Jezebel
In the aftermath of the Spitzer scandal, many feminists chastized Silda for opting out of her high-powered corporate law job to tend the hearth, but perhaps the blame should be placed on a system that often discriminates against pregnant women and mothers in the first place. According to an article in today's Wall Street Journal, in the past year, discrimination claims from pregnant women to the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission have risen 14%. While there is a Pregnancy Discrimination Act , most working women are shocked when they realize how little it covers. " The Journal observed a local gathering of more than 100 working mothers recently where an advertising exec said, "I thought we were protected. Then I find out we can be fired while we're pregnant, employers can refuse to hire us — what exactly are our rights?"
The Journal breaks pregnant women's rights down thusly: Employers can fire, lay off and refuse to hire knocked up ladies, but they have to provide ample proof that they held men to the same standards. They also have to provide maternity leave, as they would provide leave for any other medical issue, but in 48 of the 50 states, that leave doesn't have to be paid (readers in California and Washington State, you're the lucky ones).
And then, many women have to deal with blowhard employers like Sir Alan Sugar, the CEO-star of the British version of the Apprentice, who told the Times of London that, "Companies have no divine duty to help with childcare. Companies employ people. It's the Government's responsibility to provide childcare. You pay a person a salary and they cut their cloth accordingly." Sugar also added that female bosses are more likely to discriminate against female employees, because they are "more ruthless than men. They are more conscious of not employing other women because they feel they're not going to get the value of work out of them."
In Linda Hirshman's infamous American Prospect article about the "opt-out revolution," she suggests that if women want real equality, they must major in (mostly non-liberal arts) subjects that prepare them for the job market , make money, as money is "the marker of success in a market economy," and marry a man with bleak economic prospects, as he will be more likely to stay home with the babies. It's not that I don't agree with Hirshman — I think she's pretty much on the money — but I personally don't want to do any of those things, even though I acknowledge that I'm not helping feminism by being an English major who works in a low-rent field. Many self-proclaimed feminists feel the same way, so would it be more useful to organize and change the pregnancy laws instead of berating ourselves for making the choices that Silda, and so many of the rest of us, might one day make?
Why Stand By? [New York Magazine]
More Women Pursue Claims Of Pregnancy Discrimination [WSJ]
Women Bosses Are More Likely To Discriminate Against Mothers, Says Sir Alan Sugar [Times of London]
Comments
perhaps the blame should be placed on a system that often discriminates against pregnant women and mothers in the first place.
Bingo.
I'm not even close to being ready to have a baby but when I started my new job 2 months ago I was excited I can save and bank up to 45 sick days so if I do ever have a baby I can still get paid. So as long as I'm not sick for the next 4 years, I'm golden!
I dunno how to feel about this. (possibly because I can't have babies) Although, working in the finance field, if I was a woman, I definitely would not be trying to get pregnant. The world of finance hows gotten so volatile these days that EVERYONE is in fear of losing their jobs, not just expecting mothers.
And the female bosses who perpetuate this shit piss me off so much. I used to work for one like that. She dicked over so many of my co-workers because they decided to have kids.
Jessica You're obviously helping feminism by being at Jez! Hooray!
And while I don't think that pregnant women need to be coddled (if youre doing a shitty job and then you get pregnant and do an even shittier job i wouldnt necessarily advocate special treatment), obviously a paid maternity leave should be standard everywhere. And not hiring someone and firing someone just because they are pregnant should result in a hefty lawsuit that would guarantee the kid a free ride in college.
As if being pregnant and a mother isn't stressful enough...
This is a really tough issue for me. We hired a great woman last October, and she told us she was pregnant in November and taking 3 months maternity leave. It really screwed us over in several ways.
I can't help but think that what she did was shady. But I feel really guilty for thinking that at the same time. She didn't technically do anything wrong. I don't know, it's tricky.
@Reluctant Financier: *has... not hows. WTF brain?!?
And it may be hard to believe, but the current climate is better for fertile women than it was even twenty years ago. But we have to keep fighting to hold onto every right we have earned.
It pays to know the labor laws in your state or territory.
I see no comments yet and this is already annoying me. What is the point of feminism if all it does is limit options for women? Now we must all major in shit that's lucrative but may not hold our interest? Seriously, if you want a sure-fire professional track you have to go to grad or professional school for the most part. Also, why is money the most important measure of success? This is a values issue. But there is something to the whole partnering up with a person with goals that are compatible to your own. I certainly don't think people talk about or think about that nearly enough before they are hitched. In conclusion, let's not forget that there are many two-income households out there that are successfully managing careers and children, albeit with major sacrifices for all. It's all a matter what you want and need and as I've said a million times on this blog *it's a personal decision that no one else has the right to judge you for.*
This is not exactly on point, but my sister is an teacher and she is pregnant right now. When she was loading her kids onto the school bus one day, she heard some of the high school girls talking about her. They didn't think she could hear. One said "Is Mrs. Blackbirdflysister pregnant?" The other one says "oh, no girl. She just BIG now! Too bad too. She used to be pretty." Poor BBFsister.
