Of course race, gender are social constructs. Every non-biologically-based concept about human nature that we define to have [blank] social meaning is a social construct. But something being a social construct doesn't mean it's irrelevant. I'm so over people throwing around the phrase "social construct" like it's equivalent to "fictional" just because they're 'over' a certain social reality.
When people look at me, they see a black woman. Whether I identify as either black or a woman (or whether that's even what I "am" by the standards of the society I happen to be in at the time) are meaningless if I am being judged and treated according to the 'lookers' judgment of my race and gender. If the 'looker' possesses more social capital than I, I effectively am left with the consequences of that judgment. That's at the very heart of discrimination (i.e.- that thing no one's ever been able to combat with the phrase "social construct").
I'm not saying "We are what people think we are," it's imperative to have a solid self-identity. But it's foolish to think that basically telling people that their socially-based concepts about sex, gender are fiction, therefore you don't 'recognize' their biases.
@TheMac: Are you really arguing that the "one drop" rule Mariah refers to in this clip ISN'T complete fiction? If it's "real" then why doesn't one drop of White make you White? Why doesn't one drop of "Asian" make you Asian, eh?
The classification of race has very little to do with dismissing people's identifed ethnicity --or with saying their racial identity is irrelevant-- but everything to do with some arbitrary rule someone somewhere in time made up to create division amongst human beings. That's not dismissive: it's a fact.
@ceejeemcbeegee is not here: The "one drop rule" was a racial classification that was made to assist European cultures in creating a slave system that indefinitely classified "non-whites" as sub-human, and is currently used most often (IMO) by self-identified African-Americans to classify others of African descent as "black." It's not fiction, it was and is a social construct that changed as the people who used the idea changed it for their own purposes. As for Mariah, I would be surprised if she didn't adopt this thinking in an effort to build a stronger relationship with black audiences [isn't she "America's most misunderstood black woman," according the Essence?]
I agree with your classification of "race," I disagree with what I think your classification of "social construct" is. When race, "the arbitrary rule someone somewhere in time made up to create division amongst human beings," was such an effective concept that it affects everyone hundreds of years after its inception, it should be treated as seriously as other really-bad ideas in history.
@thesciencegirl wields the truth like a mighty axe.: really? it's a line in Precious, and was part of the cultural landscape of my upbringing. Only the question I was asked by black, white, latino and asians was: "What color is your mother?"
@meanteeth: I most often heard "What are you?" Also, "where are you from?" followed up by, "No, where are your parents from?" (when I say "Maryland" to be glib). Or if they are actually clear for once, "What is your ethnic heritage?"
"Who are your people?"
"What country are you from?"
"What are you mixed with?"
"Are you [fill in the blank ethnicity]?"
I, personally, have never heard "What color are you?" Maybe it's a regional thing?
@thesciencegirl wields the truth like a mighty axe.: Oh god, I get the parents question a lot. I tend to give the same answer. Also, the word exotic sees to pop up. People think its polite to exoticize in line at the bank. I don't think anybody has ever point blank asked me "are you __" but sometimes they start speaking to me in a language I don't understand.
The thing is, I am very very Jewish, as are is everyone I am descended from. But other Jews still ask this question (usually even more rudely than anyone else, the racism in my community scares me). And then they seem shocked to realize that not every Jew has pure white Eastern European heritage.
@thesciencegirl wields the truth like a mighty axe.: uh, i grew up in DC. so if you are from MD because your parents are, too, I don't think it's regional. FWIW, I got "what color is your mother" from black people, for the most part.
@meanteeth: I find that black people are the least likely to question my race. When black folks do ask about my race, they often ask what I'm mixed with, or if I'm "part Spanish" or something. They generally guess correctly that I have one black parent.
@thesciencegirl wields the truth like a mighty axe.: oh, yes to that as well; I can usually tell as well. I just think it's a thing where people want you to say the whole lineage and test how you identify. In my case, they knew my mother was "black and something" and they wanted me to be clear.
@SarahMC: I'm doing this!: That he was. I was watching the Billie Jean video the other day and I could not get over how absolutely adorable and gorgeous he was. He had a very unique look, and that smile! How that guy could have EVER thought he was unattractive is beyond me.
Doesn't LaToya have lightened skin as well? Has she ever weighed in on the subject? I always took that to mean that she probably had the same condition as Michael.
That said, I don't care what color he wanted his skin to be or whether it was the result of disease, peels, bleach, whatever. HE still identified as a black artist. I read numerous interviews where he said as much, and despite what color his skin turned out to be, he was African American by birth. So I don't see how its an issue.
What I still find confusing is that a man of his stature and affluence, would have chosen plastic surgeons who botched his nose like he/they did. Even if that was the nose he insisted he wanted...how would it help the plastic surgeon's career to be known as the man who did that?
