Jezebel

Bitter much?

Oh snap.

um, newsflash, feminism has NEVER been in the kind of style people call "in style." that's what makes us so edgy and underground and shit.

I am going to use my favorite new exclaimation that I found here on Jezebel: For the fuck of SHIT. I' d love to slap that woman.

yeouch. i dunno about you, but someone smells like she was BURNED in her lifetime.

Oh, well, if she did THAT much research, then obvs she knows what she's talking about. And her thinking isn't specious at all. Nope.

And I guess if I don't vote for Hillary because I don't like her stand on the issues, and vote for Barack instead because I do, I'm a bad feminist? Jesus, if that's what the writer thinks feminism was/is about, she's right, that's "out of style", and I'll pass.

@AbbyNormal: heehee.

Haven't you heard? Chauvinism is the new white belt!

She's a great and extremely intelligent columnist -- the smartest one in that paper by far -- and I think her point is this: somehow, a young generation of girls have no idea what feminism is and what it means, and in fact don't think they ARE feminists. We've had that debate on this very site.

I have a 17-year-old daughter too, and she wouldn't know who Gloria Steinem is, and she's not being taught about it in school either.

And the attacks on Clinton for crying by other women? That was bullshit.

@cinemaddict: snort! But can we wear it after Labor Day?

I was, and still am, totally put off and saddened by the bitter backlash against Hillary for becoming emotional. JFC! WTF! I don't get negativity about it.

Can we just agree that one will be Prez and one VP and they can flip a coin about who? Because Hills and Barack tearing each other up is really pissing me off.

Maybe, uhhh, she should teach her daughter who Gloria Steinem is? I mean, feminism is one of those things that transmits really clearly from mother to daughter. Like big thighs, or The Crazies.

Feminism isn't failing because women aren't embracing each other as sisters. Feminism, at least the old guard, is failing because it's out of touch with the young generation and keeps pandering to the Boomers. Kinda like Hillary Clinton.

@leMaldeTete: I got my Gloria Steinem knowledge from my mom. Actually, it arrived the same year as my big thighs. The crazy is just now manifesting itself.

Of course, because being a feminist entails standing behind a woman simply because she's a woman. I guess I should stop hating Ann Coulter and Hasslebeck now because vaginas flock together.

@hamsterpants: If that makes you a bad feminist, then I'm probably going to Feminist Hell right alongside you.

The "Vote for Hillary - she has the same parts as us!" mentality really gets under my skin. Like I'm somehow a bad person because I'm a feminist that supports the man as the candidate/President.

@leMaldeTete: I have had the conversation with my daughter about Gloria Steinem and other feminists, but the fact is, feminism is not being taught in our schools, we are not seeing women out burning their bras as we were when I was a young kid, and stories of smart and successful and feminist women do not get reported -- yet the stories of losers like Paris Hilton, Britney Spears and others do.

Parents can only teach so much. Did you listen to your parents' blatherings as a teenager? It would be nice if our culture wasn't so utterly fucked and that girls were reading feminist viewpoints in newspapers and watching them on TV and seeing them in movies. This is why I so loved Juno.

@Trixie from Toronto: She makes some valid points, but doesn't clearly tie her argument together for me, unless making sweeping generalizations is the crux. Women have no faith in their communities? Actually, the most fierce and devoted advocates of community awareness and activism I know are African American women. So I take umbrage with that statement. But I'd have to read more of her work to really make a decision about her beyond this article.

And, for some reason, the out-of-style comment makes me think of Feminism on Project Runway, with Heidi giving it the double kiss and saying Auf Wiedersehen.

@leMaldeTete: LOL!

@notaclevername: Exactly.

I also want to take issue (again) with the idea that you have to be a woman to be feminist. If you're an advocate for and supporter of women, then you're a feminist. Under my definition, my dad is a feminist, many of my male co-workers are feminist, and many of my guy friends are feminist. Feminism is about more than anatomy. It's a philosophy and set of beliefs. So, I don't feel compelled to support the female candidate simply because she has ovaries. I support the candidate who I believe will best represent my interests, and this time out, I believe that candidate is Obama.

Okay, riddle me this, Batgirls... why does voting for a woman supposedly make me a feminist? Wouldn't my (taught by mama) belief that men and women should have an equal place in our society be a more accurate measure? This is why more women don't self identify as feminists; they don't even know what the word means, only what it implies. The implication is one of shrill, man-hating, sexlessness. It's also completely untrue.

@scarletvirtue: It's the same idea that black people should vote for Barack because he's black - I guess if you're black and a chick you have to flip a coin - look, if the only sensibility and thought you're bringing to the table on whom to vote for is to go with the person whose skin color and genitalia most closely resemble your own, please, stay home. Fuck, the last jackass was voted in by quite a few people who said "he'd be fun to have a beer with".