@marybanjo: That strategy may be ok for you, but it doesn't address the fact that the father of your child does not need to hoard his sick days.
Fine, Sir Alan, let the government provide childcare (also, anyone ready to move to the UK if the gov. really DOES provide childcare???) but then be ready to have your ass and your company's ass TAXED for it. Mmmmkay?
I go tmy panties in a twist over the whole discussion on whether there should/should not be contempt for SAHMs. But one thing I failed to articulate, and wish I had, is that I actually would consider going back to work much sooner were there more part-time options here in teaching.
In California where I used to teach, job shares were common. But here in Austin, it's much, much less common and so I feel like I'm handicapped: either I stay at home or I work full-time. Mind you, my paycheck wouldn't cover childcare costs anyway, so working would simply be to keep my feet in the water for the day when I'm ready to return full-time.
The lack of options really bugs.
When I consider all of the things I want to do before I even think of getting pregnant -- find a stable job, make some money, buy a house, get Mr Rhody through law school -- it makes me ready to give up and be a puppy mommy for the rest of my life.
@marybanjo: I've been at my job for two years. I called in sick exactly one time, six months after I started. I still get my (figurative) balls busted for it. According to my boss, "You call in sick at your JOB. Not your CAREER."
I so need a new career.
@LoveNoelG: Did she become pregnant in November or take the job while pregnant and then disclose after accepting an offer of employment. If it was the latter, while what she did wasn't illegal, it was, as you put it, sketchy.
Either way, she hasn't been with the company long enough to earn maternity leave (most companies require a year of service) so she's kinda screwing herself over, too.
@LoveNoelG: yeah i understand how you feel, i dont have any babies but ive always felt that looking for a job before you have to go on a set vacation is sort of the same thing. like, they're hiring you cause you need someone and then after you're in you tell them you're leaving for 3 weeks to go backpacking in the arctic and its sort of shitty.
So as long as they treat men the same way, this is okay? I'm getting a separate but equal vibe from that.
Well, the law can't say your forbidden to fire any pregnant women. That's unreasonable. But employers get away with firing pregnant women and then blaming it on poor work performance or some other objective and hard to prove falsity. I think the most important change is paid maternity leave in ALL the states, for a minimum of six weeks.
@Reluctant Financier: i feel like i havent seen you round these parts for a while! hello.
@LoveNoelG:
We have the same situation. I am torn.
@OneMartiniAway: I still feel like I'm getting shit at work for being out for three days with bronchitis like a year ago. I was in the motherfucking hospital!
@Rhody: My dream is to have a country house with a lot of land, so I can adopt all the doggies I want and let them run free whilst I sip lemonade on the porch.
@esmemurphy: I couldn't agree more. Feminism is about doing what makes you happy, not "wearing the pants" ( I hate that term) in a relationship or marriage just to prove that you can do the same things men can do.
@ineffable.me: Yeah, I was on vacation for a month. I'm back now, so holla atcha peoples!!!11!
....btw, whats up with the stars next to some peoples' names?
When I was pregnant my boss (the president of the company) felt quite free to berate me openly in staff meetings, saying things like I was getting so big I couldn't run as fast as he needed me to. This, despite my working longer hours and with a broader scope of responsibilities than the men in the room. He became enraged one day when I was given the same amount of stock options as the other officers of the company, slamming his office door when I was standing in the doorway so that the door knocked into my huge eight month belly.
Then he told me that as soon as I got back from maternity leave (my paid sick time of six weeks and unpaid six weeks, during which I still managed all the board meetings remotely) he wanted me to fly with him to Japan and Korea twice a month. That's the day I decided I was resigning as soon as I was back long enough to meet the requirements of getting my sick leave.
Yep, misogyny is alive and well in corporate America, whether there's some faux policy "protecting" you or not.
@hamburgerhotdog: That's true. However, if she tells them six or seven months before her baby is due then she may be eligible by the time it's born depending on the company and how tight their HR policies are. I must say that if a super qualified candidate walked into an interview with me and she seemed like an excellent fit for the company, I might consider hiring her even if she was pregnant. Three months leave is not forever, depending on your field. And really good colleagues that are also a fit for the culture of your workplace are sooo hard to find.
@blackbirdfly: whoa dude. that shit is fucked. i am so serious about minimum 4 weeks vacation, at least 10-12 sick days a year if not way more. we're fucking human beings.
@OneMartiniAway: WTF? You can't get sick at your career? Never mind that you're spreading the disease if you come in sick...
Ugh. Aunt Flo and I hate all men today, minus Mr K and the Sithling. No wait, maybe I misunderstood Auntie...she says all PEOPLE suck. LOL.
@Reluctant Financier: Agreed. Granted I'm not thinking about having kids anyway, but it would not be the ideal time in our industry anyway. (Not like there is really ever a great time for women to have babies in finance, but still…)
@J.D.Regent: Yeah see Alan Sugar can say whatever he likes, but at least mandatory maternity leave and stringent laws on firing pregnant women in the EU mean that he can't really do anything about it.
