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New York, 5:21 PM
Wed Nov 11
72 posts in the last 24 hours
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It doesn't work the other way around. Being pro-choice does NOT mean I am "anti-life!"
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And also, how do men know what babies want? They assume that everyone would prefer to be born. Such as.
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I think most people I know probably have this opinion and they still believe a person's decision to terminate or not terminate her pregnancy is no one's business but her's and possibly her partner. That's the entire point of having a choice. And if she changes her mind and decides she wants one. Fine.
I actually think assuming that people who hold this opinion are silently judging others makes no sense and can actually result in alienating voters and people who actually support reproductive rights but do not hold the same exact opinions.
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So much of choosing to have a baby or not depends on your position in life, your attitude towards motherhood, etc. I do NOT by any means want a kid right now, but if I got pregnant, I can't say I would automatically choose to terminate it, even though I would hold my friend's hand all the way to the clinic, no questions asked. Though I don't 100% identify with "I could never get one," I do understand it. And I'm not religious at all.
For the same reason pro-choice does not mean pro-baby-killing, I feel like we have to accept NOT ever having an aborion as an equally legitimate choice.
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Would you say that about any other medical procedure?
There are all sorts of medical procedures that people support but wouldn't get themselves. Plastic surgery for instance. I would never bother with it but if someone feels like they want to pursue it, more power to them.
@alamode has senioritis: I don't think anyone is implying anything by saying they wouldn't personally choose to have an abortion, despite believing in a right to choose. If anything, I find it to be a fairly humbling belief, which basically comes down to believing what's right for one person may or may not be for another. Your point is basically the other side of the coin of the misleading poll that sparked this post. Believing in the right to choose is simply that.
05/15/09
However, I would not get one personally unless my life were in danger. What is wrong with that? I think abortion is something every woman would rather not go through if they could avoid it. It's emotionally and physically draining, and I don't think we do young women a service by saying it's not a big deal.
I wish feminists would change their focus more to preventing unwanted pregnanies rather than terminating them. I think a lot of women would be better off for it.
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There are all sorts of medical procedures that people support but wouldn't get themselves. Plastic surgery for instance. I would never bother with it but if someone feels like they want to pursue it, more power to them.
Why wouldn't you bother with it?
People who say they would never get plastic surgery are also speaking down to those who have or to those who would. You wouldn't have surgery because you're fine the way you are, because no one has treated you poorly because of how you look, because you've never been disfigured in an accident. Whatever the reason- it isn't that way for everyone, and you don't know when you'll be in there shoes. It's the same thing- adding a moral facet to something where it isn't needed.
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Math jokes bring the world together!
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@JessJess: Your last point, is the point, exactly. You are pro-choice, and that is all you need to say.
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Really, though, I am surprised that with the changing national politics it is not the other way around. Then again, we must remember that our president, while he is many great things, is not wholeheartedly and enthusiastically pro-choice. He is begrudgingly pro-choice, at least that's the air he gives off.
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In 1997 he opposed a partial-birth abortion ban.
In 2001 he spoke against a proposed bill to consider aborted fetuses human beings with a right to resuscitation.
He worked with Planned Parenthood in Illinois on voting "present" on anti-choice legislation.
He has consistently defended Roe v. Wade.
He has a 100% rating from NARAL on his pro-choice voting record from 2005-2007.
The one questionable thing he's done is say that states should have the right to limit late-term partial-birth abortions in cases where the health of the mother is not affected. However, he has not endorsed any legislation in this area and actively voted against a partial-birth abortion ban in Illinois.
He has also stated that he trusts women to make the choice in cases of partial-birth abortions.
[www.ontheissues.org]
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I think most people I know probably have this opinion and they still believe a person's decision to terminate or not terminate her pregnancy is no one's business but her's and possibly her partner. That's the entire point of having a choice. And if she changes her mind and decides she wants one. Fine.
I actually think assuming that people who hold this opinion are silently judging others makes no sense and can actually result in alienating voters and people who actually support reproductive rights but do not hold the same exact opinions.
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Yeah, I mean I love Obama, I was thrilled when he repealed the Global Gag Rule, but I am a person who makes a habit out of looking at language and carefully listening to what people say. When I hear Obama talk about alleviating the anger on both sides of the issue a part of me is just like "fuck you, I have the right to be angry that other people want to say what happens in my uterus". It's his prerogative to try to do good while making people happy, but I feel a little condescended to when he implies that this is not an issue that's important enough to be furious about.
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I hate the fact that the abortion debate is dominated by two camps that are committed to saying "fuck you" to the other side.
I spent years working at an abortion clinic. I have had scary protesters follow me home. I have seen women who were so desperate and scared that I have no doubt that they would have used a coat hanger if no legal option was available. I get it. I really, really do.
But we need to focus on shifting the debate, because each side is unpersuadable. The anti-choice people who think I am a murderer are not going to be convinced by angry rhetoric, any more than you would be convinced by a picture of an aborted 20 week fetus.
While the two sides scream at each other, a number of people who are somewhere in the middle are cut out of the debate. And nothing changes. The screaming doesn't increase access to birth control, it doesn't end abstinence education funding, it doesn't end the stem cell research ban. That stuff gets done by the President who isn't saying the rhetoric that you want to hear.
I'm sorry, but I'll take results over rhetoric every time. And there is real value in learning how to view an issue through a different lens. At least if the goal is progress, rather than a moral victory.
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But, of course, the biggest issue here stems from the way that the debate is framed by the right in these terms. Maybe we should stop letting the right frame the debate.
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"Then again, we must remember that our president, while he is many great things, is not wholeheartedly and enthusiastically pro-choice. He is begrudgingly pro-choice, at least that's the air he gives off."
When we start parsing the rhetoric of a politician who supports choice to argue that they aren't pro-choice enough, it bothers me. Especially when they have a very strong record on choice issues. Politicians use the language that is most accessible since they are trying to appeal to a broad audience, reading too much into that can be pointless.
I would love to see the debate reframed. I don't know that it can be at this stage in the game. All I do know is that I am extremely happy that Souter waited to retire until 2009 :).
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That survey question sucked. It's a set up to confuse the issue.
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Majority identifying as pro-life AND supporting abortion rights is right on by me.
Anyway, looking forward to Megan's breakdown.
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