first

i'd hang with her.

Sk8librarian, we don't do that here. Please refrain from it in the future, because it sucks.

@sk8librarian: Damn you. I lost what I had to say when I scrolled down and saw that you had typed "First"

I'll agree that she's awesome if she ever gets this brothel off the ground. I feel like she's been flogging this project for years for press and it's just not going anywhere.

It was Doestoevsky who said people can adjust to anything. But that's close. Maybe Oscar said it too.

@MissSamAdams: For a second, I thought I accidently navigated to Perez Hilton's page.

I'm definitely down with Fleiss.

I don't know that all sex workers are wise, though.

@cheera: Wait, is that a thing? That's so weird. What if by the time you post you're NOT first?

Honestly, I just feel bad for her, if only because that Jamie Lynn Sigler tv movie was the worst Lifetime Soft Porn of all time.

@Pinkosaurus: Oh that is def true. She has no money or backing. I meant to point that out.

@rose0red: I was actually shocked...it was so foreign like I was reading another language.

I think she is smart...but have you ever seen Cat House...? Not every sex worker is smart.

(do you think Heidi Fleiss is awesome?) YES!!

(And also: why are sex workers always so wise?) Um, isn't it obvious? They are the ultimate in pragmatism and capitalism. An old whore can work a room better than Bill Clinton.

(And also: would you fuck a male whore?) I wouldn't rule it out.

@Susan B.: Yeah, it's totally a thing, and most of the time people aren't first . . . so you get, like, 20 retards posting "first," all in a row. I say flag, flag, flag. That shit is so annoying.

If you haven't seem Nick Broomfield's documentary of her ("Heidi Fleiss: Hollywood Madam"), it's well worth renting.

@TeenageGangDeb: Yeah. I've liked Fleiss ever since I read 'Panderings', her artsy coffeetable book. It's totally worth a look, you guys. The coffee mugs she got addicted to making in prison were so prosh.

Also, is the question whether I would simply fuck a male whore or whether I would pay for the privilege?

@sk8librarian: it doesn't count if you don't actually have anything to say, really.

@rose0red: One might say Bill Clinton *is* an old whore....

I fuck a male whore everytime I hop in bed with my ex-boyfriend, why would I want to pay for it when 99.9% of all women has access to some asshole that can't keep it in his pants?

Quasi-related to this topic: How great is that Bobbie Gentry song, "Fancy"? The Reba one is OKAY but Bobbie's is a lot more powerful. Damn, that song rules.

Interesting article. But I think she is sadly mistaken, and not many women at all will pay to get laid by a stranger. Just because she would, it does not follow that there must be many other women out there who would. For a variety of reasons, I don't believe it will play out. But good luck to her! I agree that there shoudl be the option for women, as long as men have it.

Call me old-school...but no, I don't think selling sex is awesome. Heidi could have impressive business skills for all I know, but that doesn't make what she does/did ok.

All sex workers are wise? Um, after being in the business from 18 to 25, all up and down the strip club spectrum from gowns to hell-pits, I must say, Uhmmmm. No.

I guess Heidi's okay, but there's something very off-putting about her. Partly, what happened that you had your very discreetly run business go ker-flooey and get all this publicity and criminal charges to boot?

Also, I rarely, if ever, buy any sex worker's "I've got it all under control because I'm cool like that" public persona. Just my own hard-won skepticism.

I thought she was opening a line of laundry mats. Or is that Amy Fisher? (I know they have nothing in common.) Also, I think Heidi is awesome - but I think she is awesome because she was the madame. Doesn't that make her a different caste of "sex worker"? Isn't madame, like, the executive level? And yes, I would fuck a male whore, but, like @MissSamAdams: above, why oh why would I need to? Men have a little something to learn about the milk for free, buying the cow, et cetera.

I interviewed sex workers across Asia for my novel and even in their 3rd? 4th? language they had a wealth of wisdom to pass on. If you're used to seeing men with their pants round their ankles, you're unlikely to fall for the bullshit they come out with when they're dressed. That said, the life of a sex worker (apart from a privileged few) is pretty icky. Next time you're in a strip club just look at the grot that's smeared down the poles from the girl before.

@PantyWaist: Don't you think that women will go out to Las Vegas on vacation and say to one another "you know, Heidi Fleiss's whore house is just a couple hours down the road, wanna take a road trip?" What happens in Vegas...

As a former stripper who is so freshly out of the business I have no choice but to hate, I am pretty stuck on the notion that sex workers are all fucked up idiots with even more fucked up values-- it's like that Vice article, "Being A Whore In 2004" or whatevs.

But Heidi Fleiss is amazing. Another stripper once loaned a copy of 'The Player's Handbook' to me and it was pretty much like, "Oh dude-- wise" the whole way through.

PS-- Thank God for the anonymity of the internet.