@leMaldeTete: Oh dear Lord, I am glad this is not true. My mother believes that all feminists worship Satan and want all men to die. And that this is their true feminist platform.

I do have her bigass thighs, though.

@Trixie from Toronto: I learned about GS from my mom, not in school. I get the sense that young women (under 20) associate feminism with hairy armpits and, perhaps, do not realize that, not so long ago, asserting equality with men was very revolutionary. There are more women than men in college and more women than men graduate HS (I believe). Law schools have more women than men. It is a very different time to be a girl.

I'm surprised -- Von Hahn usually writes about rich people's problems

I gotta say, before I saw the backlash against HRC I was more ambivalent toward her, but I have to admire the way she deals with the utter shit. I cannot believe how pulled-together she is, and how fearless.

I don't really "like" her, but I haven't "liked" anyone else I voted for, nor do it "like" a lot of the leadership at work. But I know who is going to do the work and who is going to sit on their asses writing carefully crafted e-mails that don't actually address anything.

@leMaldeTete: Thank you! If your daughter doesn't know who Steinem is, YOU suck! Exactly who is responsible for teaching her that? She is right about us all being the nasties to each other though.

Wouldn't I be a hypocrite to support a woman (Hillary) who doesn't even have enough of a backbone to leave a cheating husband, but yet call my self a feminist JUST for voting for a woman? FUCK that!

@PhillyLass: Word, sister. We are on the same page today.

Also, shout out to my dad, who also made sure I got the Gloria Steinem message, the "You can be anything you want to be" message and took me to Take your daughter to work day annually.

But TYDTWD is a way that old-guard feminism is out of touch. Even when I went, 16 years ago, I saw plenty of women there as I did men, and many women were in leadership positions. The first time I went, I didn't understand the concept or why boys wouldn't be allowed.

For a long time, I didn't self-identify as a feminist, because the feminists I knew didn't shave their armpits and railed against women for wearing pink and I thought, "That's not a group I want to be a part of." Part of what I've learned here is that I can be a feminist and shave my pits and wear pink and do all of that with thoughtfulness of what exactly it means and why exactly I'm doing it. I can also consider voting for Obama or Clinton and neither one is an affront or a promotion of my gender.

@Trixie from Toronto: I agree that a majority if not all of Gen X and Gen Y females are not being taught about women like Steinem, and to that point are also uninformed about the idea of feminism. But how do you quantify 'feminism'? As you pointed out, we've had this discussion about a million times on this site and every time the answer is different as it means different things to different people. Me personally, I was def one of those women that eschewed the word 'feminist' because in my mind it meant hairy legged, free tit swinging, loud barking activist type woman who enjoyed nothing more than pouncing on oppresive types and beating them into delusional submission with my placard. But that (incorrect) interpretation came from ignorance, simply because no-one ever discussed the topic with me before.
I think the ideals or definition of feminism are going to be somewhat different for everyone, and like everything else I think feminism can and should change with the times. Adaption is necessary for survival, in fact, I can attribute my change in thinking to Jezebel and the discussions that I have participated in. I'm not so sure that saying that we must "embrace each other like sisters.." is the most appealing argument though.

@kityglitr: For some reason I think that because I refuse to vote for a candidate soley because she is a woman, I am truly a feminist.

Karen Von Hahn is a stupid entitled cunt who usually writes about shopping for luxury "must-haves". Feminism is better off without her tiresome swanning.

@TheOtherJen: So, if she left Bill you would approve of her? Ha, judging her decision to stay with him has nothing to do with feminism.

Feminisim isn't a dirty word.

@Hez: That's a terrible thing to say. And I even like the c-word. It's not even an accurate description of what she writes. She hasn't done the shopping stuff in years.

And way to prove her point, by the way. Wow.

When I was in 7th grade, my mom overheard something I said and told me that I was a feminist. And so I went around for months afterward being all, "Fuck you! I'm a feminist." And then my older brother (jerkoff) told me that if I'm a feminist then I must be a lesbian. And already feeling quite confused by the ickiness of 7th grade and perhaps staring at one of the 8th grader's boobs just a bit long in the locker room after PE, I got all upset and decided that I wasn't a feminist after all. I think people are afraid of declaring themselves feminists because they are afraid of having their sexuality questioned. Particularly teenage girls, I suppose, because they are already facing all sorts of scrutiny anyway.

Oh, for fuck's sake. I'm glad to be reminded once again that being a "good" feminist is not about making the choices I decide on my own but following some predetermined notion. I'm just a dumb girl, so it's easy for me to forget.

"embrace each others like sisters" to me is just a fluffy way to say 'stop the crazy (classic) oppressed group behavior that permeates female interactions'. It is a fact that women are nasty to one another far too often. Let us all agree RIGHT NOW not to do that in our own lives. It's frickin' hard to do!

