When I was living with my mom after college, I was also more likely to commit violent acts. Not due to more income (I had none) but because - I WAS LIVING WITH MY MOTHER.
When Randall Terry says "violent convulsions," does he mean like he's going to fling himself down on the floor and start rolling around, drumming his heels, waving his fists, and screaming, and then threatening to hold his breath until he gets his way? Because I would find that amusing.
For anyone wanting actual ~science~ and ~statistics~ regarding methods of Sex Ed and the results on the population, the Guttmacher Institute ( http://www.guttmacher.org/ ) has a series of up-to-date studies, and relevant recommendations. It's incredible. I don't understand how these statistics aren't used more in the fight for comprehensive education.
@Sanfo: guttmacher stats are ALWAYS used in the fight for repro rights including sex ed. not sure why you are assuming they aren't. they are the gold standard.
@TheGuvnah: I'm so glad to hear it. When I worked for a local reproductive health and education group, none of my coworkers had heard of them.
I've never heard these stats referred to by name in many of the articles I've read- I just wanted to share a fantastic resource.
""history will hold those in power responsible for the violent convulsions that follow."
Really Randall? Because it's been 35+ yrs since Roe v. Wade was passed and history still isn't holding them responsible. In fact, after each violent convulsion, you and the fucking wingnuts who follow you have been held accountable. FOR 35 FUCKING YEARS.
God, these people really are completely insane (and I mean these people, not anti-choicers in general. Most of them understand that violence only deters from the issue)
The Alamo thing makes me so nervous. In my experience, if the rest of the case is strong, that shouldn't matter too much, but I hate that jerkface and want him to rot in jail. Screaming "Get out Satan!" or whatever as he's raping a girl? WTF.
@tonightineed is actually Mrs. Ziegler-Spock: Unless these "convulsions" are the fantastic orgasms of all the educated and protected sex I'm having, then I'm not feeling 'em either. But if they are... would it be innaproppriate to say, "Giggety giggety"?
Correlation does not equal causation, though in general I do think abstinence-only education is a bad idea and probably is behind those trends.
I took health class two years ago in Arkansas, with some of those people who go around to schools and teach about abstinence, and it honestly wasn't that bad. They could have talked more about contraception, but overall they were pretty thorough and discussed a lot more than just abstinence.
@Plate2.18: My school's health education taught both and while I can't say I would go around promoting exclusive abstinence, putting it on a "menu" so to speak of sexual choices is a laudable. It is an option after all, it just shouldn't be made out to be the only one.
@Plate2.18: then that wasn't an abstinence only program. To be eligible for federal ab-only funds, programs need to meet 8 specific criteria that includes only discussing contraception in terms of its failure rates.
please don't be fooled by your experience. either that group/person wasn't actually a recipient of ab-only money or they were not following federal standards.
@TheGuvnah: They were following federal standards. Like I said, they could have discussed contraception more, but I suppose you can't talk about failure rates without revealing success rates, too.
I don't think abstinence education is a good thing, I really don't. But it was a whole lot more informative than the rest of the health class, which was taught by a football coach who worked movies into the curriculum as much as possible. I'm still not sure how Armageddon was relevant to the class.
I do want to make note of some really awful comments made on the floor of the House by Representative Todd Tiahrt (R-Kansas) on Thursday regarding the DC abortion ban. The Congressman called the use of local funds for abortion a "financial incentive" to "encourage" women elligible for the funds to have abortions. Linking class with race, Tiahrt asked if President Obama's mother would have "taken advantage of [an abortion]." He asked the same question about Clarence Thomas, which is what makes the racial element of his line of thinking so obvious.
OBAMA'S MOTHER IS WHITE YOU FUCKING RACIST PIG. THAT TAKES YOUR DISGUSTING, RACIST, CLASSIST, AND SEXIST COMMENT TO A WHOLE OTHER LEVEL OF DISGUSTING. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE ENOUGH RESPECT FOR OUR PRESIDENT TO KNOW HIS FUCKING LINEAGE??? WERE YOU NOT AROUND FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS?!
You don't deserve to step foot in my goddamn city, much less have any CONTROL over it. Go die in a fire.
Re: the Bush twins, this is not surprising, as I'd always assumed they had seen "My Date with the President's Daughter" a few too many times. They just wanted to hang with Eric Matthews.
After election day 2000, I was so depressed that all I had on my agenda was drinking and fucking. Teens shouldn't be excluded from these festivities (that is, as long as they are fucking and drinking with other teens, as I was). Of course, I was raised in the Clinton era, so I knew the value of a condom thanks to Ken Starr.
@CurtCole: Oh my word, I thought I was the only one whose takeaway message from the Clinton ridiculousness was leave no DNA nor computer trail behind!!
I'm always amazed by stories like these - was my suburban Dallas district the only one that taught comprehensive sex ed? We had it in fourth and seventh grades and heard all about birth control and such.
When I see clips like the abstinence-only education in Texas, I fall down on my bleeding-heart godless liberal knees and thank whomever might or might not be up above in a hypothetical heaven for the incredibly thorough and accurate sex ed I got through my Unitarian church. AYS FOR LIFE YALL!
