Jezebel Groupthink Forum

@CapitaineJolie: I think there are plenty of people who milk the system and others genuinely need it.

I know my husband and I both work fulltime and can hardly make ends meet yet we don't qualify. Then I see other people who do not work and pawn their TV for crack cocaine. Yet get food stamps.

(I'm not being sarcastic either)

I think that someone who is working and going to school full time deserves a little help.

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@CapitaineJolie: So I guess when I tell myself that my rich friends aren't judging me for using food stamps..they probably are.

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promoted by MagImpalor is a god damn spy.

@CapitaineJolie: What a massively shitty thing to say to someone you allegedly care about.

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@duetoprivacy: How do you know they don't work?

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@MsAvignon: Yeah, she acknowledged that.

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@DinosaurDanceParty: Only if you have any luxuries whatsoever. Like TVs to sell for crack.

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@CapitaineJolie: If you expected people to tell you that you aren't snotty and privileged, then prepare to be surprised. Did it occur to you that there are people commenting here who are on food stamps who may be insulted by your little rant? It's good that you realized that your thinking was unfair, but this post is still incredibly privileged and self-indulgent. I find that the best thing to do when one is awakening to the reality of one's privilege is to do so silently. It lowers the likelihood of saying asinine things out loud. Also, it's "decent. "

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femme-bot approved this comment

promoted by MsAvignon

@CapitaineJolie: So you say you recognize your privilege, and yet still say things like that? Your guilt is justified. You're a smart commenter- and I imagine, a smart person- so it might have just been an off day. Be gentle with yourself, but be firm: don't accept this crap from yourself.

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@femme-bot: Case in point is my neighbor and I know she does not go to work. She asked me for a ride to go to the pawn shop because her dealer was on the way over.

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@Norton: Haha I actually don't have a TV. And fortunately not an addiction problem.

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@duetoprivacy: They told you they don't work?

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@duetoprivacy: So you saw people pawning their TV, followed them to their crack dealer where you watched them buy crack, and then followed them home to go through their mail and find food stamps?

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promoted by femme-bot

@femme-bot: Because it was a movie staring Jared Leto.

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@Norton: Right, and yet acknowledging it really hasn't done much to change her attitude: "I know I'm privileged and food stamps are for mythical 'lazy poor people' who don't try hard enough."

It's hard to take that with good faith.

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@Norton: Luxuries are fine. Its when you have them yet sell them for drugs and your children go without christmas presents, it's time to reevaluate your priorities.

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@plmyshkin: I know she is on goverment assistance as she is very vocal about it.

And yes pretty much. She asked me for a ride to the store to pawn her TV because her dealer was on his way.
She is a known drug user in the neighborhood. Sad really.

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@duetoprivacy: Did it occur to you that she may not be paying for drugs with money?

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promoted by femme-bot

@plmyshkin: So she wanted to pawn the TV for her food dealer? That is a new one.

I think you are missing the point though. Many people receive government assistance with little guidance on getting out of the cycle.

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@CapitaineJolie: "I like to think I'm progressive and open-minded, that in becoming aware of my privilege I would stop flaunting it, even though it's not that simple." (emphasis mine)

Um, fail? This whole rant of yours read, to me (a child who grew up on food stamps and WIC) as an entitled princess party. I am offended, because yeah, my parents were "lazy poor people", and I don't seem to be the only one.

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promoted by thesciencegirl2.0

@MsAvignon: I meant that she acknowledged that it was a shitty thing to say to her partner. Which was a few hours ago. I have no idea whether or not it's changed her attitude, because it was so recently. When she was saying "mythical lazy poor people" she was acknowledging her instinct, not that it was true.

I guess I don't see why CJ is getting more flack than DTP.

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@femme-bot: Yes, she is unemployed.

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@duetoprivacy: So, your whole point is that you know one person who is unemployed, on government assistance, and sells their stuff for crack?

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promoted by Donovanesque

@duetoprivacy: You said that, I was just curious how you knew, that's all. Is the other person/people living with her unemployed as well?

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@Norton: Don't really see why I should be getting flack. There is a huge issue with people who receive government assistance not having the tools or support system to better themselves. Instead subsidizing drug and alcohol addictions with government money while those who do need "the hand up" go without.

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@duetoprivacy: I understand that it must seem unfair when you are working so hard and only just making ends meet.

