More power to him, I say.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: it's criminal the way we treat transfolk. I hope he has a happy, healthy baby.

Did anyone watch Transgeneration? One of the transmales went to Smith and had to deal with that kind of stuff.

But Quart also discusses the question of how colleges meant for women are supposed to serve people who no longer identify as women in the first place.

I am off to read the original piece, to try and wrap my head around this whole thing. I am sure I will fail.

Just read the pregnant man piece last night and was fascinated by it. Especially because there's always that "if men could get pregnant..." hypotehtical thrown out there. In this case, they can.

My big question is they're going to tell the kid he's the dad, but what about the details? It's hard enough for adults to grasp this, let alone children, but I think what he's doing is really brave. And also, to be superficial for a moment, kinda hot - the facial hair and round belly certainly made a sexy impression on me. Perhaps for the novelty, but also visually are just so arresting.

Will society ever be able to accommodate all the facets of the gender spectrum? Or will cases like Thomas's and Rey's always be a struggle for acceptance and personal freedom?

I think eventually society will accept transgendered people, but it's going to take a very, very long time.

I was at Columbia when that kid was at Barnard and I remember it being quite the hubub across the street. It's such a confusing topic that people just seem so ill-equipped to deal with.

Totally non-judgmentally, that's complicated story for the child to understand. But we all have our stories.

I have the same reaction to the pregnancy story as I do to a friend of mine who went MTF: I want to be supportive and I wish you the best of luck, but I'm not gonna lie--this is damn weird.

@tiffcat: That show should be required watching for everyone. I loved it.

It makes me so mad that his brother would say something like that to him. And medical professionals too.

@sabbaticalplease: It definitely will be hard to explain to a five year old, and you're right with us all having our own stories.
I hate when people bitch about a gay or lesbian couple adopting a child because it'll be "so hard to explain" or "fuck up the kid."
Is it hard to explain to your kids about their mother's mental disorder? What about that Daddy is an alcoholic? Some people act as if all hetero couples are saints, and gay couples will raise the children in a den of sexual depravity.
I'd MUCH rather a baby be with a happy gay/lesbian couple than a fucked up straight couple.

I have to deal with it all the time at workplace #2. If I have to check someone in for chemical asses. or detox, I usually ask them where they would feel better being. Strangly the transgenders to female, would out and out rather be detoxing with the men, because they get less grief, and less of a chance of getting beaten up by the men than the women.

People reeeeeally like to generalize and compartmentalize. I don't know if we'll ever get over it. I mean, generalization is partly necessary to parse information, but then people cling to it like it's the gospel truth.

weird

i don't mean that in an offensive way, thats just what popped into my mind

@lustylady: I think the best thing you can do is be honest with your child about the situation and how he was conceived. He's obviously going to notice that dad lacks a penis eventually.

@misssgolightly: Transgender is truly a difficult concept for a lot of people to grasp and accept. Thankfully for me it was a matter of shrugging, saying OK, and replacing he with she. I just don't care if someone is transgendered or not.

Gender identity issues are really kind of strange. The process of reassignment often creates as many issues as it solves for some people. A lot of the ones I have met, seem just rather miserable in general.

I'm not sure if it's because of internal issues, societal issues and perceptions they have to fight, being shunned by some members of the gay/lesbian community. Maybe a combination of many things.

Though I certainly think it's great that this couple is able to have a child.

@misssgolightly: Agreed. My boss and his partner have a 7 year old girl who's the shit. They understand that there will be hurdles, but that's the case for every parent. She's really never had any issues, because she's not being brought up to be ashamed. About herself, or her parents.

@exelizabeth: My point being, gender bending stuff really freaks people out, because it brings home people's individuality and nonconformity.

But I think that's just lazy. People don't really want to think about it.

thanks for posting this, jessica.

@misssgolightly: Plus, there are tons of things you hear about when you are 5 that you don't fully understand until you are older. Most kids don't sit in their room, depressed, mulling these things over. They accept an explanation, probably ask a few weird questions, and scamper back to play with the other kids.

