Huh. You mean men might not be in touch with their feelings? Shocking.

So many men I know just shove down their emotions, and they only come out when the guy is really drunk or really pissed off

Excellent point.

I know this is irrelevant, but I have to say that Eternal Sunshine is my favorite movie EVER.

"Young Asian-American women have the second highest rate of suicide among those ages 15 to 24."

Question - who has the first highest rate? Is it not white males?

I think you're right on the nose about the lack of reporting, by the way.

Depression: You can't just walk it off.

Some of us know all too well what depression is, having suffered it on and off over many years. Right now my wife thinks I am depressed, but it's just a constant lack of sleep, that's thrown of my serotonin levels and causes a lot of my problems. I actually feel fine on weekends when I can get more rest, though the effect is only temporary.

Dodai, you really know how to strike a chord...

Well, of course. How many guys probably think that depression is just some weak emotion that they have to bottle up and never express to anyone ever?
Also, I would bet that a much higher percentage of depressed men let out their feelings in really unhealthy ways - binge drinking, drug abuse, risky sexual behavior. More likely than not, if you looked at a cross-section of dudes that exhibit those behaviors, you would find a very large chunk that have serious undiagnosed depression.

Really? Um, because I have dated ALL of the depressed men.

(Insert obvious joke here)

Those stats are generally based diagnostic interviews or validated measures that assess symptom level designed to get at the symptoms of depression whether or not the person identifies as depressed. And if they are sampling properly they are getting the dudes. There is a difference between stats looking at base rates of a disorder in the population, and then those stats that evaluate who seeks therapy.

i reckon it's less reported than in women. i'm interested to see how it's genetically inherited, or a result of environment.

I knew a lot of girls in college who were "depressed" in quotation marks. While depression is obviously a real chemical thing, so are fakers and parents/doctors eager to pump their kids full of drugs.

I think you're completely right Dodai. I know just as many dudes as babes who seem to be suffering from depression and they don't get any help or treatment unless someone either pushes them into it, or they become embroiled in some of the weirder med-obsessed communities online.

Cause they're only allowed to get angry? I dunno. Poor bastards. I can't wait to hear some of the POVs of the Jezebeaux.

i think most guys call depression "being pissed off" and treat it with appropriate amounts of beer, televised sports and pain-inducing physical activities(in my case, falling off a mountain bike)

but for serious, i think going to a shrink is still frowned upon in the testosterone community.

@minesbigger: I think so. But I'm pretty sure the difference is that women (in general) attempt suicide more often, while men are generally more successful at doing it.

My husband thinks I am being completely bamboozled by my Doctor because I am taking anti-depressants.
He is not an ass about it to me or anything, but he absolutely doesn't get it.
I try to remind him that every February- when he has no work, and it is dark and cold all the time, and he stays in his flannel pants, drinks all day, and refuses to shave or shower- that is depression,(seasonal affective disorder) but to him, that is his "bad month".

And because they don't believe it exists and because they think it's a female PMS thing and because

@pandorasmittens: Mine, too. I cry every single time I see it.

I think you're right on the money about guys simply not being attuned to their emotions and willing to see a doctor. Admitting you have depression is unfortunately seen as a 'wussy' thing to admit to for many guys ... they've been taught to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and move on with life. Very sad.

With regards to the stats on Asian American women having the second highest suicide rates...I wonder why that is? I find that incredibly fascinating since they come from very tight families. Does this include all Asian-Americans including those who hail from India?

@petuniacat: In a strange way, that might inoculate men from depression. Depression is really a gross hormonal shift, whereby the production of neurotransmitters that have a dampening effect is raised. A person who is sensitive to shifts in emotion would notice changes to their affect more than someone who was not, so in a strange way men being detached from their emotions may be saving them from the long term effects of depression. Of course it makes them bastards, but hey...

For years and years a male relative of mine has refused to get help for his obvious mental problems, including depression. He'd rather just stew and convince himself he doesn't need to go to the doctor, because he ain't going regardless. It's really sad and frustrating. He'll do better for a while, then slide down again.