I want Hillary to win so I can see more Bill again. I love me some Bill. Does that make me a feminist, or an anti-feminist?

I don't identify as a "feminist" either. I believe 100% that women are equal to men in almost all social ways (and the ways in which we are not the same, and in which we excel more naturally at different things, I don't see as evidence of "inequality," just difference), but I really, really hate the way that feminism looks at and portrays women. I don't think about being a woman as I go through life; I think about being a human, a person. I feel that feminismm, by making us look at everything through the prism of being a woman (I know we do that anyway, but we don't do it so consciously), stifles any equality I have by making me so conscious of and reactive an inequality that is much more subtle than it used to be. I understand feminism's place in history, and I recognize that without the movement I wouldn't have the equality I have today, but I also think being stringently "feminist" moves me backwards. Why do I have to do, say, or think everything "as a woman"? Why can't I just live like a person?

@TheOtherJen: @shuffler: I have to agree with shuffler. If HRC doesn't feel her husband's infidelity was/is a reason for divorce, what business is that of mine? And what bearing does it have on whether or not I believe in equal rights for equal pay? Just suppose Hills has a lovah of her own, (what? it could happen!) maybe her and Bill like it that way, maybe that's how they get down. They sure seem like a fierce team on the campaign trail and when he was in the WH.

@stacyinbean: Do you have teenaged daughters? Because honestly, that is a lot easier said than done. They pretty much start to clue you out once they get to 12, no matter what you do or how often you're in their faces.

And no shit about being nasty to one another. Calling someone a "stupid entitled cunt" because you disagree with one of her columns. Whoa!

@LadySkittlehattington: A lot of people refuse to identify as a feminist (and I was one of these people) because it sounds "radical" and "polarizing" but in reality, it's not a radical concept. Everyone in the world should be able to proudly stand up and say, "I think women and men should be treated as inherently human, and sex and gender shouldn't be a part of the equation." But apparently that kind of thinking is "out". What the fuck ever.

"I don't think about being a woman as I go through life; I think about being a human, a person"

And therein lies the rich and rewarding inheritance of feminism. Want to go to college? Great! Want to work full time? Great! Want to control your fertility? Do it. etc... etc.... etc... Could you feel the way you do if you were a woman of the '50s?

Would it be un-feminist of me to leave a steamer on the pillow of Karen Von Hahn?

@Onalee: Exactly. I think that's the point.

@sequined: I completely agree with you. I eventually got over it, grew up, and stopped getting my panties all twisty over some loser shit my brother said.

LOL at "feminism is out of style"

What's next from the Files of the Obvious?

@ThaKadinskyPapers:

She obviously stayed with him for political reasons, why else would you stay with a cheat that drug you through a embarrassing charade for all the world to see?

I just have a lot of trouble letting someone w/o any backbone run my country, regardless of what sex or race they are. I just don't think she's strong enough for the job. Shrewd and power-hungry yes, but character and backbone? None.

The more you encourage a group to be independent, the less they will act like and vote like each other. Dare I say, that NOT voting for Hilary is a feminist ideal - as a woman I get to choose who I vote for.

As a woman, I HATE the national organization for women, and they do not speak for me. Ever.

@Onalee: Thank you! Honestly, I don't understand women who are feminists in thought but refuse to call themselves feminists. I've found Gloria Steinem eminently tiresome recently, and very out of touch, but there are different strands of feminism. The one thing that unites are all, I think, is a commitment to equal citizenship and gender equality in various domains, both public and private.

So this is slightly off topic, but I have been reeling off of this all day.

I'm talking to a friend today and she's all, "I'm not following the elections because they don't affect me and all politicians lie, blah, blah, blah...Just tell me who to vote for and I'll vote for them."

Mind you, she works in education, so I would think she would care about the elections given No Child Left Behind and all, nevertheless...

I suggest she vote for Obama, to which she says:

"I'm not voting for him - he's just a facebook fad, like something to put on your profile to look cool."

Mind you, this is a woman in her mid/late 20's.

She continued that people are just voting for him because he's black and people think black people are cool (she's black).

My mind was blown. She insisted she wouldn't even read up on him because she didn't want to feed into the fad.

And then she said Clinton was a fad, too, and my head exploded. Sometimes, I do not think its okay that everyone is allowed to vote.

@Ms. Pants: yes, it would.

@ae38: How did you contain yourself from bitchslapping her? Seriously. That is profoundly disturbing.

@ae38: Doesn't that just kind of leave Edwards? Poor guy, he's not even popular enough to be a fad... No, seriously, that whole encounter blows my mind. I hope you managed to collect up the bits of your head that exploded.