I've seen people around town with patchy, almost giraffe-looking skin (completely not my intention to sound disrespectful for something I'm sure is so embarrassing for them), and I would imagine a skin-bleaching would be rife with problems and trials.
@PippaTea: That might be why it's hard to find a plastic surgeon who will admit to working on him. That said, there seem to be a lot of plastic surgeons who specialize in giving people what they want so long as they can pay for it. Measly little issues like "medical ethics" are not part of their world.
@JesiDangerously: That's because being white isn't marginalizing. It's stigmatizing to being a minority race, and success is hard won, which is why solidarity and positive representations are important to many of us. Anyway, there's no question that white people who tan still look Caucasian. Those people typically don't dye their hair black and get a tight perm with their tan.
@missbananafish: Since you can't watch video, someone else posted this link below (sfw, shows pretty straightforward evidence of his condition): [inrepair.net]
Others have said that he admitted bleaching his skin because of the vitiligo. More than that, I don't know.
Honestly (I admit that I could be ignorant) I never thought of MJ's dramatic transformation as an issue of skin color. He was a beautiful child and a really handsome young man and I think he clearly had Body Dysmorphic Disorder because, to put it bluntly, he really destroyed himself physically.
I don't think he was trying to un-black himself, I don't think it was about that. I think he wanted to become as physically distant from who he "really was" as he possibly could. I somehow doubt that it really was about becoming white.
@Birthday Girl: Read his autobiography that "The Jacksons" movie was based on and he was extremely insecure about his nose and his acne. So much so that he would wash his face in the dark. It didn't help that Joe Jackson teased him everyday about how big his nose was.
12/18/09
The end.
12/18/09
Of course race, gender are social constructs. Every non-biologically-based concept about human nature that we define to have [blank] social meaning is a social construct. But something being a social construct doesn't mean it's irrelevant. I'm so over people throwing around the phrase "social construct" like it's equivalent to "fictional" just because they're 'over' a certain social reality.
When people look at me, they see a black woman. Whether I identify as either black or a woman (or whether that's even what I "am" by the standards of the society I happen to be in at the time) are meaningless if I am being judged and treated according to the 'lookers' judgment of my race and gender. If the 'looker' possesses more social capital than I, I effectively am left with the consequences of that judgment. That's at the very heart of discrimination (i.e.- that thing no one's ever been able to combat with the phrase "social construct").
I'm not saying "We are what people think we are," it's imperative to have a solid self-identity. But it's foolish to think that basically telling people that their socially-based concepts about sex, gender are fiction, therefore you don't 'recognize' their biases.
12/19/09
The classification of race has very little to do with dismissing people's identifed ethnicity --or with saying their racial identity is irrelevant-- but everything to do with some arbitrary rule someone somewhere in time made up to create division amongst human beings. That's not dismissive: it's a fact.
12/19/09
I agree with your classification of "race," I disagree with what I think your classification of "social construct" is. When race, "the arbitrary rule someone somewhere in time made up to create division amongst human beings," was such an effective concept that it affects everyone hundreds of years after its inception, it should be treated as seriously as other really-bad ideas in history.
12/17/09
12/17/09
12/17/09
"Who are your people?"
"What country are you from?"
"What are you mixed with?"
"Are you [fill in the blank ethnicity]?"
I, personally, have never heard "What color are you?" Maybe it's a regional thing?
12/17/09
The thing is, I am very very Jewish, as are is everyone I am descended from. But other Jews still ask this question (usually even more rudely than anyone else, the racism in my community scares me). And then they seem shocked to realize that not every Jew has pure white Eastern European heritage.
12/17/09
12/17/09
12/17/09
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12/17/09
12/17/09
12/17/09
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12/17/09
I thought he was South American. This is the first time I have ever heard her refer to her dad as black or African-American.
12/17/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
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07/01/09
That said, I don't care what color he wanted his skin to be or whether it was the result of disease, peels, bleach, whatever. HE still identified as a black artist. I read numerous interviews where he said as much, and despite what color his skin turned out to be, he was African American by birth. So I don't see how its an issue.
07/01/09
I'M NOT GONNA SPEND MY LIFE BEIN' A COLOR!!
07/01/09
I've seen people around town with patchy, almost giraffe-looking skin (completely not my intention to sound disrespectful for something I'm sure is so embarrassing for them), and I would imagine a skin-bleaching would be rife with problems and trials.
07/01/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
Straight up proves he wasn't bleaching and just trying to even out his skin tone.
07/01/09
Others have said that he admitted bleaching his skin because of the vitiligo. More than that, I don't know.
07/01/09
07/01/09
07/01/09
I don't think he was trying to un-black himself, I don't think it was about that. I think he wanted to become as physically distant from who he "really was" as he possibly could. I somehow doubt that it really was about becoming white.
07/01/09
07/01/09