Also, I think I read somewhere that while women attempt suicide more often, men are more often to attempt it and actually kill themselves. Maybe they think, on some level, that their only options are to suck it up and get better or die? Fuck, that's a depressing thought.

I'm too depressed to think about whether other people can be depressed. Sorry, men. Today is not your day.

I have no idea where the Alliance gets its data - it could (and should) be more sophisticated than only counting people who actually seek out mental health services.

Random polling for symptoms? People getting medical care for a variety of illnesses then getting a secondary referral? I'm not sure but I wouldn't assume that underreporting is necessarily a factor in their data.

For years and years a male relative of mine has refused to get help for his obvious mental problems, including depression. He'd rather just stew and convince himself he doesn't need to go to the doctor, because he ain't going regardless. It's really sad and frustrating. He'll do better for a while, then slide down again.

Also, I think I read somewhere that while women attempt suicide more often, men are more often to attempt it and actually kill themselves. Maybe they think, on some level, that their only options are to suck it up and get better or die? Fuck, that's a depressing thought. Where's my Zoloft?

it is called DENIAL. My now ex SO, with whom I live- is constantly struggling with depression. But he calls it: Gee, I dont know why I am so tired all I want to do is sleep. I don't have any sex drive because I am tired, I know that I love you, its just that I dont have any feelings right now- I am numb.
And can't understand that maybe he needs to see a doctor or get some meds.

i'll admit that i have an aversion to doctors because i feel i don't need a doctor to tell me what i already know i have but I've suffered the consequences (i.e. worsening conditions, certain treatments not working)

Great post Dodai. The only thing I'd add to it that there is still a particular social stigma about men admitting depression atop the general (and seemingly declining) one about depression.

My comment may have been eaten, but:

I seem to date depressed men, or men who have been depressed at some point, exclusively.

(Insert dating katastic/ depression correlation joke here).

I've been noticing this thing recently where male friends of mine lose/quit their jobs, go on unemployment, break up with their girlfriends and drop out of life in some sort of early-30s personality crisis. I'm starting to think it isn't a crisis, its depression. But they won't use that word, and won't even acknowledge anything's wrong. Its like they're waiting it out or something.

Well, according to the teevee, they can all just go 'to Jamaaaaica and feeeeel alriiiiight.'
And by they, I mean me. And everyone I know - male or female.
Seriously. Do palm trees, weed and sunshine NOT solve everything?

@JessicaLovejoy: More business juice, please!: No, you need vitamins too. Doesn't everyone get their medical advice from Tom Cruise?

It's not a coincidence either that men have higher rates of alcoholism... self-medication anyone?

Yeah, men totally just don't admit they have a problem. I run to the doctor for every little thing- and thanks to that got my depression under control before it got out of hand. My husband refuses to go to the doctor for pretty much any reason.

@pandorasmittens: Ditto! No movie has ever made me cry more...in fact that still is making me tear up a little.

And can I add - Jim Carrey can be damn sexy when he's not so busy trying to be JIM!!! CARREY!!!

How about ... we live in a society where women are increasingly told they're not good enough, not successful enough, pretty enough, not skinny enough? And men aren't as often held to the same unrealistic standards?

Women, from earliest girlhood, are constantly bombarded with messages that make them question their self-worth. I'm not saying that "OMG ALL THOSE COVER GIRL ADS MADE ME ALL DEPRESSED", but I think there are certain elements of modern society that are still stacked against women, and might contribute to the fact that more women than men are seeing specialists to help them cope.

I think that this is a common problem with statistical information - the sample ends up being skewed. To move away from statistics and on to anecdotes, I've known a lot of depressed guys in my time, but they just won't admit it. Or see anyone. And it is beyond frustrating.

Damn double post. Sorry guys. Delete the duplicate, or what have you.

@Scoregasm: I know someone who needs to see a doctor, but instead he got a DWI. Another person started doing coke and then only got help for depression and other stuff when he thought he was dying from an overdose. He knows he's depressed, at least, but sometimes I feel so bad for him and wish I could be there and hug him. We have nearly identical descriptions of our depression, weirdly enough.

