My friend worked at an ad agency and was sexually harassed by a female superior. It had happened a few times, mostly I think outside the office at functions and when both parties were slightly intoxicated, so my friend thought she was making a big deal out of nothing. We had urged her to contact HR and at least submit a complaint. She found out that there many women in her company who had the same issue and the superior was eventually fired. Its just crazy to think of so many women complaining about this and nothing being done.
This reminds me a lot of what happens whenever a case of an older female teacher molesting a (usually) adolescent or younger male student. I call it the Bill Maher Syndrome. Normally, Bill is a fairly sharp guy...but there are a few things he just gets completely dead wrong. And the idea that female rape/molestation is "hot" is one of them.
I think a lot of it is that we just don't see women as a "threat", sexually, to anyone...let alone other women. It's still sexism at work. And that weird form of lesbian chic where lots of people assume every woman is potentially bi-ish (although really, we all know they crave dick). It's so it can remain a male fantasy of lesbianism, as evidenced by that ridiculous quote above.
It makes sense to me that female sexual harassment would be taken less seriously for longer, since female harassment in general is. And then there's the larger issue of bullying, even in the grown up world that, if some of the comments here have been any indication...plenty of people just dismiss it as something you should "get over" or "deal with" and that it's your fault if you don't. Grown up harassment behaviors are, to me at least, just the adult version of bullying. Which, since we don't take it very seriously in kids, I'm not at all surprised we don't in adults until we have to.
I dislike the term "Girl-On-Girl" when talking about actual grown women. Doesn't that also belittle the situation? Making it seem "childish", like girl teasing girl?
@esimene: Every time they use the phrase "Girl-On-Girl Crime" there are complaints, but it was actually coined from the movie "Mean Girls" and I think it is the first time anyone put a name to the idea of females bullying other females. The author isn't just choosing to call grown women girls she is referencing the film, and the phenomenon.
Trivialization of female on female sexual harassment seems like an inevitable outcome of trivialization of female-on-female sexuality in general.
I'm bisexual and in a committed relationship with a man, but many of my friends don't see why I shouldn't have 'girls on the side'. Once at a party I ended up making out with a married woman (I was single at the time) and was torn up by guilt and my friends told me it was okay because she was married to a guy. I've had people tell me that a woman can't lose her virginity to another woman, or that sex or cheating 'doesn't count' with a woman. Even if that supposedly works out to my advantage (some sort of fidelity loophole or way to avoid the 'slut' label) it really really bothers me because it seems to lead to situations like this post describes. Also if I end up marrying a woman, I'd like that relationship recognized and treated just as validly as a heterosexual one. I don't like my real emotions and desires being viewed as some sort of show for male observers.
i wouldn't necessarily say that this particular case was treated dismissively because it was female on female harassment. i would hazard a guess that most sexual harassment claims get treated dismissively. i'm a man, and i work primarily with female coworkers. i have a boss i can't stand who has admitted to being a "former" sex addict, makes sexual comments towards women, ogles them, and generally makes most of them uncomfortable. not only that, he makes me uncomfortable. he asks prying questions about my sex life that overstep the boundaries we have in a worker/supervisor role. he's not my friend, we're not outside the office having drinks and bullshitting in a bar somewhere, and i don't want to hear anybody talk shit or imply that my relationships with any of the women i work with are anything more than friendly and professional. i don't like working around him, and many people have filed complaints. absolutely zero fucking action on anything other than an internal investigation in which many of the harassed women refused to speak up. i complain, and i'm told to "grow the fuck up" essentially. so yes, this is unfortunate for the woman involved but at least she got some vindication for having to endure such harassment. more often than not this stuff goes nowhere. rant over/
@J.D.Regent: I thought that only happened with men, like women are somehow less homophobic, because female homosexuality hasn't been historically treated as an aberration in which a demonic [blah blah blah blah etc etc etc] but as non-existent
Part of the reason that I'd find sexual harassment by a women less threatening is the fact that I am confident that I could take most women in a fight, or that I'd at least have a chance of beating her up if her talk translated to violence.
With men, I'm afraid that I could always be overpowered.
For Lawyer Jezebels - in your experience, are men in law more douchey than the general age-matched population? Articles like this make it seem that way.
In my experience, in medicine, most men don't seem to think of themselves as smarter or better than women, but a subset do tend to prefer relationships that subscribe to traditional gender roles. Obviously, small sample sizes and generalizations, but the image of douchey, self important man-lawyer seems pretty prevalent and I was wondering if it's grounded in experience.