And we should stop thinking that the hatred that kids of gay or lesbian or trans couples might encounter is a good reason for these people to not have children. It's a societal problem and the root of it is ignorance, not the existance of these families.

That being said, people who are transgender have such a different experience than gay people because they appear to be the opposite gender than their biological sex.

re: the pregnant daddy: AWESOME.

re: Rey: my favorite thing about that story was how supportive his girlfriend was and is. Who knows if they'll last, but she's definitely a keeper. My opinion of Barnard is... less favorable.

I like to think I am accepting, but I'm not gonna lie - I went to an all women's college, and I'm not sure how comfortable I would've felt if I saw what looked like a "man" using the bathrooms, showers, walking our halls at night ...

I'm not saying I would feel threatened, or whatever, but I would feel .. different?

But, then again with the passage of time I would most likely grow used to it.

this is a great post. more power to them.

@rocknrollunicorn: I think as long as the parents (gay or straight) of the child are perfectly capable of allowing their child to decide their sexuality for themselves, and not fear a lack of support, then who cares what the sex is.

If you raise a child with the intent that they are going to be gay, or straight, or bi, by tailoring their world view to meet yours, then there are issues.

I find this to be an incredibly beautiful story. I hate the way we treat any type of "different" person in this society. I hope that the way I teach my kids helps to make this world happier and safer for trans folk.

This must be difficult for him, too. He was undergoing hormone treatment to become more male, and here he is, doing the "quintessential" female thing. (Not saying that pregnancy and birth is what every woman wants/ought to do, just that so far, it's only been women who have been able to.) I just think that it's a very brave and loving thing to do for your partner/family.

Sure it may be difficult to explain, but I'm guessing that trans issues will be a topic in that home anyway. Christ, when my son was little and learning about bodies, I couldn't even bring myself to say, "Men have a penis, women have a vagina," because that's just not always true.

@Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka: Is having a man (originally), who believes his is, acts, walks, and talks, like a woman see you naked any worse or better than a woman (originall), who believes she is, acts, walks, and talks like a man seeing you naked?

Then there's the issue where it gets confusing. A good number of trans people are gay/lesbian. They've become a female, but prefer female companions. Or vice versa.

Kid's gonna be a Cancer or a Leo. Open-minded parents, good luck.

I don't know, the pair "really wanting a biological baby" is the part of this that rubs me the wrong way somehow. He cut off his lady lumps and took testosterone to become a MAN, yes? Men don't bear children. They can't. It is one of the gifts and burdens of being a woman. Like breasts. Which he cut off.

If this was a bio man who went through multiple surgeries to have a child, I wouldn't feel good about it either. I don't know. I can understand the argument that some people don't feel a gender dichotomy in the way most of us do, but I'm having a weird "having your cake and eating it too" reaction to this.

Er...Sorry to bring a delicious cake analogy into an anatomical discussion.

@LilahCello:

totally. i'm sure it was a very difficult choice for him to give up, even briefly, his gender. and to face that kind of SHIT from the medical community as well... fuck man. seriously. the way trans people are treated in the healthcare system can be criminal.

there's a lot of fear wrapped up in this stuff. people tend to identify so strongly with their gender, and to throw that into question really, truly scares most people. and fear leads to hate leads to aggression.

@Xavoc:

transitioning is no cup of tea. and there is SO much transphobia WITHIN the gay community. i was at oxford in... 2000, and their LGB group voted NOT to add the "T." marginalized by others who are marginalized.

@MrsButterworth:

how about more like never getting what you want at all and settling for some kind of in between that, for many people, is difficult to deal with forever?

@MrsButterworth: In general I take issue with people who are obsessed with having biological children. But only after they've tried without medical intervention.

Even though medical intervention also happened in this case, it seems different.

I do see what you mean, though.