However, anecdotes like the one you have given in this thread are the very things that have permitted politicians to gut already-meager welfare programs in this country based on fear and hatred of the "undeserving." They are why Reagan was able to cry "welfare queen" as a reason to not guarantee food security to families and children.

Regardless of how much we agree with the choices (or addictions, for that matter) of our neighbors and other citizens, we should be able to agree that everyone deserves to be able to eat.

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@femme-bot: They are both unemployed and I know this because she has bragged about how she only pays $70 a month in rent and receives food stamps while the rest of her neighbors have to go to work. I am glad she gets help because she has two children and I don't know if she receives child support.

My point in all this, and maybe it was poorly worded, is that I think food stamps and the like should also require those who receive it and have the ability to work, to attempt to work, continue education, learn a trade, ect. While I do not know if she is able to work physically.

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@duetoprivacy: tesa said it better, but everyone deserves food, and food stamps can only be spent on food. Sometimes people will sell them for far less money than they're worth, but those people are addicts, and I don't view addiction as a choice. Rather than cutting them off, I'd rather have more services easily available to them.

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@Norton: I agree with that. I think that a good compromise would be to place requirements on food stamps recipients. Such as with those who receive unemployment you have to prove you are look for work, unable to work, etc. I don't think that would be an unreasonable expectation.

I know if I qualified I would be willing to do that. I don't qualify though because husband and I own a vehicle worth more than $2000 and we have thought about selling it for food more than you know, but would be unable to obtain reliable transportation to work, and their are no bus lines near our area. It's a catch 22.

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@duetoprivacy: In my state to receive food stamps you do have to show you've made an attempt to work.

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@tesa: I agree with that, like I said, I guess my comment was poorly worded in the heat of the moment. A better option would be to offer programs to rehabilitate, detox, and train people for the workforce, parenting etc.

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@Norton: I agree with that. I think that a good compromise would be to place requirements on food stamps recipients. Such as with those who receive unemployment you have to prove you are look for work, unable to work, etc. I don't think that would be an unreasonable expectation.

I know if I qualified I would be willing to do that. I don't qualify though because husband and I own a vehicle worth more than $2000 and we have thought about selling it for food more than you know, but would be unable to obtain reliable transportation to work, and their are no bus lines near our area. It's a catch 22.

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@duetoprivacy: You are aware that anecdotal evidence does not data make, yes?

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@femme-bot: I think that is a good thing. In my state you do now. You just have to show social security, paystubs if you work, and birth certificates.

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@duetoprivacy: Right, but you do know that some people - for whatever reason - can't/won't/don't work. The alternative you seem to be arguing for is to let people starve because of it.

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@CapitaineJolie: Though you may be rich and priveleged, it would serve you well in the future if the voice in your head says, "Saying this out loud or in a text message, etc, will make you sound like an asshole." Because right now, you're sounding like an asshole...and no, volunteering to help the less fortunate/lazy, poor people so that you can feel better about yourself, isn't helping your case.

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promoted by littleliongirl

@MsAvignon: I think the alternative that I said in a few replies up is "place requirements on food stamps recipients. Such as with those who receive unemployment you have to prove you are look for work, unable to work, etc. I don't think that would be an unreasonable expectation."

On the other hand, I can/do/will work and still go without food many nights in order to provide clothing and food for stepdueto. (father has custody, mother does not pay child support) Yet do not qualify for food stamps because we own a vehicle worth more than $2,000 but can't sell it because then we wouldn't have a reliable way to work to pay for rent and on and on.

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@duetoprivacy: I read that. And if people can't, they should not receive aid, correct?

My point is that some of these people will starve.

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@MsAvignon: If these people CAN work they need to find a job or at least pretend to find a job. If they can not work then that falls into a completely different aspect of welfare anyways.

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@duetoprivacy: Dude, that's my whole point. Even if people refuse to work, they still deserve to eat. Eating is a fundamental human right because it's needed to live. Food is now a commodity and it's gotten to the point where people are denied access to food.

The difference between you and me is that I think even if someone refused to work, I don't want someone in a position where they might starve to death.

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@MsAvignon: If you refuse to work, why should someone just throw hundreds of dollars at them. I don't know I guess I just think if you are able you should at least try and work. I guess I just can't fathom not seeing the need for providing what you can for yourself.

