bad writing is one thing, but bad writing that ruins the sexiness of vampires is quite another. Personally, I stayed away from this shit shack of a series for many of the reasons listed in the comments and original post so far, but my bigger problem here is why is such a crappy piece of work being forced on our young teenage girls when they could be reading something more interesting, filled with better stories?
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Cerridwen
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
I think teenage girls like this story for a whole host of reasons: the romance, the eroticism, the image of the man who adores you, the normal girl, because you are special and not only won't push your boundaries but actually restrains his own lust/love so that he won't hurt you. These are powerful things for adolescent girls just encountering and exploring their own sexuality. The fascination with sex, but the fear of what it will do to you, too. I can see how the ability to explore the lusty feelings of hormonal youth and skirt the (perceived or real) dangers, without the real fear of being hurt by it would be a big pull.
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polskabanana
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
I generally subscribe to the Henry James philosophy that "In art, feeling is always meaning," and that regardless of purple prose and sagging narrative, at the end of the day these books strike a chord with SO MANY PEOPLE that not to take them seriously and to write them off as trash is doing a disservice to the author, her audience, and the practice of storytelling. Credit where credit is due: Stephenie Meyer, completely outside of any aspiration to become the phenomenon she has become, wrote a story people want to read. That's important and meaningful.

As a writer, I read to be critical of other people's work, which has partly ruined the pleasure of reading for me, and if I can put aside all my qualms about the technical aspects of the Twilight series and just enjoy them, that says a lot to me about the power of the story and I'm so sick of people telling me I should be ashamed to love the books or the movies. Of course there are books better written than Twilight, but do I get breathless with anticipation when I read them? Most of the time the answer is no. There are lots of different ways a book can be good.
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rocknrollunicorn
11/25/08

@ohdnotthoreau: THANK YOU. I mean how many times have you been bored to death by a book that is beautifully written... by someone who is not a good storyteller? There is not a narrow definition of a "good book" in my world, fuck that. Do you want to read The Waves over and over again? I do not.

I haven't read Twilight yet but I ain't gonna hate. It's all so very Harry Potter, this trash talk. And I loves me some Harry (well Ron, really, but whatever).
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hollygirl
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
The fact that you fainted has convinced me to see this film. Hope you're better.
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BlondeGrlz
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
Maybe I'm remembering my sequels wrong but I'm pretty sure by the third book Edward is insisting they have the be married to have teh sex. Bella thinks it's part of his being from the 1800's or whatever but it seemed like pretty blatant purity talk to me.
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WaltzingMatilda
11/25/08

@BlondeGrlz is having a BlondeBoyz!: Eh, I thought there was some quid pro quo in there. I agree - it hints at morality - but she really just wanted to jump his bones. I liked that.

He wanted to get married - she didn't - but she wanted teh sex. So.. he said, fine - I will crush you with sex but only if you get married to me. I saw it as a negotiation. A negotiation that was completely backward to the usual "good girl withholds until ring on finger" talks. But weird nonetheless.
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WaltzingMatilda
11/25/08

@BlondeGrlz is having a BlondeBoyz!: btw - Congrats on the BlondeBoyz - I hope I am interpreting that right! :)
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fulanita
11/25/08

@BlondeGrlz is having a BlondeBoyz!: If I remember correctly, he was insisting they be married in order to turn her into a vampire, b/c then he wouldn't have to explain her absence to her family, etc.
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BlondeGrlz
11/25/08

@WaltzingMatilda...same McCain, less filling!: I think getting married was one of the (many) conditions of him turning her into a vampire. Bella wanted to have sex BEFORE she was undead, because she thought it would be way more awesome, so agreed to the marriage thing to get laid and get vampired. I just find all the negotiating sort of weird, most 18 year olds are capable of losing their virginity without too much thought. (And thanks, the BlondeBoy is due April 1st.)

@fulanita: I think she was going to go away to college to explain the absence, at least for a few years. And they had sex (at least once or twice) before she was a vampire, thus the ridiculous Rennesme shit.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
Wait, wait, I've got it. According to the bulk of my email, the answer is: 12-inch throbbing monster cocks. Do I win a prize?
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tscheese
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
Also, I would find Bella a lot more moving and endearing if she weren't a straight-up Mary Sue, but that's neither here nor there.
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rokenrolzombie
11/25/08

@tscheese: YES. I started the first book, got confused, and thought I'd wandered into Fanfiction.net. Also the writing put me off so badly, I never got into the story enough to be bothered by the rest of it.
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hollygirl
11/25/08

@tscheese: what's a Mary Sue? A Boring person?
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tscheese
11/25/08

@hollygirl: It's kind of a fan fiction term for a character who is basically one big perfect ball of wish fulfillment. Bella supposedly "doesn't belong", but everyone falls head-over-heels for her. She's beautiful, she doesn't make bad decisions, she always says the right thing. Basically, she doesn't have enough flaws to make her interesting or believable.

Here's a TV Tropes wiki about the phenomenon.
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Fate'sBitch
11/25/08

@rokenrolzombie: Holy crap I did the exact same thing when I found a free copy online. I had to go to amazon and read the first page they have scanned in order to really believe this was the bok everybody was raving about.
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rokenrolzombie
11/25/08

@katieb: in charge of the war on the poor.: I know! And I am not some literary high mind monocle wearing type who only reads untranslated Dostoyevsky, either. I read Stephen King, I read terrible splatterpunk, and shoot, I read Poppy Z Brite back when I was a vampire loving teen. But I could not get into Twilight. The adjectives! The self insertion! The sparkling! THE ADJECTIVES! Seriously. You don't need that many, man!

I appreciate a good storyteller and recognize there is a often a difference between a good storyteller and a skilled writer (and the absolute thrill of finding a writer who is both). But sometimes the quality of the writing keeps you from being able to get immersed in the story at all. At least this was the case for me.

Incidentally, I had the same issue with the Davinci Code.
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Fate'sBitch
11/25/08

@rokenrolzombie: The funny thing is I was looking for something that wasn't high-minded literature, something to get lost in and re-read and get unhealthily into. Instead I kept having to stop every couple of lines to marvel that it ever got published. Like tscheese said, bella is the worse type of mary sue, she has no life of her own, no hobbies, no interests, no plans past college, just a total blank state for Stephanie Myers to paint her wish-fulfillment onto. I mean her name is bella swann, it don't get worse than that.
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Raspberry Swirly
11/25/08

In reply to What Do Girls Want? Chastity By Twilight
Fainted? Seriously?
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