1. WTF?! I know a shitload of transguys who get all dreamy about gaybies one day. This is fucking LAME. Sure, it's weird because it's rare and different and about as far from status quo as you can get, but so are fucking, I don't know, the BMIs of models.

2. There are elementary school-level videos dealing with K-6 kids learning about and talking about and dealing with homosexuality and they all resoundingly demonstrate that the older kids get, the less tolerant. THIS IS NOT DIFFICULT FOR KIDS TO GRASP. The younger they are, the more loving, accepting and tolerant they are. As they get older and are raised by ignorant, bigoted, shelter-y parents, plus all the stealthy homophobic shit in kids tele/movies, THAT is how you get kids who have a hard time with it, yo.

3. Also? Hi. Gay ass fucking dyke mother of one here. The petite is already stronger, more logical, thoughtful, determined, compassionate and honest than most adults I've met, or meet. Suck on that. She sure as hell won't grow up to be the kind of person who recoils from people who are different from her.

@MrsButterworth: I kind of understand where you are coming from. My first reaction was, "Dang it, this dude has it all, he gets to live the life of a man, and all the perks that come along with that, and have a baby too!" Then again, they have probably been through enough crap in their life that it isn't really fair to think of it as the "having their cake and eating it, too" analogy.

the pic skeeves me out. Will his baby be a bucket o' beer? Cuz that's a little more likely...and a lot less creepy.

@MrsButterworth: "having your cake and eating it too?" I don't even get what you mean by that. I would maybe understand it if what this man was going through was really easy, but he's had to jump through all kinds of hoops and put up with peoples' shit to do it.

@MrsButterworth: if I could get pregnant and have a baby, I'd seriously consider it (well, maybe not, after the traumatizing birthing thread the other day, but in the abstract it's still appealing). I'm way more interested in the idea of children than my girlfriend is, anyway. Why should we accept the limitations evolution has imposed on us? Isn't that one of the core questions posed by transgender / genderqueer philosophy?

Anyone who likes thinking about these things should dig up the reprint of Shulamith Firestone's The Dialectic of Sex. It's a lost radical feminist classic, and I promise it will totally monkey with your notions of gender and parenting and how they intersect.

@MrsButterworth: The biological baby part strikes me in a weird way too... not because of what you mentioned, but because of the many babies (and older children) in this world who need to be adopted by a couple, like the couple in this article, who would provide a loving home.

I understand that you can't force people to adopt, and I am NOT advocating that. It's just... always an option, I guess.

Anyway, this story warms my heart!

@inchworm: Yeah, I've heard a lot about that unfortunately. You'd think the people who preach most about wanting tolerance and understanding, would be so themselves. Though their internal factions with gender phobia/inferiority complexes seem to be a good part at fault of this.

This is going to sound crass, and likely a bit dismissive, but a lot of it, from what I've been told, seems to come down to penis/vagina envy.

@I, SBJ, A Fucking Dyke: you're my new queer hero!

I'll probably get kicked for saying this, but I'm sometimes skeptical of people taking vast medical steps as part of being transgendered. If you treat gender as a social construction, then the ideal would be for any person to be able to identify anywhere on the gender spectrum as they are; making giant, difficult adjustments to your actual sex characteristics actually goes against this, by connecting the gender identification with actually being that sex. In a world where people could easily identify with any point on the gender spectrum, it's hard to imagine why you'd take the somewhat essentialist step of manipulating your sex. It's something that sometimes bothers me about older M-to-F transsexuals I've met, some of whom decided to become women so that they'd be "allowed" to act out caricatures of femininity that, on paper, would probably be called completely sexist and demeaning. In at least one of their cases, I'm convinced that if this man had grown up in a world where he felt it was acceptable for him, as a man, to do things like bake cookies for his coworkers and wear perfume and act motherly, he'd have had no need or interest in spending a fortune acquiring the genitalia he felt went along with that behavior.

(That said, transgendered and transexual folks are under no obligation to go disconnecting "sex" from "gender," so obviously I don't have any blanket complaints with whatever they decide they'd like to do.)