@funzette: I have had exposure to a number of douchey lawyers - male and female. Yes, self-important man-douche is prevalent in this profession(anecdotal evidence, of course). It all starts long before they pass the bar, though.
@funzette: Yes. My new law firm is a frat house. There are only three women attorneys and the one who's been here the longest started in February. The dudeliness is insufferable.
@funzette: Hard to say, since I live in Phoenix, which has another entire subset of douche: Scottsdale douche. Lawyer douches are not Scottsdale douches. But...yeah, male lawyers can be pretty unpleasant. The self-importance is off the charts.
@funzette: yes but I have also met some women lawyers that are real winners themselves. Its the continuous pissing contest the make out of their entire lives.
Oh my God, that is such incredibly over the top, grade-A, scumbag Sexual Harassment. But it's less of a "big deal" because it was a woman doing the harassing?? Um, how? And: I'm also thinking that the retaliatory actions taken against the victim could very well happen to a female victim of sexual harassment by a male colleague. It's unfortunate, surely, but I don't think it'd be all that different in a male/female situation. In either case, it's wrong and extremely unfair, but I'm quite certain it happens in lots of different situations, especially those involving a subordinate making complaints about a superior. I'm glad she's suing, because she was absolutely treated unfairly, and not just at the hands of her skeevy-ass boss.
@NewBootsGoofin: She liked to watch, or perhaps share (q.v. her fondness for "foursomes," as quoted above--the post is not explicit, but I am assuming a traditional double-pair here, of course).
@andBegorrah: Indeed. Can't find it now (Gawker technology and IE7 don't work well together, so can't page back through my comments), but there was in fact a recent post on Gawker describing a case of male-on-male sexual harassment at work. Interestingly, many of the comments were basically, "So what?" I commented that unwanted attention was wrong in any circumstances.
Above the Law is guaranteed to make you feel bad about yourself and the world.
And while I agree that it should not matter at all what sex the perpetrator is, I have to admit that I think I would feel less threatened by a woman saying the above things than a man. Though both obviously create an uncomfortable work environment.
@Scoithniamh: its obviously still harassment, but i too have to admit that if a woman said that to me i'd probably take her out for drinks, but if a man did it i would kick him in the balls and get him fired. i don't really know what that says about me or the law.
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I think a lot of it is that we just don't see women as a "threat", sexually, to anyone...let alone other women. It's still sexism at work. And that weird form of lesbian chic where lots of people assume every woman is potentially bi-ish (although really, we all know they crave dick). It's so it can remain a male fantasy of lesbianism, as evidenced by that ridiculous quote above.
It makes sense to me that female sexual harassment would be taken less seriously for longer, since female harassment in general is. And then there's the larger issue of bullying, even in the grown up world that, if some of the comments here have been any indication...plenty of people just dismiss it as something you should "get over" or "deal with" and that it's your fault if you don't. Grown up harassment behaviors are, to me at least, just the adult version of bullying. Which, since we don't take it very seriously in kids, I'm not at all surprised we don't in adults until we have to.
Our victim blamey culture really pisses me off.
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I'm bisexual and in a committed relationship with a man, but many of my friends don't see why I shouldn't have 'girls on the side'. Once at a party I ended up making out with a married woman (I was single at the time) and was torn up by guilt and my friends told me it was okay because she was married to a guy. I've had people tell me that a woman can't lose her virginity to another woman, or that sex or cheating 'doesn't count' with a woman. Even if that supposedly works out to my advantage (some sort of fidelity loophole or way to avoid the 'slut' label) it really really bothers me because it seems to lead to situations like this post describes. Also if I end up marrying a woman, I'd like that relationship recognized and treated just as validly as a heterosexual one. I don't like my real emotions and desires being viewed as some sort of show for male observers.
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With men, I'm afraid that I could always be overpowered.
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In my experience, in medicine, most men don't seem to think of themselves as smarter or better than women, but a subset do tend to prefer relationships that subscribe to traditional gender roles. Obviously, small sample sizes and generalizations, but the image of douchey, self important man-lawyer seems pretty prevalent and I was wondering if it's grounded in experience.
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I believe that the law profession in general, as well as those of either sex who practice it, is historically considered douchey:
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." - Henry VI, Part 2, William Shakespeare
(I understand that line really rocked the Globe.)
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Does anyone else see the irony in this phrase? Shouldn't it be like "pussy eating lips?"
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And while I agree that it should not matter at all what sex the perpetrator is, I have to admit that I think I would feel less threatened by a woman saying the above things than a man. Though both obviously create an uncomfortable work environment.
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