To be fair, most people I know around here do think it's the government's responsibility to provide childcare, the same way we all expect them to provide healthcare and education.
@ineffable.me: But if you are up front about it when you are offered the job, what does it matter? Should you stop living in preparation for the job search or a job offer that may or may not materialize? Being gone a week or two seriously shouldn't be *that* much of a problem. If a place is so understaffed that people can't go away on vacation, that's a management issue.
@Lizawithazee: I should point out there was no need for me to go other than to provide him with an audience.
In Linda Hirshman's infamous American Prospect article about the "opt-out revolution," she suggests that if women want real equality, they must major in (mostly non-liberal arts) subjects that prepare them for the job market , make money, as money is "the marker of success in a market economy," and marry a man with bleak economic prospects, as he will be more likely to stay home with the babies.
But what Linda fails to take into account is that few are going to want to sacrifice their own happiness in this way. I didn't major in English and Politics for feminism, or even really for jobs, but instead because I LIKE and am interested in those areas. Now I'm having trouble finding meaningful work in those fields with just a BA, but I'm gainfully employed. And I married the guy I married because he's sweet and charming and crazy fun to be around. He just so happens to be a doctor. I'm sorry I didn't base my choices around what would be best for womankind, but ultimately my choices only have to make one person happy: me.
@rah29: Also that comment was really confused because I hadn't properly finished it before accidentally hitting submit... Oh well.
@hamburgerhotdog: She was several months along when she told us.
It's just that during the hiring process, we discussed upcoming projects and things we needed her to do and she was totally on board. I guess it's our fault for not putting time thresholds on maternity leave, but we assume people are honest and considerate. That, and she had horrible morning sickness and was out for several days a week for like two months. Noone wants to come off as picking on the pregnant lady, so we just suck it up.
Ugh, thinking about it this much is pissing me off.
Can I just share that I watched "The Miracle of Life" last night (for work reasons) and it freaked me out SO much and I had pregnancy dreams and now it's getting worse. Fetuses have eyes that look like black dots! That is CRAZY.
@HS Kinn: Fucking seriously!!! Get this shit: I requested a day off to participate in an eight-mile walk for MS, and my boss said (direct quote, btw):
"Well, if you think that's more important than doing your job and making money, then I guess you could put in a FORMAL request and I'll consider it."
Aunt Flo and I hate the world today too.
@LoveNoelG: I used to work in human resources for a large retail store that you are all familiar with. We aren't allowed to ask about pregnancy when we hired people, but for six months straight every cashier we hired announced she was pregnant within a week. When you are seven or eight months along, standing up for a seven hour shift is exhausting, so they asked if we could schedule them as operator, which is literally the only sitting down job in the store. Then they'd yell at us because we cut their hours. Because when you have seven pregnant women and only 97 open hours in a week, no one is getting 40 hours. There was no way to win, as employers or as employees.
Before I went into the work world, I thought the standard was 3 months paid maternity leave, which I thought was shitty compared to Europe. Now I realize it is 3 months unpaid maternity leave. Go USA.
@J.D.Regent: Yeah. It's not like I'm not allowed to take off, but apparently, I'm supposed to feel guilty about it.
If I had my way, I would take off for the first two days of my period every single motherfucking month.
My sil used to get hassle at BNY Securities for NOT coming when she felt sick.
Does knowledge of finance prevent people from understanding epidemiology?
Even working at a woman's service magazine, you have to be careful about calling in sick. If you have a supportive Editor in Chief(heart SKU) you are have a bit of leeway, but if you have a Creative Director that is "childless" it can be hard. The truth of the matter is most "Mommies" use, and save our sick days for our kids. Very few people have "nannies", they have to figure out what to do with a sick child, and how to juggle the job....it is not easy.
I am seriously glad I work for the company that I do. If I get knocked up they'd probably throw me a parade. They're so chill and really focused on keeping the employees they've got for the long run, that getting pregnant wouldn't really be an issue at all. Those Europeans. All understanding and shit.
And I often feel guilty knowing I'll be leaving in 2-3 once grad school is done. But the world has bigger plans for Meaghan2k. The insurance world wants her, but they won't be able to keep her.
@Reluctant Financier: Also, my favorite story about my friend's boss who got pregnant (works on Wall Street)… well, she decided that she was under no obligation to tell the seniors up (she was pretty senior herself). She was walking around 9 months pregnant and still refused to say anything! It was awesome.
That kind of discrimination doesn't just happen during pregnancy, you get 18 more years after that. I'm trying to re-enter the workforce (in a science field) after staying home with my child for 10 years.
On my first interview after I explain the gap in my work history (making it clear that my only child is now 16), the male interviewer says "You seem very devoted to your family, are you sure that you are ready to start working again?" Why else would I be there? I didn't get the job, big surprise, eh?