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@duetoprivacy: If you refuse to work, why should someone throw hundreds of dollars at them?

So they can feed, clothe, and shelter themselves.

Just because you can't fathom seeing the need doesn't mean other people, for whatever reason, need to prove themselves to you. Not when institutionalized inequality in both public and private sector makes it that much harder for people to enter the market.

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@MsAvignon: All I'm saying is if you are of age and can fill out an application for foodstamps, you can fill out a job application.

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@duetoprivacy: All I'm saying, even if they haven't, they still deserve food, shelter, and clothing.

Merry Christmas!

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@CapitaineJolie: It's good you recognized privileged, shitty behavior. I'm not sure why you'd share it here, but good for knowing it's a negative way of thinking. Volunteering is great, but please don't do it for yourself. Do it because you want to help others.

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@duetoprivacy: The majority of people/families on government assistance are not cheating the system. To judge an entire group of people on a few bad apples is completely unfair. You wouldn't judge an entire race based on negative stereotypes, would you?

The fact is that getting food stamps isn't a very easy process. In some states it may be, but most states require quite a bit from the applicant. Bank statements, a detailed breakdown of expenses, birth certificates, social security cards, and yes, even a requirement to pursue work.

An auditor reviews and verifies the information and approves the applicant if they qualify according to poverty levels. If they qualify, they deserve those food stamps, regardless what they do with their other money. Regardless whether you approve of what they do. In fact, what you think really doesn't matter.

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@MsAvignon: +1
Thanks for bringing logic and compassion to the discussion.

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@victoriasauce: I have applied and received food stamps. In my state at least it was quicker and easier than applying for a job, or even for volunteer positions. I think that everyone is attacking me over a flippant statement. No one is going to starve just because they don't get food stamps.

I think that people who do receive aid like that should be required to put forth some kind of effort. Be it looking for employment, attending rehab programs or money management courses.

It's not a matter of I don't approve, but a matter of handing people (be them well intentioned or not) and not giving them the skills or lessons needed to further their lives, is not doing any favors.

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@duetoprivacy: Seriously? No one is going to starve because they don't get food stamps? How would you know? If someone can't obtain food, yes, starvation is what takes place. I find nothing wrong with giving skills or lessons, but I reject this idea that people on food stamps are pawning their tvs for crack money. Sure, some may do that, but people not on food stamps do that as well. I think the majority of recipients are hard-working, well-intentioned people that are just having a hard time. But you know? Even if they aren't, they don't deserve starvation.

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@duetoprivacy: I'm following MsAvigon's example and leaving the argument there. I stand by my comments and it's unlikely you'll be swayed from yours. Merry Christmas (or whichever holiday you may celebrate)!

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@victoriasauce: I just think that if this particular person is doing someone should step in and get her rehabilitation or some kind of help. It's not good for her and defiantly not good for the children who live with her.

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@duetoprivacy: Oh, I forgot- poor people can't have luxuries or mental disorders and if they're addicts they don't deserve support.

Thanks for enlightening me in the ways entitled people's minds work.

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@duetoprivacy: They aren't missing the point, because that isn't what you addressed in your first comment on this thread.

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@Blodwynn is a Slytherin Bitch: I am poor and I have a car, that is a luxury, though I would not ask my neighbor to take me to sell or pawn said car for drugs. I feel that the greater issue here is people receiving food stamps and the like, yet not receiving help to over come addictions or work training so they are never able to better themselves. I never said that people who are poor or mentally handicapped should not receive aid should starve.

I believe that if people are addicts but mentally competent enough to participate, they should be given access to recovery and treatment in order to recieve receiving food stamps. Mental disorders are a different issues because many people with mental disorders are unable to maintain or even understand the concept of employment, but I do think there should be services available to them besides just, heres so money for food, clothing and shelter. That doesn't help them, what would help them is access and state monies for mental health care in SAFE group homes or assisted living facilities.

I don't really think that idea is really that harsh. To expect someone to work for something isn't like asking them to walk on water.

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@victoriasauce: I actually think it's fine to volunteer for oneself. I volunteer at a clothes closet where I go through donations, put them on hangers, and put them in the proper places. It kind of doesn't matter that I'm doing it to make myself feel better. The work needs doing & it gets done.

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