Just a question, since I don't really trust schools to teach my future children about sex, at what age did you start discussing it with your kids (for those with kids) or when do you think its a good idea? I never thought 7th grade but clearly it can be an issue.
@picassobear: I really like the UU OWL program ( [www.uua.org] ), it's age appropriate and any religious affiliation is optional. I have a friend whose kids are going through the Kindergarten-age program right now (how to talk about body parts, how to recognize you are being molested, etc). it's education for kids AND parents
@archaeo_girl: UU shout-out! I met someone at a party who did Planned Parenthood sex ed programs and they use a lot from OWL in their programs (possibly because someone from my church is involved in the PP program as well).
Every kid raised their hand when asked if they can be abstinent. And she believes them. People who think kids don't lie should not be allowed to teach them.
And who doesn't enjoy seeing a grown man have a condom put on his hand by a teenager. No, not skeevy at all.
@Lorin Taylor: I'm not sure it was a lie in that situation. Anyone CAN be abstinent, if they want to be. But there's a big difference between agreeing with a teacher that you can be abstinent right after hearing about the awful side-effects of sex, and quite another to make the choice in the heat of the moment, when you and your partner are raring to go.
I don't believe that those kids were sitting there thinking "man, I am going to have so much sex when this class is over" while nodding along to the propaganda, though they might have been. It's mostly a matter of clinical classroom discussion versus actual real world feelings and experiences.
As a west coast Canadian hippie, I've had an incredibly comprehensive sex education. We talked about everything from abstinence (without pressure) to birth control, to making sure that when we did have sex that it was on our terms. We had discussions about respecting ourselves and our partners in bed, debated what constitutes sexual abuse (even within consensual sex), and learned how to use our own instincts and good sense to protect us from sexual predators.
What are these abstinence teachers thinking? If they assume the kids are going to get married one day, then when they do have sex they're going to need to know a lot more than 'penis goes in vagina, and then you get a baby (and/or an STD)!' And the parents that support this program? They're PARENTS, they should understand the complexities of sex, and want their teens to be ready to handle those complexities when the time comes! Your wedding ring is not going to magically transmit to you everything you need to know about sex as it slips onto your finger!
They might not have sex as TEENAGERS, but chances are they're GOING to have sex eventually, and this might be the only chance you get to really educate and prepare them for it! WHY ARE YOU WASTING IT?!
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I've never heard these stats referred to by name in many of the articles I've read- I just wanted to share a fantastic resource.
07/20/09
Really Randall? Because it's been 35+ yrs since Roe v. Wade was passed and history still isn't holding them responsible. In fact, after each violent convulsion, you and the fucking wingnuts who follow you have been held accountable. FOR 35 FUCKING YEARS.
God, these people really are completely insane (and I mean these people, not anti-choicers in general. Most of them understand that violence only deters from the issue)
07/20/09
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I also feel as though we desperately need to sit the world - or at the least the country - down with a flow chart of "Choosing Your Choice".
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07/20/09
I took health class two years ago in Arkansas, with some of those people who go around to schools and teach about abstinence, and it honestly wasn't that bad. They could have talked more about contraception, but overall they were pretty thorough and discussed a lot more than just abstinence.
07/20/09
07/20/09
please don't be fooled by your experience. either that group/person wasn't actually a recipient of ab-only money or they were not following federal standards.
07/20/09
07/20/09
I don't think abstinence education is a good thing, I really don't. But it was a whole lot more informative than the rest of the health class, which was taught by a football coach who worked movies into the curriculum as much as possible. I'm still not sure how Armageddon was relevant to the class.
07/20/09
07/20/09
OBAMA'S MOTHER IS WHITE YOU FUCKING RACIST PIG. THAT TAKES YOUR DISGUSTING, RACIST, CLASSIST, AND SEXIST COMMENT TO A WHOLE OTHER LEVEL OF DISGUSTING. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE ENOUGH RESPECT FOR OUR PRESIDENT TO KNOW HIS FUCKING LINEAGE??? WERE YOU NOT AROUND FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS?!
You don't deserve to step foot in my goddamn city, much less have any CONTROL over it. Go die in a fire.
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And who doesn't enjoy seeing a grown man have a condom put on his hand by a teenager. No, not skeevy at all.
06/24/09
I don't believe that those kids were sitting there thinking "man, I am going to have so much sex when this class is over" while nodding along to the propaganda, though they might have been. It's mostly a matter of clinical classroom discussion versus actual real world feelings and experiences.
06/24/09
What are these abstinence teachers thinking? If they assume the kids are going to get married one day, then when they do have sex they're going to need to know a lot more than 'penis goes in vagina, and then you get a baby (and/or an STD)!' And the parents that support this program? They're PARENTS, they should understand the complexities of sex, and want their teens to be ready to handle those complexities when the time comes! Your wedding ring is not going to magically transmit to you everything you need to know about sex as it slips onto your finger!
They might not have sex as TEENAGERS, but chances are they're GOING to have sex eventually, and this might be the only chance you get to really educate and prepare them for it! WHY ARE YOU WASTING IT?!