I actually drove by that place while on a road trip over Christmas and it was absolutely terrifying. I mean, truly in the middle of nowhere, not even a two horse town for an hour in any direction. What is it with Texas and crazy sects anyway?

My adoration for Big Love aside, this shit creeps me out to no end.

This is so incredibly sad. I'm all about separation of church and state, but not when it comes to cases like this. Good on the girl for making the call, and I hope they can find her to get her the help and protection she needs.

Really getting my coffee for real now... It's definitely Monday.

Wow.

It sorta makes Scientology look sane.

There is nothing that pisses me off more than people using religion to justify horrific crimes against humanity. This fucking pervert basically built a child fucker's paradise in Jesus' name. Disgusting.

@hamburgerhotdog: I think it's the availability of land, in that the state is so huge that you can build a crazy compound like that, and not have anyone in sight for miles. It's easy to hide, I guess.
Scary.

@hamburgerhotdog: There's a crapload of vast, open space in the middle of nowhere so that people can have this kind of stuff going on and not many people know about it.

Anyone else here read Under the Banner of Heaven? At the time of its writing, this ranch was in the process of being built. Jon Krakauer also mentioned that it could possibly turn into another Waco situation. That book also mentioned how frequent sexual abuse, incest, rape (both statutory and not) were in polygamous sects like this one, and how demeaning they were to women, which is why I can't condone this stuff.

Shit is crazy, yo.

This is still happening? Like, WTF?

Listening to a religious scholar on NPR some time ago who was asked what characterized fundamentalist sects and he said foremost was control of its' women. So true no matter if it is Christian, Jewish or Muslim or some other type I can't think of right now. Stay strong sisters! Keep making those calls!

I get nervous every time I see one of these compound strikes thinking of Waco and Ruby Ridge.

@frecklefacefreak: They've know about it for awhile, they just couldn't do anything about it until they got this specific call.

@frecklefacefreak: That's exactly the reason that Jon Krakauer gave in his book about why YFZ was being built in Eldorado.

Did I mention that according to the same book, polygamist Fundamentalist sects knowingly bleed welfare funds dry? The second, third, etc. wives of a husband are encouraged to apply for welfare as single mothers, even though they're essentially not. Of course, the money in those places usually ends up going to handful of powerful men anyway, so they probably need it. Usually a pretty high poverty rate among these groups, from what I've read.

if anyone's interested in the history of the FLDS church, do get your hands on a copy of John Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven. (He also wrote Into the Wild.) It's easily the best book I've ever read on the subject of religious splinter groups. The fact that the mainstream LDS church tacitly approves the polygamous ways of the FLDS is disgusting, and Krakauer covers it all very well. The book was taken off store shelves in some bookstores in my area (far Eastern Oregon) because the (very prominent) LDS community is so freaked by it.

Ugh, I saw the headline this morning and headed straight for the coffee...this is just so fucked up, I don't even know what to say.

@DorothyZbornak: I agree 100%, but "in Jesus' name"? "Yearning for Zion", "Latter Day Saints". . . Are they Christian?

I find their outfits so offensive. Your wrists and ankles are DIRTY, girls, and will lead teh menz down a path of iniquity! Cover that shit up! (Also french braid your long-ass hair and give yourself mall-bangs because....???)

Isn't it about time to revoke the tax -exempt status of ALL religious organizations? I'm getting tired of reading about these little cults (and the big ones like the Catholic Church) getting special tax dispensation from our government. It's time that shit ends.

@DorothyZbornak: I totally agree!

Using "religion" to do whatever the hell you want makes me want to smack people! I don't believe for a minute that these men didn't know it was wrong to force teenage girls to marry and keep reproducing. The whole thing makes me sick.

@DorothyZbornak: Exactly. I hope there is a special place in hell for those that commit crimes in God's name (no matter what name you call Him/Her/Them).

The entire story is appalling, but I'm amazed at the girl's bravery. Sixteen is so young, and to be completely surrounded by the lifestyle, and still find a way to come up with, and execute a plan, is truly outstanding.

But what happens to these women and children now? Is there any support system to help them adapt to a new life? Of are they just told that everything they know was illegal and immoral and are then just pushed into the outside world? I fear we go in and break up the cult but then won't provide the necessary support for the women and children to move on. How do you even move on when all you know is this abuse?

@dosido: I've heard about this book and really want to read it.

a former member of this religious sect was on good morning america today talking the treatment of women and children, and said that there was a form of disciplining children by holding their heads under running water. she said that men would essentially water-board INFANTS to "break them".

i believe in religious freedoms, and as much separation of church and state as possible, but when i hear this, i'm completely with Le Kangourou de

@crotchety: The LDS Church claims to be a Christian group. However, their theology is so radically different from almost all other Christian groups that most other denominations refuse to allow them to be classified under the banner of Christianity.

183 removed, 137 of them were children, probably abused. That just adds another layer of horrible to this story.

They should've sent the Lesbian Feminazi Bonerkillers in there. They'd take care of that crazy shiznit. For GOOD.