This misses the point. Maybe sex workers are "some of the wisest bitches in the country" (seriously, when is using bitches to talk about other women going to stop being cute? also--never thought they were stupid), but a lot of them also ended up in that line of work because forces in their lives--often times out of their hands--forced them to make that decision for work. And then there are the pimps and madams who take advantage of these women who have found themselves in tough situations--how many of the women who worked/will work for Heidi Fleiss have college degrees and left stable jobs and stable homes to work for her? I don't know enough about Heidi Fleiss to say how much she does or doesn't support these women (or will in her future business endeavor)--does she pay fairly, offer health insurance, make sure that her women get regular gyn exams, have systems in place where her employees know when and where to get help when they find themselves in situations out of their control)--but I know that some people in her position abuse the sex workers who work for them, and many of these women feel trapped. Maybe she is really nice and cool and funny and says smart things, but what's more important to me is what she does and how she does/or does not contribute to the world--not what she says or by how "wise" she is. I try to understand--and I see valid points--in ways that sex workers can be empowered in their own way, and many of them are. But at the end of the day, it's hard for me to buy it and I think that if a lot of these women had had other valid options, they wouldn't have gone the sex worker route. So Heidi Fleiss is an amazing hustler--but let's not pretend that the route she took to get there didn't hurt a lot of people on the way, inadvertently or not, and let's not gloss up what it means to be an "amazing hustler" and forget the human aspect of her line of work. I'd be more interested in hearing from the women who worked for her.

Lifetime Spot Porn? I just threw up a little.

Small rant: I'm from Nevada and I have to say this: people assume prostitution is legal in the whole damn state (and especially in Las Vegas, which is where I live). It's not. It gets very old being asked all the time where all the "hookers" are.

Feminists rarely have a healthy outlook on prostitution: either it is viewed as this deplorably 100% exploitation of unwilling women by the patriarchy, or it's this inherently magical, wonderful, fulfilling career peopled entirely by the sage warrior goddesses who love their woman selves that has been twisted by the patriarchy. The truth is somewhere in between closer, I think, to the former, though I am all for legalized prostitution and view sex work as just as valid as any other ware you can peddle. There is nothing glorious about fucking for cash, ladies. That said, there is nothing inherently wrong with it, either. I'd rather be a hooker than, say, a baby seal clubber, or something. i think there are laws that not only should but HAVE to be made for the protection of these men and women.

Oh, and a male prostitute? No. And I don't think women are the key demographic in a boy whorehouse...

@LaComtesse: Whore or baby seal clubber? LOL. I have much more respect for the hookers than those brutes who smash poor baby seals.

@LaComtesse: Seconded.
Except I would get a male hooker, because if my Harlequin romance novels are correct, after I've hired him to attend some wedding with me (where he no doubt romanced my entire family),we'll have drunkenly awesome sex and not speak for two years, but meet again and fall in love 'n junk.

@LaComtesse: I know what you mean, but I think you may be generalising the term "feminist" here. [tomatonation.com]

@ilikenoise: No wait, ignore that comment, I sound like a jerk.

@LaComtesse: There is nothing glorious about fucking for cash, ladies.

Your post is dead on. If you think about it, women that fuck for a living are often fucking people who can't get laid otherwise. Not exactly a hot demographic. We should thank an honor these men and women who fuck the unfuckable! God knows most of us wouldn't do it.

It's like the tagline from Dirty Jobs: "Doing the jobs that make civilized life possible for the rest of us."

[dsc.discovery.com]

Yep! That's what they do!

1. anyone who works with people in intimate ways is usually pretty wise, including delightful old whores like heidi. she sounds similar to some hospice workers i know.
2. i'd be more likely to hire a female sex worker but i would hire a male sex worker too, if i found one i was attracted to and wanted no strings sex and if it was in a setting where i didn't think he might secretly be a rapist or killer.

@hortense: um, I loved that movie.

I would never pay for sex, but I like the idea of making the man think that he isn't paying for sex. I mean, look at Craigslist, and there are so many "one-night dinner invitations." Clearly the guy thinks he's gonna take you out to dinner, a play, then bang you as a reward. At least this puts the power in your hands. Although, no reason a woman couldn't post a similar Craigslist ad if she wanted to.

I do, and I would.

@ilikenoise: I mean what I said and I said what I mean; a feminist's faithful 100% percent... or something like that. Ha! No, I do use the term feminist as it is intended here. i identify as such and appreciate your promulgation of the actual definition.

Would the male whores be trained in the fine arts of kitty licking, booty licking and suchlike? Because otherwise, I agree with the other posters who've pointed out that it's just not that hard to find dudes, even hot dudes, who'll put their pants down.

@1edyfirel: YES. What you said.

I understand that both strippers and hookers fall under the "sex worker" umbrella, but I think of them quite differently. I've never worked in the industry, but I've been paid for sex in the past. I was, admittedly, at a very self-destructive point in my life. But I always felt in control. Strangely enough, if I think of stripping, I imagine that I would feel more objectified.

@Archetype: I LOT of strippers also hook.

@rose0red: I mean A lot of strippers also hook.

@rose0red: I know. I was just thinking out loud....I don't even understand my logic.

@Susan B.: you look like and are a douche. Not you of course - that whole 1st thing.

Re: the manwhore thing. Sure. I think he'd have to be freakin dipped in latex before I could relax and get into it but a real no strings fuck. Sounds good to me!

it's not hard to get decent dudes NOW, but what about when i'm 50+? not ruling this out.

@hatey: I am so sorry honey. Have a virtual cuppa. U.

I think it's cool that she's going for parity. The day I see Beckham's penis (and similar ads) posted as ubiquitously as T&A shots, the day I see as many male strip joints as female strip joints, the day I see as much porn catering to women as to men, and the day I see men selling sex to women as much as women sell sex to men, I will believe the balance of power is, well, more balanced.

From what I've read, she's running a tight business and has been VERY picky and has high standards and makes them prove their..uh..skills before hiring. They get tested for STDs often and since they're getting paid there's a lot more inc