Of course, this man is gay, so I wonder if he's getting help partly because he's already bucked the typical "tough manly man" stereotype by virtue of his sexual orientation.

@Philthyist is annoyed: I dated a guy exactly like this, but he was also a complete narcissist so I'm not sure if it was that or the depression...either way, glad to be out of that situation. Sorry you're still living with him :(

@katastic:I swear I have a target on my forehead- perhaps you do too.

@petuniacat: We are in touch with our feelings. We're just trying to keep "other" people from being in touch with our feelings.

Usually, we'd just be told to 'be and man and suck it up'. Also, and I can account for this experience myself, if we do try to open up to someone (family/friends), they might try to minimize the problem by comparing it to the severe types of depression women go through (do to pregnancy, hormonal balance), which leads to my first point.

It's much easier not fighting it. Then it becomes normal. To yourself, anyways.

If PMS has you feeling all stabby (& you aren't Amy or LiLo,) are you depressed if you repress your overwhelming want to stab?

@ Philthyist is Annoyed, et al, yeah, why not break the silence on this -- it took until my now-ex gf just sat me down and told me I needed help. Thanks women! Sometimes you can come through. The meds though, in my experience and my experience alone, do not work and make everything worse.

Well for what it's worth, I'm female and when I finally went to a doctor to get some pharmaceutical rope to pull myself out of the dark pit of despair, I cried with shame afterwards. I know it's stupid (I mean, would you be ashamed of getting a bone set? Of course not!), but I can completely relate to why even more men than women wouldn't get treatment.

Maybe that's why most guys I know have problems with alcohol...? Whenever the issue is addressed, almost every guy I know with (seemingly obvious) signs of depression says the last thing he wants to do is talk to someone or address it. So yeah, I think those who don't address the signs should count, but you can't convince someone else that they are depressed.

@AthertonMerriweather: Add narcissism to the list. Good call. we get along fine as roommates- we have 5 months left on the lease. But seeing Kat's comment above made me realize that my major relationships have been with men such as he- who suffer from depression.
FECK. I DO NOT WANT TO DATE MY MOTHER!
DO YOU HEAR ME DATING GENIE?

@magic1: I love that movie so much. Kate and Jim are just perfect. And he does brood nicely-he should do it more often.

Gee, I don't know. I think women have more reason to be depressed, generally, than men. I mean, look at the subgroups who suffer the highest rates... hispanic and African American woman. Maybe this is just correllation, but it seems to me that these groups are more oppressed and repressed, generally, than, say, young white males. And these middle-aged women have lived a long life of taking everyone's bullshit, but not having it be socially acceptable for them to be "angry." I think depression is often the result of pressure, compounded by time.

@Too Hot For TNR: He will not listen. I am tired of talking. I dont know that meds will help- but seeing a professional will never hurt.

@SisterStevie: Saturn Return, baby... Saturn return.

It's strange how a healthy person @NefariousNewt: That's how it started with me, but then the weekends started to become shitty, too. It sucks, because I've never been like this before, and now it's like someone just turned off the feel-good valve in my brain. The Lexapro works wonders, though.

By no means is this true ALL the time, but I think a lot of the time women are socialized to internalize / blame themselves where men are socialized to externalize / blame others. Thus women's classical response resembles depression where men's classical response resembles, I guess, being an addict or being a dick. HAhaha no, I'm kidding... about the dick part.
Very different response than to physical ailments, in my exp., because most men I know are whining hypochondriac babies and women are much more likely to 'walk it off'.

@pandorasmittens: Yes! I heart Michel Gondry.
@lisas: Yes Ive been there as well. It is really hard to admit you need help sometimes, so I can see why teh menz find it even harder.

@tscheese: I think it's a combination. Men are given different standards, and in general, they're less self-reflective because of it. Girls, I think, are taught more to look inward/blame themselves for the source of problems, while men often look to outside sources as the cause of the problem.