@vivresavie17: @dosido: yes and yes - that book is amazing. Didn't he start with the intent of just writing about the specific crime, but realized he couldn't even begin to get inside the killers' minds without investigating the religion they were bred into? It's fascinating how it's written, too. I genuinely enjoyed reading it, even though the subject matter is terribly frightening.

@crotchety: Nope, Mormons aren't Christians. They deny key tenets of the Christian faith, notably the doctrine of the trinity. The church propaganda would have you believe otherwise, but any amount of digging, no matter how shallow, shows that it's a religion unto itself.

Here's a very good PBS Frontline documentary on the Mormons.

@hamburgerhotdog: Several were pregnant, no?

@XavierLucage: YES YES YES! So many of these religious orgs. are certainly for profit. I see no reason whatsoever for them to be tax-exempt.

And brainwashing little kids while at the same time locking them away from the rest of society is a form of abuse.

@DorothyZbornak: FDLS and, really, LDS too are sort of doing their own thing re: Christ. You know how a church will have a cross out front? LDS temples won't; it's one of the ways you can tell an LDS temple from, say, a Lutheran church. (My family lives in Utah and my mother wears a rather large cross around her neck as sort of a, uh, indicator that she's not LDS. Or a vampire, I guess.)

@Benevolent_Dictatrix: Some of Mr. Afin's family are part of the Fundamentalist LDS church. As far as I know none of the men are polygamists, but who knows, they are creepy as hell. The women must make all their own clothes, they are not allowed to wear make-up, and they cannot cut their hair, supposedly according to the bible. They also don't do birth control; one of Mr. Afin's cousins is up to 12 kids now.

The women are isolated, whether by choice or not, I don't know. At family gatherings none of the women have ever said as much as one word to me in 15 years. They stay in a small area with their female offspring. The men, however, are very creepy friendly to me.

I just wonder if they are all going to get adequate counseling, since there are so many of them; I just hope they all realize they were being treated badly and that it is not God's will that they marry old men and aren't allowed to speak their minds.

This must be the sect Juniper Creek is based on. Gross.

@crotchety: Probably should've said God's name, but I meant the same thing.

@FancyInk: That's really interesting. I had no idea.

@XavierLucage: Agreed. The charity or educational activities of churches can get tax-exempt status in their own right, but if you just want to gather together and talk about loving god/Jesus/Mohamed/Xenu, you pays your taxes, please. Especially since so many mainstream churches engage in political activity.

@Meg: I just hope the girl is OK. The fact that they can't find her makes me worry that they powers that be have already gotten a hold of her and shut her up in some unimaginably awful way. If she makes it out, though, she'll be a hero.

@dosido: I am obviously not defending these FLDS people, but I definitely take issue with your assertion that "Mormons aren't Christian". I mean, they believe in Christ and they read the bible, what else do you want? I think this is much more about petty infighting among different protestant denominations than about some absolute definition of what a "Christian" religion is. 7th Day Adventists and jehova's witnesses are also often not considered Christian, for some reason. Maybe I am not so well-versed in this type of thing, but I can never understand how some obviously Christian denominations, however off-beat and non-traditional, are still not considered Christian even if they follow Christ and the scriptures. I am Catholic, btw, and not so into religion, and am also baffled when the term "Christian" is used to denote certain protestant sects exclusively and not others, or when "Christian" is used to describe only very devoted evangelicals and not other people who also participate in any Christ-based religion. I've def. spoken with a lot of evangelicals who don't consider Catholics "Christian" either. Again, this is based mostly on my ignorance of American religious identity more than anything else, but it still irks me.

these guys are why european countries are right when they refuse to allow nutball sects to call themselves religions and get away with crimes like this.

Not that I'm condoning arranged marriages between young girls and old creepy men, but why couldn't he have waited a year? Is 15 just that sexy? I guess it's the "illegal" factor.

Has anyone watched the segment that "Real Sports" ran a few months ago on the compound in Arizona? The reason for the peace was the high school basketball teams, as they are the only sports teams sponsored by the school because the community is so poor (although there is a boys and a girls team). The piece actually went really in depth into what makes the community tick, at least within the limits that their interview subjects would allow. It had a really interesting kicker--the girls' b-ball coach, who is from the outside, ended up joining a polygamist marriage.

I would recommend it to anyone who wants to visuals of the situation.

Makes me wonder whether the caller was a concerned bystander. Or else I'm worried about the whereabouts of the childbride. One or the other.

Sorry to potentially rain on everyone's parade, but how can adult women be removed from such a situation without their consent by CHILD Protective Services?

@Benevolent_Dictatrix: The mall bangs fulfill the edict apparently shared by all fundy religious groups, "The higher the hair, the closer to God".

God bless that girl for calling in the tip.

Yes, I realize how ironic that statement is.

@amowls: Waiting one year = one fewer kid she can pop out for God?

@Jezebabe...is a stern and angry midget!!!!: i agree with you..

its not fair of anyone to discredit someone else's beliefs, just because you dont understand them. yes, mormons are very different from other Christian groups, but then again, Protestantism is very different from Catholicism.

its not fair to define anyone by one standard. if they believe they're christian, they're christian.