@MrsButterworth: I don't really have anything to add - just that this reminds me of the episode of Six Feet Under I watched last night, in which David & Keith discuss using a surrogate to have a baby. Keith was really adamant about wanting to have a baby with his genetic material, whereas David just wanted a baby and didn't care about whether it would have a genetic connection to him or not.

I can see what you're saying about him wanting to be a man, and yet wanting to retain the baby-making ability of a female. The concept seems really foreign to me, I'll admit, and my mind is whirring, trying to understand the mechanics of it. I haven't gotten past that point yet.

@I, SBJ, A Fucking Dyke: Thank you!

Kids pretty much don't judge people by race, sexual preference, religion, economic status, until they are taught those concepts by adults, and receive influence as to what is good/bad from those adults.

I totally agree they've got the right to have children, and it's great they can....but they can't be surprised that people are a little weirded out by the whole thing. I mean, he's a man and he's pregnant. That's a little like the sky turning green or cats barking. It's just not the way things work in nature.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just saying it's not what most folks are used to.

Also - is he planning to get a penis, or stick with the vagina? I can understand being transgender and having sex reassignment surgery, but honestly I'm a little confused about why he kept the vagina, unless it was primarily for birthin' babies. Can someone explain?

@What's_Your_Poison: ahem. not that the daddy having the bebe is creepy, but the prego man pic....def bizarre looking. Still, more power to them. Such as. for the children.

This is such a difficult life to choose, difficult road to walk. Can't say I'm comfortable with the pics but if their child is raised with love and discipline, it's 1000x better than "no-watch" parents...I'm still freaking over the GGW!

@briardahl: i think that's why some transpeople choose to do nothing at all. i mean some people identify as genderqueer (like your truly) and don't feel traditionally male or female as some people would

@edgyspice: I guess because I'm surprised that someone who felt so strongly about their gender identity that they had SURGERY to "correct" it would undo part of that journey in order to have a biological child. Particularly when there are so many adoptable children in the world.

@briardahl: Gender identity issues tend to run a bit deeper than that. People facing them often have a severe attachment to acts, behaviors, feelings, situations, and reactions as being decidedly male or female. It isn't a societal expectation issue so much as it is a huge division with how that individual views the world and how it operates around them.

@kansasgirl: ditto - thanks

@Miss Smith Drank Your Vodka: I know what you mean. I think the thing that makes it difficult to process is that when someone announces they're, for example, FTM transgender, we know we're supposed to then call them by their "male" name if they've chosen one, refer to them as "he," and feel like we're just not open-minded enough if we have problems thinking of them as a man. So someone saying, "I know I'm a man; I'm definitely a man, don't you dare say I'm not. By the way, I want to enroll at your all-women's college," is a little, well, like someone said, "having your cake and eating it too." Maybe in the actual case the student felt more androgynous than strictly male?

I don't think the kid will have a hard time understanding this, though. "Mommy couldn't have you in her tummy, so we put you in Daddy's tummy instead." That doesn't seem hard. Yeah, they can have more nuanced discussions later on, but for a kid, that seems fine.

@Xavoc:

well, i don't know about that. as a real-life lesbian, most of the other (granted, lesbians) i've known with trans issues have been more afraid of being stereotyped. like, i'm a lesbian but i am soooo femmy and "normal!" i'm not like those trans dudes! which is just playing into ever more definitions. like, there are all shapes and sizes of gay. and straight!

and some people (gays) take the line that transitioning has nothing to do with sexuality. and that's true. many trans persons, after they have transitioned, are gay. many are straight. many are bi. people tend to conflate gender and sexuality.

that said, in social events at LGB(T) organizations, even the straights are allowed. at more "support" group type events, there is a lot of intersection between the issues faced by transpersons and teh gays. especially since many gay women and men do push the boundaries of gender roles a bit (femmy men, butch women, cross dressing, etc).